04-17-2013, 04:29 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis, In.
Posts: 160
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How long does it take once an IMS starts to go?
I change my oil every 2500-3000 miles. Check oil pan, plug and cut open filter to look for signs of IMS failure, bits o' water pump impeller etc. If all is clean and in the clear, is it possible that the IMS could completely fail by the next oil change? Anyone have any ideas on duration of failure?
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1998 986 with ladder racks.
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04-17-2013, 04:35 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 598
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Paint boy, I doubt there is any hard and fast rule but if you are doing oil changes every 3000 miles, I can't imagine it would go from no metal particles to a complete failure in that short a period - especially since you have a dual-row IMS bearing.
Brad
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04-17-2013, 05:10 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Guelph, ON
Posts: 981
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If there's bits of water pump impeller in your oil filter you're in bigger trouble than you thought... LOL The only plastic bits you will likely find in the oil are chain guide/tensioner material...
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Previously owned:
2000 Boxster S 3.2 Ocean Blue / 1974 911 Targa Silver
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04-17-2013, 05:24 AM
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#4
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Homeboy981
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintboy
I change my oil every 2500-3000 miles. Check oil pan, plug and cut open filter to look for signs of IMS failure, bits o' water pump impeller etc. If all is clean and in the clear, is it possible that the IMS could completely fail by the next oil change? Anyone have any ideas on duration of failure?
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In my case, single row, there were no metal fragments in the oil. I cut my filter open every time too. No sign of the doom that loomed! Double row IMS bearings may be more durable.
There was only ONE DROP of oil (that turned out to be from a leaky RMS).....and I had a Stage 2 failure in the IMS bearing! Fortunately, the IMS bore was not effected and a new Casper IMS bearing is installed without incident (I have an extra LNE Single Row setup, if interested-PM me).
I am not trying to scare anyone or fear monger. My IMS gave virtually NO WARNING signs that it was about to croak! I certainly have no financial ties to IMS bearing makers. But you should KNOW what you are up against. Just change the darn thing when you do your clutch, and get your clutch done sooner rather than later.
My car was saved with approximately 3k miles before the engine dis-assembled itself! That is ONE oil change AWAY from having had parts to sell instead of advice to impart.
You do what is best for you. It was NOT an easy job, as some instructions indicate. I simply made myself a promise that IF ANY OIL LEAKED, I was going in! Glad I did. Even though, as it turned out, it was unrelated. Do what helps you sleep at night. A word of advice would be to seriously consider which set of IMS installation instructions you use. There are a few out there, I found Meir's instructions to be the most complete and right most of the time! There are still a few things I would add. Again, PM with ???s.
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2002 Porsche Boxtser S - Silver & Chrome - Died from IMS failure AFTER IMS was replaced!
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04-17-2013, 05:29 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Foster City CA
Posts: 1,099
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There are no guarantees. An IMS can fail between oil changes. If you're concerned, install an IMS Guardian. It may give you an early enough warning.
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04-17-2013, 06:59 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,709
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IMS failure is not the only issue with the bearing. Another forum member pointed out something I hadn't thought about before in that a dual row bearing has twice the amount of ferrous material which means the trade off for more integrity comes with more contamination. Many people hold off replacing the bearing to save a few hundred bucks in getting more life out of their clutch but don't consider that the bearing may be past their sell by date. Bumping up the IMS swap, even with just another factory bearing and not the ceramics, not only mitigates the contamination it also provides full utility of a new clutch which you're going to have to replace at some point anyway. A serviceable bearing like that on the 99-05 Boxsters should be replaced as a wear item even though the factory wanted us to believe otherwise.
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GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW
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04-18-2013, 08:27 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 598
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Perfectlap, you would only get more contamination from a dual-row bearing if it is failing - something it does much less often than a single-row (less than 1% versus 8-10%). Nevertheless, you and Homeboy make a strong case for replacing the single-row bearing as a prophylactic measure.
Perfectlap also makes a good point regarding the use of a replacement factory bearing, especially for the dual-row. While LN produce a ceramic dual-row bearing, which at least in theory (and I suspect in reality) is an upgrade, the Pelican parts 'upgraded' bearing for the dual-row is actually a single-row with a spacer. In otherwords, you are downgrading from dual to a single row with its much higher likelihood of failure. Rather than use it, surely it makes sense to replace with the factory original part which has proven to be quite reliable over a large number of years (the last of the dual-rows was manufactured some 12 years ago and yet less than 1% have failed).
Brad
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04-18-2013, 09:05 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southernstar
Rather than use it, surely it makes sense to replace with the factory original part which has proven to be quite reliable over a large number of years (the last of the dual-rows was manufactured some 12 years ago and yet less than 1% have failed).
Brad
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Only problem is that you cannot get an OEM serviceable bearing by itself (remember, Porsche still says you cannot change the IMS bearings in the 2004 and earlier cars without splitting the cases), plus the only replacement part available is the OEM "final solution" non serviceable bearing, which comes in a new shaft for north of $1K.
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“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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04-18-2013, 10:56 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 598
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Sorry, I wasn't aware that Porsche will not sell the IMS bearing alone. Having said that, if your current car has a dual-row bearing, why can't someone purchase the dual row IMS Retrofit from LN Engineering for $649.00? As opposed to the bearing from Pelican, it is a dual-row and has the advantage of ceramic bearings.
Brad
Last edited by southernstar; 04-18-2013 at 10:57 AM.
Reason: sp
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04-18-2013, 11:17 AM
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#10
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Homeboy981
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 663
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You can purchase a dual or single row kit from Casper, for the same price of $323, I believe.
__________________
2002 Porsche Boxtser S - Silver & Chrome - Died from IMS failure AFTER IMS was replaced!
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04-18-2013, 11:34 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 598
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Sorry Homeboy, but do you have a link for the Casper Labs IMS bearings?
Brad
Last edited by southernstar; 04-18-2013 at 12:11 PM.
Reason: sp
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04-18-2013, 11:58 AM
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#12
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Medicated Open-Air Driver
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 46
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While we're talking about the IMS issue, I have a question that I hope somebody can answer. In the late production 2005 through 2008 987's, Porsche installed a bearing that is not accessible without a total engine teardown. This bearing is supposed to be larger than all the other bearings that they have used in the past. What does this mean? Is is a single or dual row? Is it sealed? What does "larger" mean?
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04-18-2013, 01:58 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBoxster
While we're talking about the IMS issue, I have a question that I hope somebody can answer. In the late production 2005 through 2008 987's, Porsche installed a bearing that is not accessible without a total engine teardown. This bearing is supposed to be larger than all the other bearings that they have used in the past. What does this mean? Is is a single or dual row? Is it sealed? What does "larger" mean?
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It is sealed, a dual row, and slightly larger in outside diameter so it will not fit through the opening in the rear of the cases. And, yes, it still fails.
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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04-18-2013, 03:19 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
It is sealed, a dual row, and slightly larger in outside diameter so it will not fit through the opening in the rear of the cases. And, yes, it still fails.
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Well there's something I didn't know - I was under the impression that Porsche fitted a larger SINGLE row bearing after 2005, right up to the 2009 upgrade ....
__________________
2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley.
2001 MV Agusta F4.
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04-18-2013, 03:34 PM
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#15
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Medicated Open-Air Driver
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
It is sealed, a dual row, and slightly larger in outside diameter so it will not fit through the opening in the rear of the cases. And, yes, it still fails.
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Thanks for the info. Just to stretch the issue....how many failures have you dealt with or her about with this last bearing design? I'm just wondering, in your professional opinion, if you think it is as prevalent as past designs or in a very small category (ie:<1%)?? Thx!
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04-18-2013, 04:23 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Southern New jersey
Posts: 1,054
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From what I've read, the larger bearing should have failure rate similar to the double row bearings. Though that information may be worth exactly what you paid for it!
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04-18-2013, 05:38 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBoxster
Thanks for the info. Just to stretch the issue....how many failures have you dealt with or her about with this last bearing design? I'm just wondering, in your professional opinion, if you think it is as prevalent as past designs or in a very small category (ie:<1%)?? Thx!
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We have personally seen a few, but the actual percentage is very hard to get a handle on. But if a couple die, it is a fair conjecture that there are more....
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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04-19-2013, 04:26 AM
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#18
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Medicated Open-Air Driver
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
We have personally seen a few, but the actual percentage is very hard to get a handle on. But if a couple die, it is a fair conjecture that there are more....
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Thanks for the feedback....one last question. Since you have seen a few failures already in this last design, besides the outer bearing diameter being a little larger so that it can't fit threw (hence the total engine teardown) my question is are the actual bearings larger in this dual row design than previous dual row IMS bearings? Are they ceramic? Did the seal dissolve? Thanks for the help!
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04-19-2013, 04:39 AM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,261
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They are slightly larger in outside diameter, dual row, and all steel; exactly like all the other designs used. In some cases, the seal appeared intact, but the bearing was full of oil, in other cases the seal had failed (begun to break up).
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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04-19-2013, 06:54 AM
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#20
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Medicated Open-Air Driver
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
They are slightly larger in outside diameter, dual row, and all steel; exactly like all the other designs used. In some cases, the seal appeared intact, but the bearing was full of oil, in other cases the seal had failed (begun to break up).
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Thanks for taking the time to reply!
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