has Porsche let us down?
 

Having been a victim of the dreaded IMS bearing failure at 46000 miles and out $20K to buy a new engine, I can't help but wonder why, since this is a very real problem and in my mind a design flaw why wasn't Porsche responsible enough to take the initiative to correct it. I have driven toyota trucks for decades and I can assure you that if they had had a problem like that they would have taken the responsibility to fix it. If LN industries can make a fix for it, why did not porsche do so instead of just continuing to sell expensive sports cars with a flawed design that cost a big percentage of their loyal buyers $20K to fix? Don't get me wrong, I love Porsches, bought my first in 1964 and now own 3 of them, but I sort of feel like they have let me down by not addressing a problem they knew existed and was very costly to fix. Anyone else have an opinion?

Not true ("big percentage").

Says the guy with 3 Porsches.:)

I agree totally but at least with the 2009 and newer Boxster Porsche has designed the engine to eliminate the IMS. However for those unfortunate enough to sustain an ims failure there is no consoling. You have my sympathy and it is indeed a big financial pill to swallow.

However with the replacement IMS available and IMS Guardian I am hoping the frequency of failure is less. It would be hard to go back to driving something non-Porsche but I would do what I had to do if the big engine fail occurred!

Unfortunately many manufactures out there, not just porsche, have flaws in their vehicles that can cause catastrophic malfunctions with at least one component of the vehicle, ie. engines, transmissions, ect.... It is just too bad that the Porsche components are so darn expensive when they do brake.
Thankfully there are people who have designed updated components that can help alleviate these costly repairs.

It's not just the car industry, I loved Kodak too but whenever there were flaws we attempted to keep our dirty laundry in house. I guess the key difference was our customers spent hundreds of thousand of dollars so even though we might have tried to use a certain level of subterfuge, we also made sure in the end the customer was made "whole again". I just finished a Porsche survey, having a 2011 apparently gets more attention than the decade old 986 I had. I did take the opportunity to tell them how they handled the failure of my 986 was disappointing and unacceptable. That I thought the google searches of angry customers not just Boxster motors was a blight on a company I respect who makes products we love. I was going to surprise you guys with the next info but it looks like as a result of all my communications I may be volunteering some hours at my local Porsche dealer, if that happens I will be able to turbo charge what I already know about Porsche cars and pass the info onto the BB. Who knows, if they end up liking me I might be able to photostat some pages from actual company repair manuals, I'll keep you all posted..

What year was the Porsche?

My 986? It was a 1998 had under thirty on it but it was not purchased from a Porsche dealer, lesson learned.

My sister-in-law's Mazda RX8 engine failed at 40K - the Apex seal broke and fell into the engine. Mazda replaced the engine free and extended the warranty to
eight years or 100K.
It's too bad Porsche doesn't learn customer service by watching other successful
car makers.

That's an awesome customer service story. I wonder what it's like trying to get that kind of action from expensive marques? I mean does Ferrari toss you a free motor when one eats it?

Ferrari replaced 458s damaged by fire, and even issued a recall for the defective design that led to fires. Well, as for the IMS... no recall.

Ahhhh, that's because fire is a safety issue. Hence the recall. IMS is not a safety issue.

As for whether Ferrari will replace any 458 that burned because of the problem, the official reply was: "Of course."

Ferrari 458 Italia Officially Recalled

Ferrari recalls 'cursed' supercar after FIVE 458 Italias burst into flames | Mail Online

BBC News - Ferrari recalls Italia cars after reports of fires


I honestly believe that if the media picked up this story, Porsche would grudgingly offer a replacement or issue a recall, and at least admit to their engineering fault. But in the interests of preserving profits and image, they swept the IMS issue under the rug. A good company with merit and integrity would address these problems even if the major media were not involved, such as Mazda giving engine replacements to RX-8 owners. It seems these words are harsh, but justified given the abhorrent way Porsche handled this issue.

How old was the RX8 at the time? I agree Porsche should do better, but they are covering engines during the warranty period, just not older 2nd-hand cars.

Mazda to extend warranty on RX-8 engines

Applies to second hand cars too.

If you bought an rx8 in 2004, technically the warranty would be valid to this day. Not a Mazda fan by any means, but quite an example of an auto company that stands behind their cars.

The car was about four years old, garage kept and well maintained.

Entending the warranty to 8 years is pretty good, though that still wouldn't help the majority of 986's now.

I'll take a broken Porsche any day over a running RX8.

Take the RX8 than runs and sell it, then buy the working Porsche. :D

60 Minutes knows about it.. Their cameraman owned a Boxster since new and the engine failed at 38K miles. The car ended up at my shop and he didn't want to fix it, so now one of my employees owns it. The cameraman told his boss about the issues and then my phone rang, but I was unwilling to say anything about the issue. If that story hit the news and we shared all of what we know you'd not be able to give a Boxster or 996 away and it wouldn't help any of the people who have had failures, or would have them in the future. There is one bit of info concerning the IMSB that we've never shared, and it alone would flip the whole story upside down.

Yesterday we documented M96 MOF#24, failure of the Intermediate Shaft Assembly.. Not the IMS Bearing. We always knew this failure was possible due to the design of the shaft; but until yesterday, we had not experienced it first hand. Here is a video that you'll find interesting from the Morgue @ Flat 6 Innovations. This MOF has no preventive possible.
M96 Mode Of Failure #24 by Flat 6 Innovations - YouTube

On another hand w just saved another engine from total loss due to IMSB Failure today... Crazy thing is it had zero IMSB Failure symptoms.

Here are some pics. Lots more of others like it elsewhere on the Flat 6 facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.546148478746285.139684.184464434914693&type =1

That said... The "IMS SOlution" is being included in all of our builds in 2013 and will be debuted soon in Panorama and Excellence. Its the first and only commercially available design change for the IMS Bearing. It is another bit of combined technology offered by Flat 6 Innovations and LN Engineering. It changes the whole game, but you won't find any mention of it on either of our websites. Not yet :-)

Jake: Now we're all curious. I was just talking this morning with my inde about replacing the IMSB in the next six months. Can't wait to hear about the new bearing...

In work since well before 2009... Its the true solution to the problem.

This one is a lot different than the retrofit arrangements as we are not selling it direct to the public for DIY installation. Cost is almost exactly twice as much as the standard retrofit, but it never needs future service, replacement or attention.

For 997-1 and 997-2 engines?

Details will be shared in Panorama in January 2013.

Jake...why not have the story told on 60 minutes? Sounds like the real reason is because you won't be able to profit financially....

Another hater..
Trust me, sharing would have been much more lucrative than choosing not to.. I have also chosen not to be an expert witness on more than one occasion.

Look at what happened when 60 minutes covered 3 wheelers and CJ5 Jeeps..

I don't think it's hate as much as misplaced frustration Jake, after all the current solutions are so cost prohibitive you really have to think hard about the endeavor. It's safe to assume based on past performance that this new bulletproof solution is not going to arrive at a cost effective price point.

Mazda had this problem with the RX-7, never heard of it in an RX-8 though. I have owned both. The difference between Mazda and Porsche is that the failure rate on the rotary was incredibly high (70%?) I know, because my RX-7 had the same failure. The only question my mechanic asked me was how many miles I had. When I told him, he whipped out a book with picks of a broken seal.

Every car has its issues, some more than others, but they wouldn't stay in business if they publicized them all. The internet is a two edged sword. You can get all the information you want, but forums like this tend to concentrate the problem, make it worse than it is. I replaced my IMSB for peace of mind.

I catch myself reading these threads and getting worried... then I realize whats the point. If my car explodes, big deal. Money is paper and cars are metal... can't take either one with you. And, as long as my family and I are healthy, thats all that matters... not a car engine. So i'll drive mine and enjoy it...
That's my thought on the IMS crap...

Thats exactly the mindset that Porsche owners should have. Some people want preventive measures to avoid issues proactively; others are willing to be reactive and pay the price if something fails.

Today more than ever my failure calls start off with "I knew about this problem, but just figured I'd not worry about it". Thats much different than years ago when people would state "I had no idea about this problem until the car broke and I started researching".

The people who appreciate being proactive are very happy that development programs like ours exist while the other side of the owners seem to simply believe that the problem is all myth and money driven.

All that matters to us is saving engines, I cost my company money everyday by doing the right thing and saving engines that are within our capability to save. I feel much better at the end of the day after saving someone's engine with a process that we have developed or component we have created than I do when I get the 18K+ check in the mail for an engine that we had to completely reconstruct after a failure. Last month alone we "saved" two engines that were deemed "complete losses" by dealerships and other shops. That saved a collective 38,000 bucks for those two owners.

None of this is work to us, its just a life and I have fun everyday that I come into the facility that I've built from scratch since the age of 13. The day that I consider any of this work, I'll close the doors and have my own 30,000 square foot hobby shop and its all paid for.

Just be glad that there are retrofits, solutions and tools to extract the factory IMS Bearing. I believe that some of you have forgotten that the procedure that I developed to extract these bearings was once considered "impossible".

MSRP will be around 1495.00 and the installation costs will be the same as the standard retrofit. The IMS Solution can be installed as a retrofit to an OEM bearing or an aftermarket bearing, like the current LN Retrofit. Only two processes deviate from a standard retrofit, both of which are very straight forward.

As a comparative, the IMS Solutions that we have already been installing here at our facility to individual customers wanting them as a "retrofit" have cost 600.00 more than our standard retrofit using the current LN/ FSI bearing. All of our single row retrofits in the future will only be carried out using the IMS Solution technology. All of our engines are also getting the IMS Solution as well. Many of those who already own our engines are scheduling to have the new technology applied now and thats where the majority of our first run of bearing units have already been allocated to.

The IMS Solution is currently protected by a provisional patent and we are awaiting the USPTO to work through their 33 month backlog to issue the full patent.

I think I know this IMS SOlutions design. If it is what I think it is, I had a chat with one of the developers and it represents a bulletproof permanent solution to IMS bearing failure. I like it! :cheers:

Porsche let me down the day that they sold their soul and built the Cayenne.

Those massive Cayenne profits (I think it's Porsche's #1 volume seller too, next to the Pano) is funding great stuff for the Boxster, Cayman, and 911 varients.

Jake-It's not hate...I already have my car retrofitted with your bearing. I am proactive with my maintenance. What I am saying is that I don't see a down side to having this reported through 60 minutes. Expose the problem; make it mainstream. Didn't they do a piece on BMW HPFPs? Look what happened...now my HPFP is warranted until 100K. This happened after the 60 minute episode.

Good luck finding a Judge and a jury that gives a rat's ass about a poor old Porsche owner. Not gunna happen. The problems are not safety related. Small in number.

This offers no solace or relief for those owners that have suffered. But a great business opportunity for great (and smart) vendors like Jake and L&N. Good for them. And good for the owners that are not so risk tolerant.

maybe its just me.
as being a positive guy, i try to look at the "full half of the glass".
i knew about the IMSB, issue before i purchased my car.
i decided to by it anyway, and the retrofit is going on it next month.

without the IMSB issue, these cars would probably cost double then what they cost today (if not more).
not sure if i would have bought a boxster if the price was double .
not because i don't think its worth it. just because i could not afford it.

Jake: What kind of service or attention might the current IMSB retrofit require. I was under the impression that after the retrofit was installed the odds of an IMSB failure were close to zero and no further service or attention was needed. I am asking because I was planning to have my independent install the current retrofit in my 01S in the next month. I don't know if my IMSB is a single or dual row bearing. Thanks

So when will this be available? I am considering having a retrofit done by my mechanic (RennsportKC) in Grandview, MO. If I wait will I be able to have them do this or are you the only one to do this new fix? Any advice would be great.

Thanks, Jarrett

A major distributor has already placed a huge order and will have the first units in hand in February and begin to distribute them to shops across North America and Europe.

We are accepting sign ups for the procedure carried out at our facility now.



Then you would have had to spoken to me or Charles Navarro personally as we are the inventors and developers of the IMS Solution; no other individuals or companies have been involved. The only outsiders that know about the details are those who have purchased the unit and currently have it installed into their engines. A few members of the media have saw it, held it and have been blown away by it.

When are you going to reveal and let us know the cost of the "Solution"?

Jake,

Wile you be selling or distributing a kit with flange, tool, etc.?

I am good for one of these in February.