Drove a 981 'S' tonight...

[Ghostrider 310]

The new steering has less to do with "dialing in wheel feel" than it does meeting future mileage standards by reducing parasitic drag, all the manufacturers are heading that way.

[MikenOH]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

All the reviews I've read are underwhelming on the electronic steering. The engineers make a very good argument for it, safer (no highly flamable fluids anymore), doesn't divert HP, saves gas at stop lights, etc. but it still means that the 987 Boxster Spyder will always be the best handling Boxster from a driver's perspective.

.

Nobody has been talking about how the move to the new steering gear removes one of the more problematic areas of the car, for people that take their cars to the track.
Go to the Cayman board to see all the issues on how the PS unit fails or leaks at the track or what happens when that fluid gets dumped in a hot engine compartment. A fellow had his car burn at a DE when the fluid ignited. Not sure if it was a total loss but enough damage to put his car out of commission for a while. It may not happen to all tracked cars, it will definitely get your attention if it happens to you.
You may loose some of the steering feel with the new unit, but I think the others gains out way that negative.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by MikenOH

Nobody has been talking about how the move to the new steering gear removes one of the more problematic areas of the car, for people that take their cars to the track.
Go to the Cayman board to see all the issues on how the PS unit fails or leaks at the track or what happens when that fluid gets dumped in a hot engine compartment. A fellow had his car burn at a DE when the fluid ignited. Not sure if it was a total loss but enough damage to put his car out of commission for a while. It may not happen to all tracked cars, it will definitely get your attention if it happens to you.
You may loose some of the steering feel with the new unit, but I think the others gains out way that negative.

LOL, there are other ways to combat a fluid line that runs too close to the exhaust manifold. It's hardly the right "fix" for that issue.

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

LOL, there are other ways to combat a fluid line that runs too close to the exhaust manifold. It's hardly the right "fix" for that issue.

Glad you said it, that same basic system has been around a long while and has proved itself reliable over the interval.

[blue2000s]

I wonder how long it has been since many on the board have have driven a 2300 pound sports car with a manual steering rack. Window cranks, manual side view mirrors and -gasp- a live rear axle. It changes your perspective on what a car should feel like. It shouldn't be perfect, it should have character and personality. I am lucky to have this as my benchmark and the cars I drive are compared to it. I guess that's why every generation of Porsche that comes along keeps getting more and more dissapointing to me.

[grubinski]

Hmmm, blue2000s, if I was a betting man I'd say your next car is leaning in the Exige direction rather than F355.

I am still resisting the temptation to put 18s or wider 17s and more negative camber on "your" car. I am also resisting the temptation to put R compound rubber on it ... not that the tires on it are anywhere near worn out yet, in spite of my higher rate of mileage accumulation. It drives so nice now, I keep reminding myself that it's not broken, so don't F#$@ with it.

You can help with this by asking me periodically how the Miata is coming.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by grubinski

Hmmm, blue2000s, if I was a betting man I'd say your next car is leaning in the Exige direction rather than F355.

I am still resisting the temptation to put 18s or wider 17s and more negative camber on "your" car. I am also resisting the temptation to put R compound rubber on it ... not that the tires on it are anywhere near worn out yet, in spite of my higher rate of mileage accumulation. It drives so nice now, I keep reminding myself that it's not broken, so don't F#$@ with it.

You can help with this by asking me periodically how the Miata is coming.

Hey M - I never changed the wheels because I like the ride and handling better with the 17s. Plus 17s are cheaper for a very minimal performance increase if at all. Besides, I think once you have the Miata set up and you're using it, the urge will go away.

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

I wonder how long it has been since many on the board have have driven a 2300 pound sports car with a manual steering rack. Window cranks, manual side view mirrors and -gasp- a live rear axle. It changes your perspective on what a car should feel like. It shouldn't be perfect, it should have character and personality. I am lucky to have this as my benchmark and the cars I drive are compared to it. I guess that's why every generation of Porsche that comes along keeps getting more and more dissapointing to me.

For me one week only it's 2100 pounds

[stephen wilson]

Blue, in all seriousness, why don't you look into a vintage car? It's sounds like it would much better match your desires.

Can you imagine what would happen in the media if Porsche produced a modern car with the "character" (flaws) you desire? They would be crucified. You can't turn back time, and unlearn technology.

I'll drive one at some point, but from what I've read, the slight numbness doesn't detract from the driving pleasure. It should also free up some H.P. , though it is a shame to lose some feedback.

[Ghostrider 310]

Both vehicles have their charms but Stephen makes an excellent point. I can only drive mine a couple miles as the lack of independent suspension in the rear is a lumbar disk pulverizer. It's also a PIA because people in NY all want to go warp nine at the green and stop in eighty feet. Forty year old technology can't do that. I won't even mention what a death ship it would be if hit by one of ten texters you see every single trip in this country, LOL though, you pea brained driving maniacs!

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

Blue, in all seriousness, why don't you look into a vintage car? It's sounds like it would much better match your desires.

Can you imagine what would happen in the media if Porsche produced a modern car with the "character" (flaws) you desire? They would be crucified. You can't turn back time, and unlearn technology.

I'll drive one at some point, but from what I've read, the slight numbness doesn't detract from the driving pleasure. It should also free up some H.P. , though it is a shame to lose some feedback.

There are a few true sports cars left on the market. If Porsche made one in addition to the GTs, they'd be applauded for getting back to basics. But I agree that they can't go back with the current models. It's too bad though that they are moving both cars in the same direction at the same pace. Like I've mentioned before, Porsche no longer makes any cars that interest me. The best ones have already been made.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

I'll drive one at some point, but from what I've read, the slight numbness doesn't detract from the driving pleasure. It should also free up some H.P. , though it is a shame to lose some feedback.

losing feedback is a mortal sin for THIS type of car. Fine for bloated GT or GT-lite or GT styled convertible. Engineering should revolve on avoiding that as much as possible. In fact they should engineer new ways to have MORE feedback.
How? Who knows that's why they rake in millions. It's not very imaginative to simply turn a sports car into a cushy, insulated plush yuppy mover. People are quick to point out that it's lighter, more powerful but it's pretty obvious that these things are driven by arriving at the lowest lap time (N-ring specifically) and not maximizing the driver's role.
But those are two incongruent objectives. Faster N-ring times mean the car must do more and the driver less -- certainly with more and more power that can put the average inexperienced , deep-pocketed driver up a tree with one errant move. So feedback becomes a secondary goal and you get less and less with each new generation. They are slowly destroying the key element of the roadster experience. It's like playing a video game on the easiet level because that's the one where you drive fastest and your mistakes never slow you down.

[Ghostrider 310]

Blue those 2100 pound cars, have no six airbags, no six speaker stereos, no catalytic converters, no five mile an hour bumpers they can't build one at 2100 anymore, there are too many regulations and crash test metrics to meet.

[kls]

I think in many ways I'm the type of guy Porsche is designing cars for. I'm in my 60's and I love cars as much as always, and can I afford a nicer car. I read all the reviews and lust over the best handling, most powerful model - even though I will probably never put it on a track. I know the 315 HP on the new Boxster S is completely wasted on me, but knowing it's there and being able to punch it occasionally may help to keep me young. The problem is that after a couple of hours driving in my 986 my back begins to ache a bit and the noise starts to get to me. Enter the 981 - quieter, plusher, luxury interior. Others understandably don't want that, but it works for me.

I apologize to everyone on the forum for being the demographic that drives these changes, but as a kid I had to walk 4 miles to school in 3' of snow....

[MikenOH]

I have not driven a 981 back to back with a 986, but in my short time in the car, I thought the steering felt fine. Maybe after 7 years in a 987, my recollections of how great the steering response was in a 986 has dimmed, but i felt the steering in new the car allowed the driver to put the car where they wanted and still allow the driving experience to be fun.

Without a doubt, HP losses, MPG numbers and the like are driving just about everything these days on new cars. I'm sure the Germans still want to get that "one with the car" feeling if possible, but with the above issues and ever widening tires, the steering response priority will suffer.

The only way to get back to the "holy grail" is to buy a used 986 or another true sports car with unassisted steering--all depends on where the priorities are for the buyer. Porsche is betting on--and I agree with them--that the improvements in the new car will widen the appeal to those that want a more civilized car, with additional creature comforts--while still having the performance capabilities that traditional Porsche customers expect in a car.

Having said that, I could have done without the Panamera's console; it may work in a Panamera but looks out of place in both the 991 and 981.

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

losing feedback is a mortal sin for THIS type of car. Fine for bloated GT or GT-lite or GT styled convertible. Engineering should revolve on avoiding that as much as possible. In fact they should engineer new ways to have MORE feedback.
How? Who knows that's why they rake in millions. It's not very imaginative to simply turn a sports car into a cushy, insulated plush yuppy mover. People are quick to point out that it's lighter, more powerful but it's pretty obvious that these things are driven by arriving at the lowest lap time (N-ring specifically) and not maximizing the driver's role.
But those are two incongruent objectives. Faster N-ring times mean the car must do more and the driver less -- certainly with more and more power that can put the average inexperienced , deep-pocketed driver up a tree with one errant move. So feedback becomes a secondary goal and you get less and less with each new generation. They are slowly destroying the key element of the roadster experience. It's like playing a video game on the easiet level because that's the one where you drive fastest and your mistakes never slow you down.

[WhipE350]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

losing feedback is a mortal sin for THIS type of car. Fine for bloated GT or GT-lite or GT styled convertible. Engineering should revolve on avoiding that as much as possible. In fact they should engineer new ways to have MORE feedback.
How? Who knows that's why they rake in millions. It's not very imaginative to simply turn a sports car into a cushy, insulated plush yuppy mover. People are quick to point out that it's lighter, more powerful but it's pretty obvious that these things are driven by arriving at the lowest lap time (N-ring specifically) and not maximizing the driver's role.
But those are two incongruent objectives. Faster N-ring times mean the car must do more and the driver less -- certainly with more and more power that can put the average inexperienced , deep-pocketed driver up a tree with one errant move. So feedback becomes a secondary goal and you get less and less with each new generation. They are slowly destroying the key element of the roadster experience. It's like playing a video game on the easiet level because that's the one where you drive fastest and your mistakes never slow you down.

Do you use blades and balata golf balls too

[bfenster]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

losing feedback is a mortal sin for THIS type of car. Fine for bloated GT or GT-lite or GT styled convertible. Engineering should revolve on avoiding that as much as possible. In fact they should engineer new ways to have MORE feedback.
How? Who knows that's why they rake in millions. It's not very imaginative to simply turn a sports car into a cushy, insulated plush yuppy mover. People are quick to point out that it's lighter, more powerful but it's pretty obvious that these things are driven by arriving at the lowest lap time (N-ring specifically) and not maximizing the driver's role.
But those are two incongruent objectives. Faster N-ring times mean the car must do more and the driver less -- certainly with more and more power that can put the average inexperienced , deep-pocketed driver up a tree with one errant move. So feedback becomes a secondary goal and you get less and less with each new generation. They are slowly destroying the key element of the roadster experience. It's like playing a video game on the easiet level because that's the one where you drive fastest and your mistakes never slow you down.

Hmmm... I'll bet those Ford Model T's had great feedback

[Squozen]

Oh, I really shouldn't have come to the forum now. I want nothing more than to go for a drive but I'm waiting on replacement rotors to arrive. MY LIFE IS PAIN!

[southernstar]

I suspect that the 981 is going to be a huge success. Opinions vary, of course, but I think the new body is very attractive while being much more aggressive than the 986/7. The headlights? They blend in well IMO and certainly look similar to the headlight set-up of many of the Porsche 908 and 917's from endurance racing in the early 70's. Do I like the electric steering? Not having tried it, I probably would prefer the additional feel of my 986. However, I suspect that it is less of an issue than many believe. Indeeed, I recall the outrage of many when Porsche moved from manual to power steering on the 911 and, there can be no doubt that even hydraulic power steering elimiinates the direct mechanical connection of non-assisterd steering (alhtough with the size of current tires, the effort that would be required without power assist is virtually out of the question).

Do I like the electric emergency brake? Again, no - to me it is an unnecessary complication to a straightforward mechanical system. Would this stop me from buying a 981? Of course not.

I very much like the increased use of aluminum in the structure (and the reduced weight, in spite of increased size, over the 987). I love the increased efficiency of the new top (quieter and faster to operate). On the other hand, I miss the more finished look that was derived from the metal tonneau that was fitted on the original. I like the increased interior dimensions ( which will also prove important for those who are mcuh more than 6 feet tall), but also miss the unique curvaceousness of the 986 interior (and the lower shft knob).

Is it a win/win? Nothing ever is. Yes, it loses a bit of the uniqueness that was achieved when Porshce first introduced the Boxster in 1996. Is the design as clean and uncluttered as the 986? No, and while I quite like the new 981, I still prefer the clean, almost feminine lines of the 986; the historical cues from the 550 Spyder and the incredible symmetry in that design - note the repetition of modified 'C' forms in the front grills, headlights, front wheel openings, door handles, tail lights, side window and top profile, rear center light, head rests, roll bars, gauge hood, etc., etc. that was carried so elegantly throughout the entire 986. But the new car is handsome indeed and will no doubt eliminate much of the criticism that that 986 received for being a 'chick's' car - there is nothing feminine about it, for those who are concerned about such things.

For those of us who prefer the earlier cars, we get to keep them and have a good supply of parts from a manufacturer that is becoming more and more profitable. If Porsche continued to live in the past, I have no doubt that would be on the road to insolvency and we would all be the losers. Vive the new Boxster!

Brad

[blue2000s]

Here's my personal fun scale.

550 on the high end of fun, H2 being the opposite of fun.