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Old 04-24-2013, 12:18 PM   #1
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2000 or 2001

Looking at two Boxsters. A 2000 with 58k miles, privately owned with good maint records, oil changes every year, 3-4k miles. Original clutch, early build, so might be dual row IMS (?). No real options, very good overall condition. Other car is 2001 with 30k miles at Porsche dealer. Litronics and sport package. Carfac shows regular service.

The 2000 probably needs tires due to age, otherwise seems to be up to date on service, maybe brake fluid flush.

How much of a price increase would be expected for the lower mile with litronics 2001 command over the 2000.

Obviously would get PPI for whichever car I decide to purchase.

I have read most of the posts and links and have found them helpful

Thanks

Len
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:12 PM   #2
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I love early pre S Boxsters with manual transmissions.. A true drivers car. Any box is great. Depends of what you want it for I guess.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:23 PM   #3
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Thanks, yes I like the simplicity of the early cars. I am looking to daily drive in LA, I don't have a horrible commute so would not be in stop and go traffic. Would probably put 7500 miles a year on or so. Have other 4 door cars to drive in a pinch, but this would be my normal daily driver.

I have two excellent independent mechanics close by and a dealer not too far away, and would probably do minor things like oil changes myself

Len
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:45 PM   #4
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The extra power of the 3.2 is handy for highway merging and overtaking slower cars in passing lane. The later 986 S's got a little heavy in weight so the earlier S's are better in this regard. Also, the 3.2 have thicker cylinder walls, an upgrade that didn't make into even the 3.4 996 Carrera -- meanwhile 2.5 Boxsters have probably the most D-chunk failures, particularly those driven lightly. D-chunk failure is nearly non-existent in 3.2 engines. So a IMS dual row S (2000) is probably the best value. Single row IMS S (2001-2004) will cost a bit more to upgrade the IMS if you want the LN Solution kit.
Also, The delta on price is not significant enough to opt for the non-S engines in my opinion. You also get the Carrera brakes, which are the absolute best.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:45 PM   #5
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I recommend that you access the car pricing web sites (New Cars, Used Cars, Car Reviews & Car Prices | Edmunds.com, N.A.D.A. Home Page, Official Kelley Blue Book New Car and Used Car Prices and Values) and put in the data and see what the price difference is. When I was searching for my car, I put all the data on one spreadsheet and it was very useful. I found that there was some variation between the sites and some things like the condition of the car are subjective. That said, you should be able to develop a pretty tight range for the price difference.

The fact that one is being sold retail will naturally increase the price. However, the 2001 will give you a three-spoke steering wheel and a headliner in addition to the options you mentioned.

On the other hand, it sounds like the 2000 is going to be less prone to IMS failure according to recent revelations in the class action lawsuit.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:13 PM   #6
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I guess if it's just between these two, pick the tranny you like. I like the manual which is about .7 faster from 0-60. Keep in mind the three spoke steering wheels would run you about $700-900 as an upgrade, and the 01's headliner is nice. Plus lower mileage, is essentially, a newer feeling car.
I actually would save up for the '03 model, where more significant changes were made in the body, glass rear window, more engine output, etc.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:42 PM   #7
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Thanks for the feedback. Both cars are 5 speeds. I used the three pricing websites and got difference in price between $800 (Edmunds) to something like $3500 (KBB).

I am probably obsessing more than I should, no real right or wrong answer. My wife says I have car ADD

There is also a nice looking 2001 S in my desired price range with 60k miles.

Thanks again for the input

Len
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:49 PM   #8
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I am probably obsessing more than I should
LOL! Most anyone that joins a forum that focuses on one car is obsessing. Welcome to the club!
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:09 AM   #9
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LOL! Most anyone that joins a forum that focuses on one car is obsessing. Welcome to the club!

YES! Obsessing is the Porsche owners code !!!
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:09 AM   #10
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LenA, when you say that the 2000 has essentially no options, does that mean:

1. no windstop? 2. the 16 inch base wheels and tires? 3. no cruise control? If so, you should keep in mind that:
- the windstop is a rather expensive retrofit and, if you intend to drive it with the top down at speeds over 50 MPH, one that you will want to do.
- very few 2000 Base Boxsters came with the standard 16 inch wheels and tires. While a matter of taste, obviously, many do not like the look of the base wheels and certainly, the 17 inch seem to fill the wheel-well openings better. More importantly, there is a noticeable difference in handling (compare the two on the road at speed as the suspension on a 2000 and 2001 base will be identical).
- if you plan to use it as a daily driver, I assume that will include some longer trips and do you really want a car without cruise control?

In addition, of course, depending upon the brand, new tires are not an inexpensive item. The 2001 with the sport package will have all of these features and, I gather, no need for tire replacement. It also has half the mileage - important when you are considering items like the water pump, serpentine belt, AOS, coolant expansion tank, etc.. My only real concern about the 2001 is that you are getting no service records. An early 2000 (and to be sure, check the engine serial number) with a dual-row bearing and oil changes every 3 - 4000 miles is going to be the least likely candidate for IMS bearing failure. Considering that, according to Porsche 'much less than 1%' of all the double-rows have failed regardless of mileage and service history, you should be able to confidently wait for the eventual clutch replacement before upgrading the IMS bearing. With the 2001, with an overall failure rate of 8-10% and the lack of information concerning oil changes (seemingly one of the key issues in IMS bearing failure), the risks would obviously be much higher.

Other things to consider? Which has the colour scheme that you prefer - let's face it, if you are going to be living with the car for awhile, it is important. Do you care if it has the 3 spoke steering wheel? Some actually prefer the 4 spoke in spite of the lack of a metal center crest as the overall shape goes back to the original 901 design (prototype 911) in 1963: this is, afterall, a car with styling cues from Porsche's early days. However, if you really prefer the beefier 3 spoke wheel, then that is another check in favor of the 2001.

The 2001 does get the virtually useless cupholders and, as a result, moved the HVAC controls behind the shifter. Not a huge thing - just a rare intstance when Porsche turned good into bad ergonomics in exchange for something the should be low on the list for a sportscar. Also take care in using the cupholders - they allow any spilled fluids to drip down onto the stereo and electronic HVAC controls.

In 2001 Porsche also inexplicably moved the digital speedometer from the bottom of the tach to the bottom of the speedometer. Again, no big thing, although it is much more convenient to be able to see both speed and revs with a single glance at a single instrument. The only real upgrade, IMO, in 2001 was the lined top. While it reduces interior noise (although not by as much as you might think - drive both with the top up), it also reduces headroom slightly, gives the interior a slightly more enclosed feel and adds a little weight up high.

Pricing? Hard to say, but from a negotiating standpoint, I would think that the 2001 should be worth at least $3000 more than the 2000 based upon: 1. newer model year (mostly a matter of perception) 2. mileage (it has 1/2 the mileage of the 2000), 3. the need for new tires on the 2000 and 4. the lack of options on the 2000. Yes, the 2000 has a much bettter prognosis re: the IMS bearing, but many potential buyers will be unaware of this. Which should you buy? I can't say, but if you are apt to worry about the IMS bearing, then you may want to upgrade the bearing on the 2001 immediately. That and a new clutch will likely set you back about $3000.00.


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Old 04-25-2013, 07:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH1990 View Post
The fact that one is being sold retail will naturally increase the price. However, the 2001 will give you a three-spoke steering wheel and a headliner in addition to the options you mentioned.

On the other hand, it sounds like the 2000 is going to be less prone to IMS failure according to recent revelations in the class action lawsuit.
3 spoke steering came with 2000. My S came with a headliner, not sure if that's the case on the standard cars.

2000 is not a guarantee for a dual row bearing. You won't know for sure unless you take down the trans and take a peek in there.

Overall, the base has probably a nicer feeling gear box being that the gearing is better suited for a five than a six, actually much better suited, but all else imho heavily favors the S as being a better value in the second hand market. I think that rule applies to all Porsches not just the Boxster. It seems to me that Porsche take some short cuts with the base models that are not worth the discount once depreciation is baked in.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:03 PM   #12
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According to the 2000 Boxster sales brochure, the headliner and 3-spoke steering wheel were standard on the S. The headliner does not appear to be available for the base model, but the 3-spoke wheel was available in one of the interior packages.

My 2000 did not have a headliner (until I installed a top from a 2004) and it has a 4-spoke wheel.
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Old 04-26-2013, 03:54 AM   #13
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Actually perfectlap, the single-row bearing was not introduced until later in the production run of the 2000 model. If yours has an engine number prior to M651 1252 for the 2.7 and M671 11238 for the 3.2, then unless your engine was torn down and had a shaft replacement after it was produced, you have the dual-row bearing. Subsequent to those engine numbers, some 2.7 and 3.2's still got the dual row bearing, but you will have to inspect to find out.

The OP was referring to base Bpxsters and as Kevin confirms, the 3 spoke wheel and lined top were introduced in the 2000 S, but not in the 2.7 until 2001.

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