has Porsche let us down?

[stateofidleness]

Is it a Subaru engine?

[thom4782]

Post 29 says IMS Solution MSRP about $1,495

[barkinfool]

Originally Posted by stateofidleness

Is it a Subaru engine?

Nice one state!

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Jaxonalden

When are you going to reveal and let us know the cost of the "Solution"?

We plan to release the technology to the public in Panorama first..

I have had a newsletter that includes the pictures and parts break downs ready to distribute for a while.. It's all I can do to refrain from doing so as we do not want to let the flood gates open until our distributor has units in hand.. Other than installs we are pretty much done selling direct at retail.

The Solution installed at Flat 6 is 4,195.00 including pre-evaluation, a full clutch kit, IMSS kit, RMS, post evaluation and all associated labor and incidentals. It's a flat fee with no variables or options.

The IMSS is only for single row shafts, the technology is not being applied to dual row shafts.

[Steve Tinker]

The IMSS is only for single row shafts, the technology is not being applied to dual row shafts.[/QUOTE]

Jake....
Do I read this correctly as available for the IMS single row bearing engines and not the dual row bearing engines??
Or am I confused (again).....

[Jake Raby]

Yes, single row only. The dual row cars do not have great enough numbers to warrant the product. Also the newest dual row car is a MY 2000 so the values of the cars are so low that fewer people are retrofitting them.

The dual row cars are best protected by the IMS Guardian as a lower cost, easier to install product.

The single row 01-05 MY engines are where the IMSS is best applied.

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Yes, single row only. The dual row cars do not have great enough numbers to warrant the product. Also the newest dual row car is a MY 2000 so the values of the cars are so low that fewer people are retrofitting them.

The dual row cars are best protected by the IMS Guardian as a lower cost, easier to install product.

The single row 01-05 MY engines are where the IMSS is best applied.

I went ahead and retro fitted mine as it is a pretty nice 2000 S. Hope the LN dual row hybrid will still be available well into the future when it is time for a replacement.

I imagine the dual row hybrid retro fit would be fairly robust solution as it stands and that there would little gain in providing an improved dual row product; the bearing capacity would be inherently higher as compared to the single row hybrid bearing.

Perhaps the new product is a double row for the single rows or a return the plain bearing sleeve as found on the "other end" and older engine types?

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Sanford_yee

Jake...why not have the story told on 60 minutes? Sounds like the real reason is because you won't be able to profit financially....

I knew someone who was friends with a director at the Supreme Court. The director invited us to have lunch at their famous cafeteria after a personal tour of the chambers. Very nice. Over lunch someone brought up 60 Minutes. His whole mood went sour in two seconds.
He said that if any of us were ever in a position to be visited by their reporters to immediately lock the door and ignore their calls. Lots of bad things to say about their ethics and integrity after they apparently tried to do a story on the Court. "their only goal is to make you look stupid or corrupt"

Personally, a story about Boxsters with exploding engines would really hurt resale without anything getting accomplished. Bad press is not going to hurt Porsche one bit. They're selling sedans and SUVs to Chinese billionaires who could care less.
Fewer folks buying Boxsters and Carreras would be bad for everyone. That being said if you do by one and don't immediately address the IMS I think you have to live with the consequences. Neither would I put off the IMS swap until the clutch wore out. Do it as soon as you get the car. The savings of putting off the clutch repair can cost you too dearly to be worth the gamble. Any mildly experienced Porsche mechanic can do this job in a day. My indy told me they've done like nearly 400 or something. Sounds like a standard part of the clutch job now.

[1olddude]

Yes but tell me what the failure rate is for the LN ceramic bearing? What kind of odds are there that the new bearing won't fail? I sometimes wonder if the vocal minority makes this problem seem worse than it really is. My 02 S now has 13500 miles on the odometer and I have a hard time throwing $1500 bucks toward something that doesn't guaranty the replacement bearing won't toast my engine anyway. I know there is money to be made the more the fear rages on with no clear numbers to tell us one way or another. It's a crapshoot for sure and I guess I am a riverboat gambler. To be honest, my 2005 Jeep Wrangler has caused me more lost sleep than my S. That Jeep is a money pit but a fun vehicle for what it was meant to do. Maintenance is a huge factor in keeping an automobile on the road for the long haul. I have a 1975 GMC pickup truck that is still going strong with only regular maintenance over all those years and yes, I know, 37 years is a long time to keep a vehicle and I am damn old.

[Steve Tinker]

olddude...
Below is a post from Jake Raby from earlier this year regarding LN ceramic bearing failures - looks like a total of 3 that they (LN & F6I) know about.
This is Raby's response to the question - read on.....

The 3 failures have all been single rows..
-One of them suffered damage from a tensioner paddle failure that contaminated the bearing with foreign object debris.. The bearing will not live through this, don't even expect it to.

-Another of them suffered a failure where **possibly** the installer did not get the snap ring seated correctly. I did the post-mortem on this engine and the actual means of failure were not conclusive, so LN did the right thing and warranted the bearing and I reassembled the engine. (This was not my engine or install, LN paid me to evaluate and repair the engine).. The owner of the car didn't have to ASK to receive this level of service.

-The third failure appears to have been a classic bearing failure; nothing was present to suggest otherwise.

NONE of the bearings we have installed via retrofit or full (triple row) upgrade have failed. No dual row retrofit bearings have failed. Out of 4,000 installs 3 failures have occurred, one of which was DEFINITELY related to foreign object debris collateral damage, another of which may have been.. That leaves one out of 4,000 that simply grenaded..

[Jake Raby]

Now a lot more than 4,000 have been sold as I stated in that post. The figures are now double that.

FYI- we recently retrofitted a 16k mile Boxster S from 2004. The work was done proactively and the bearing was already at stage II failure with a compromised seal. We cut this one apart and documented it like all the rest.

[1olddude]

Do the Porsche dealers do this retrofit bearing upgrade? Should I wait until the Raby guaranteed no fail solution becomes available and will it be performed by dealers or only at Flat 6? These are questions I need to find answers for. I want what is best for my car.

[thom4782]

Best to call your local dealer and ask. I live in the SF Bay area and at least one of the local dealers does retrofit Boxsters with the LN ceramic bearing. I also know of several independent repair shops that do so.

The question is whether the IMS Solution will be sold to both dealers as well as independent shops. An earlier note, I believe said the IMS Solution will not be sold to DIYers.

[duongtrungbinh123]

UP on top m?i ngu?i cùng xem!!!

[husker boxster]

I've been wanting to chime in for a while but haven't for fear of bad kwan, but here goes...

First, we're 3 pages deep into this thread and we haven't heard back from the OP. Maybe he's busy planning his course of action and doesn't have time to give us an update but it's interesting to me. Based on his description (multiple P-Car owner) and his # of posts, he doesn't appear to be someone who came in with an incendiary bomb and sits back and watches the fun. Would be interesting to get an update on what direction he's going.

Second, with all the info available on IMS failures there shouldn't be a Boxster or 911 owner on this planet who isn't aware of it. Whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you but you can't deny any knowledge of it. And now with preventative measures available, how can you blame Porsche if you ignore it and then it happens to you? We can debate whether Porsche should build a bullet proof car capable of 250K mi of trouble free driving and we can debate the number of IMS failures vs the total number of cars produced. That's not my point. We know there is an issue and we have options. If we choose to ignore those options, aren't we cuplable? When someone pens a thread about their IMS shooting craps and Porsche should be held accountable, I'd like to know why they chose to not do anything prior to the occurrence.

Having said all that, I'm probably going to be hit hard by the IMS Gods. That wouldn't be good with my stable about to expand to 3 for a period of time. However, I've evaluated my situation. My cars have M97 engines with the improved IMSB. In a previous IMS thread, I asked Jake what the approx cost is to change out the IMSB in an M97. He said $4200 IIRC. So I can spend $4200 or $10000 if my improved version doesn't live. I've been watching threads carefully (esp on Planet-9 since that's more 987 centric) and there are very few M97 failures. Not zero, but few. The M96 is much more prone. So I'm going to roll the dice. If mine fail, I don't want any sympathy because I've chosen to go this route and I won't want to start a class action suit against Porsche. I've chosen a path and I'll live with my decision. Two of my three cars currently have CPO into next yr, so my decision might be different next yr.

[husker boxster]

I've been wanting to chime in for a while but haven't for fear of bad kwan, but here goes...

First, we're 3 pages deep into this thread and we haven't heard back from the OP. Maybe he's busy planning his course of action and doesn't have time to give us an update but it's interesting to me. Based on his description (multiple P-Car owner) and his # of posts, he doesn't appear to be someone who came in with an incendiary bomb and sits back and watches the fun. Would be interesting to get an update on what direction he's going.

Second, with all the info available on IMS failures there shouldn't be a Boxster or 911 owner on this planet who isn't aware of it. Whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you but you can't deny any knowledge of it. And now with preventative measures available, how can you blame Porsche if you ignore it and then it happens to you? We can debate whether Porsche should build a bullet proof car capable of 250K mi of trouble free driving and we can debate the number of IMS failures vs the total number of cars produced. That's not my point. We know there is an issue and we have options. If we choose to ignore those options, aren't we cuplable? When someone pens a thread about their IMS shooting craps and Porsche should be held accountable, I'd like to know why they chose to not do anything prior to the occurrence.

Having said all that, I'm probably going to be hit hard by the IMS Gods. That wouldn't be good with my stable about to expand to 3 for a period of time. However, I've evaluated my situation. My cars have M97 engines with the improved IMSB. In a previous IMS thread, I asked Jake what the approx cost is to change out the IMSB in an M97. He said $4200 IIRC. So I can spend $4200 or $10000 if my improved version doesn't live. I've been watching threads carefully (esp on Planet-9 since that's more 987 centric) and there are very few M97 failures. Not zero, but few. The M96 is much more prone. So I'm going to roll the dice. If mine fail, I don't want any sympathy because I've chosen to go this route and I won't be wanting to start a class action suit against Porsche. Two of my three cars currently have CPO into next yr, so my decision might be different next yr.

[recycledsixtie]

I have a 2001 Boxster base 2.7l engine. How do I know if my engine has a double row or single row IMS? Does the ims have to be removed first or can the serial no. of the car give an indication of what kind of bearing it is? I have ims guardian installed already but would like to know what I have.

[BoxsterSteve]

Visually is the only way to determine which bearing you have installed.
Unfortunately, the trans, clutch and flywheel have to come off first and then the original bearing removed.
Vehicle and engine serials won't tell which bearing is in there. IIRC, somewhere on the LN or Pelican site, I can't remember which, there was an approximate breakdown by engine s/n, but even that's not guaranteed...

[shadrach74]

Originally Posted by BoxsterSteve

Visually is the only way to determine which bearing you have installed.
Unfortunately, the trans, clutch and flywheel have to come off first and then the original bearing removed.
Vehicle and engine serials won't tell which bearing is in there. IIRC, somewhere on the LN or Pelican site, I can't remember which, there was an approximate breakdown by engine s/n, but even that's not guaranteed...

What you say is not really true. Some of the MY's have a known set up, it's only during upgrade years that were subject to design changes that it the bearing need be visually inspected. Do you think Porsche designed multiple bearing styles out of the gate and just through different bearing in different cars to keep everyone guessing?

[mountainman]

I am back and I have been doing what I am supposed to do, putting hundreds of miles on the 08 boxster. In answer to what I did, I ate the $20K and had a new engine put in.
There seem to be a lot of varied opinion but it seems most feel that Porsche could have been more responsible in addressing the problem than they were. If someone else can make a better bearing, couldn"t porsche have also and if not couldn"t they have purchased that better bearing themselves instead of continuing to build their own flawed one? And I find it unbelievable that someone should be expected to buy a $100K sportscar and then expect to start replacing engine parts that aren't up to par. When should you do it, 50,000 miles, 30,000, 20,000 or just drive it straight from the dealer and have it done with no miles.
Not trying to change anyones mind, I just feel that when this became significant problem Porsche could have addressed it much quicker and spent a few dollars more to put in a better bearing and saved Many of their customers like me thousands. I started buying their cars in 1964 and have owned dozens of them over the last 50 years. I have certainly done my part to make them what they are today and I just feel a little shortchanged I supposed.
Enough said on this subject. I have to go buy 3 sets of Porsche tires to reshoe everything. It ain't cheap top drive these things. Thanks for the input