Deconstructing LNE IMS Installation Failure

[Homeboy981]

I wanted to re-post this under a new thread so it does NOT get lost….

Feeling like I should buy a Lottery ticket - after catching the IMS bearing BEFORE IT ACTUALLY DIED I thought it would be a good day to INSTALL the new LNE IMS bearing!

I tried to install the LN Engineering bearing and IT FAILED in a way NO ONE HAS SEEN BEFORE!!! Lucky me, pioneering new ground!

The LNE bearing, where the bearing race is press-fit onto the post came off during installation!!! I followed the instructions to the letter - maybe too close! Where is says, "INSTALL NUT FINGER TIGHT ONLY" onto the installation tool….is just NOT descriptive enough! IT DOES NOT MENTION IT NEEDS TO BE FULLY SEATED AGAINST THE TOOL. I believe that is where this installation went bad (although I did not know it at the time).

Apparently, the threads were marred or something which caused the nut to NOT SEAT ALL THE WAY DOWN ON THE INSTALLATION TOOL and it POPPED the press fit APART!!!

I was happily installing my NEW, supposedly better, bearing…I was ALMOST ALL THE WAY IN, when after tapping it, the installation tool moved a little to the side, it seemed to have come loose. WTF!

I backed off the installation tool and it went LIMP (and so did I). The post and bearing were now IN 2 PIECES!!

I phoned LNE for help right away (since the bearing was thawing out in the bore) NO ONE COULD HELP - went through 3 people! I was told to "send an email that's all we can do - no one here has experience with the installation". What? No installation experience?

I am not entirely sure this was NOT A GOOD BEARING either. I mean, who would think to check the press fit? I looked for rust, out of roundness (of the bearing), and proper tolerances - all TIPS I picked up from this Forum about LNE failures.

Well, add CHECKING THE PRESS FIT TO THE LIST of ways this bearing can fail! I have my doubts IF LNE's QC Department didn't fail me like their phone support did! So here is another surprise…NO INSTALLATION HELP FROM LNE IF YOU RUN INTO A PROBLEM EITHER! They can help you order - not INSTALL! Very dissatisfied at this point with them. I AM SICK ABOUT THIS!

Now I am stuck. So I called John, Boxster guru at Boardwalk Porsche, he said he had never seen a failure like that either. But that I could, "Fish out the bolt and try to 'press fit' it in there using the install tool". There was NO WAY to remove the bearing at this point. I applied as much force as I could but I am unsure IF it is all the way popped back in.

Hard to explain but now I have the bearing fully seated, the threaded press fit post is questionable, it may NOT BE IN ALL THE WAY. I have the IMS cover on and have approx. a ¼" of thread showing…is that how much is supposed to be protruding from the outside of the IMS cover?

The car will remain on lock down until this gets solved….Needless to say my opinion of LNE plummeted. Just wanted to share my experience with them and I must say I am surprised…maybe you will consider this next time you are presented with a similar decision.

I have put many hours and tons of money into this car. It is more than a car to me...I miss my friend on jack stands!

[dagdisco03]

Do you have any pictures of what you are describing? Something sounds way off here. Press fit post? The LNE tools come with a thing that would allow you to remove the bearing with a broken center stud by pushing the stud into the IMS shaft and then sliding this thing in through the open hole and feeding a stud in to attach the extractor. To insert the the bearing you should be only touching the outer race of the bearing to hammer it in. The center stud should have the nut put on hand tight to keep it from falling into the IMS shaft as you are tapping the outer race in. It's not used for the install in any other way. I have nothing to do with LNE but I did this project last year and can't figure out what you were doing from what you posted.

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by dagdisco03

Do you have any pictures of what you are describing? Something sounds way off here. Press fit post? The LNE tools come with a thing that would allow you to remove the bearing with a broken center stud by pushing the stud into the IMS shaft and then sliding this thing in through the open hole and feeding a stud in to attach the extractor. To insert the the bearing you should be only touching the outer race of the bearing to hammer it in. The center stud should have the nut put on hand tight to keep it from falling into the IMS shaft as you are tapping the outer race in. It's not used for the install in any other way. I have nothing to do with LNE but I did this project last year and can't figure out what you were doing from what you posted.

This..............

Post Pictures of your issue. When I installed my LN IMS Bearing 3 years ago I spoke to Charles from LN along with Dean at Flat 6 Innovations several times over the phone, they were all very patient and helpful. Before slamming LNE I'd make sure you were performing the install correctly, good luck.

[DFW02S]

Originally Posted by coreseller

This..............
Post Pictures of your issue. When I installed my LN IMS Bearing 3 years ago I spoke to Charles from LN along with Dean at Flat 6 Innovations several times over the phone, they were all very patient and helpful. Before slamming LNE I'd make sure you were performing the install correctly, good luck.

Doesn't sound like Charles was there. His point of getting no help from LNE was fairly presented, even if installation technique was an issue.

[Flavor 987S]

Charles is a great guy. I'm sure he'll make this right. Send him an email, he's very responsive:

charles@lnengineering.com

[coreseller]

My guess is that he will soon hear from someone at LNE, if not Jake will probably chime in shortly.

In Homeboy's defense....I remember how nervous / uptight I was during the install, especially since it was a relatively new procedure.

[Homeboy981]

30 minutes on the phone and NO JOY! NO ONE WITH KNOWLEDGE on parts sold! A direct quote form the rep was, "There is no one here that has installation knowledge." Meanwhile, my bearing was thawing in the bore.

JUST THE FACTS, guys. I am not trying to slam LNE either…they were SUPPOSED to be my savior. Turns out, not, so far.

Do with the information what you will. You can ignore it - just like the IMS issues. Will it be a problem for you? Dunno.

My car is still jacked up either way! I have better than average mechanical abilities - so maybe this serves as a warning to others who are NOT as inclined.

BTW, the instructions ARE NOT CORRECT! Is should specificity that the bearing MUST BE in DIRECT CONTACT WITH INSTALLATION TOOL - not just "finger tight". Maybe there was a burr on the threading. It was NOT cross threaded. And apparently went most of way on there. Maybe LNE can modify the instructions to eliminate future problems now. Still, it does not put my car back together!

These problems are some things I wish I had know prior to installation!

Worse than the $650 down the tubes is the car is most likely junk now. Has anyone pulled an LNE ceramic bearing out? The thread sizes DO NOT FIT the current extraction tool either. Ask me how I know.

[coreseller]

I know you're upset but I doubt the car is junk. I suggest you walk away from the situation for awhile and settle down and reassess, it will get worked out eventually. For some reason or another I remember Jake posting something years back about a method to remove the outer bearing race using a puller of sorts, think of an inverted gear puller with the teeth pointing outward. Don't worry Homeboy, it will get worked out.

[Homeboy981]

Here is what it looks like now. Not sure IF the press fit portion of the bearing is properly in place.



Is this the NORMAL amount of stud showing?

[Homeboy981]

Originally Posted by coreseller

I know you're upset but I doubt the car is junk. I suggest you walk away from the situation for awhile and settle down and reassess, it will get worked out eventually. For some reason or another I remember Jake posting something years back about a method to remove the outer bearing race using a puller of sorts, think of an inverted gear puller with the teeth pointing outward. Don't worry Homeboy, it will get worked out.

Good advice about calming down. Pretty up in the air now….so is my friend! At least you have a dog.

Still haven't heard from LNE tho. Left a message. Will send an email too. I am doing my part but am none too happy at this point.

[Eric G]

Mark, please look at the PM I just sent you.

[coreseller]

Sent you one also.

[seningen]

Originally Posted by Homeboy981

Here is what it looks like now. Not sure IF the press fit portion of the bearing is properly in place.



Is this the NORMAL amount of stud showing?

I can't tell you if that is in correctly or not -- specifically depth wise.

Several years ago I know while my mech and I were installing a LNE kit
we (probably me :-) got it a tad cockeyed. and it would not insert completely.
Tight access had me strike it at little off kilter.

We fashioned up a puller with a piece that would fit the LNE bolt.
It came out easily and we were able to reinstall with no issues.

I'm sure a machine shop could fashion you up such a piece if
you have the specs of the LNE bolt and the bolt on the end of the puller.

Note this is the original extraction/insertion tool -- I believe the methods
have changed. My mechanic was one of the early indy's to perform the service.
So I don't know if the newer tools are the same or not.

Mike

[ilikeching]

maybe this helps, there are some video on youtube how install/change IMS.



Flintworks IMS Retrofit on a Porsche Boxster - YouTube

[cnavarro]

Here are the facts.
Customer purchased the bearing last December and only now getting around to doing the install. He called after hours and got our answering service. Haste makes waste. Going on a forum and stirring up **************** and only then sending me an email about this thread. Not the way to go about getting help, especially when on the instructions it clearly states NO SUPPORT for do-it-yourself installations.
First thing this morning when we got in, one of my staffers, George, called Mark about the same time that I got his email. He was advised by George that he needed to pull the bearing using the EZ-out tool, which the he did not have. Once removed, the bearing cannot be re-installed. A new bearing must be installed, which must be purchased from us. If upon inspection of the first bearing we find that there is something we did wrong, we will refund the price of the bearing and required tool, which Mark did not take us up on.
I’m sorry, but there are reasons why we don’t recommend do it yourself installations, namely for instances like above, and even more so why I don’t want to provide help anymore to people.

[Jake Raby]

The interesting part is the stud was not installed by LN in the early days of these retrofit kits and the installer was responsible for the task. The post and bearing are two pieces.

You have not experienced any sort of "failure" based on my direct experience with these bearings that began the day that the product was conceived.

[Homeboy981]

10:04 AM CST - Just spoke to George at LNE.

Hard to believe they run a business like this. Basically, I am to blame for installation, period. I assumed ALL RISKS for NOT BEING A PORSCHE WORKSHOP AND PREVIOUSLY INSTALLING SAID BEARING!!! They are responsible FOR NOTHING…not EVEN THE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS THEY PRODUCE!!

AND….

I HAVE TO BUY THEIR TOOL TO REMOVE THE FAILED BEARING!! What?

No offer of help or restitution was made except that, "We will look at our bearing once you get it out and send it to us, of course you need to order OUR PART to extract it. If, at our SOLE DISCRETION, WE FEEL it is bad, we will refund you." Really? :chicken:

"Thousands of installations have been done and no one has had a problem", was what he told me originally.

Then he changed to, "We even have Porsche mechanics call us on the installations they have a problem with as they may not have done it before. But they NEVER have a problem." Must be why they are calling, huh?

"This is why we do not like to sell to individuals with QUESTIONABLE MECHANICAL EXPERIENCE". Could not believe he had the gall to say that! Everyone on this board, except a few, fall into THIS DESCRIPTION!

Insulting my intelligence, my mechanical ability AND then asking me for more money?

George to you and LN Engineering, I say, "Thinking I am stupid and insulting me will NOT help anyone speak good of your company and may be your undoing as I will tell every member about my experience at your hand. All the North Texas Boxster people will know how I (or ANYONE on this Board) have been or will be treated by your company AND how this was TOTALLY AVOIDABLE!" Your Customer Service skills are severely lacking.

Funny LNE DID NOT have a problem taking my money.

And yes, LN Engineering is responsible for instructions THEY PRODUCE, whether he admits it or not. So, KNOW THE LNE INSTRUCTIONS ARE NOT CORRECT. And, if they cannot even produce good instructions - kind of makes you wonder about other things coming from them?

SO BE WARNED FUTURE IMS people who DO NOT to take it to a shop….you ARE BEING ABANDONED by LNE! So why do we have the Forum exactly? Oh, that's right, for DIYs. I guess LNE SHOULD NOT be talked about here!

Starting to sound like they have more failures than they would lead you to believe…maybe I'll go with another brand.

[cnavarro]

I'll add that I also spoke to John at Boardwalk and he believes this was an installation issue. I'll leave it at that.

[Homeboy981]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

Here are the facts.
Customer purchased the bearing last December and only now getting around to doing the install.

* It is called PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE for a reason. I knew I was going to doing it with my clutch.

Originally Posted by cnavarro

He called after hours and got our answering service. Haste makes waste. Going on a forum and stirring up **************** and only then sending me an email about this thread. Not the way to go about getting help, especially when on the instructions it clearly states NO SUPPORT for do-it-yourself installations.

* Not a way to get support, huh? I haven't seen ANY SUPPORT and YOU SAY you don't provide SUPPORT. Kind of contradicting yourself aren't you?

Further, as far as stirring it up, you are doing well enough with that. I had a call in to you for escalation. Left a message with the staff and on the answering machine (answering service). So don't act like you didn't know until I posted.

I posted AFTER NO RESULTS. Wait, there STILL ARE NO RESULTS!

Originally Posted by cnavarro

A new bearing must be installed, which must be purchased from us. If upon inspection of the first bearing we find that there is something we did wrong, we will refund the price of the bearing and required tool, which Mark did not take us up on.

* YUUP! Have serious questions about you guys. Not sure I want more of my dollars going to you. I have found the ONLY THING some people understand…is to take your business elsewhere!

Originally Posted by cnavarro

and even more so why I don’t want to provide help anymore to people.

* Did I miss the help? Never got any. I got insulted, not sure that helped. Have asked several questions, so far, if you are keeping score at home….ZERO answers! Be prepared as this COULD BE YOU!

Your getting the bearing back…

[Homeboy981]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

I'll add that I also spoke to John at Boardwalk and he believes this was an installation issue. I'll leave it at that.

Definitely an installation issue…by following YOUR INSTRUCTIONS!

If that is ALL you have is blame my money and my time can be welcomed elsewhere.

A customer who is satisfied may tell a few people but one who has been mistreated will tell many!