Sound logic on gas prices

[slogans7]

Thanks for mention of Jimmy Carter. Boy, what a mistake he made in his innagural address:

"Our material resources, great as they are, are limited. Our problems are too complex for simple slogans or for quick solutions. We cannot solve them without effort and sacrifice. Walter Lippmann once reminded us, 'You took the good things for granted. Now you must earn them again. For every right that you cherish, you have a duty which you must fulfill. For every good which you wish to preserve, you will have to sacrifice your comfort and your ease. There is nothing for nothing any longer.'"

On the other foot, in spite of being in a war, Americans are asked to sacrifice nothing. Yay W!

I fear I'm getting too political here. Apologies in advance.

[Brucelee]

The misery quotient under the Rev Carter was certainly the highest I can remember in my lifetime. The guy was an awful President and has made an even worse ex-President.

But, he is a nice man and so, he goes on.

Originally Posted by slogans7

Thanks for mention of Jimmy Carter. Boy, what a mistake he made in his innagural address:

"Our material resources, great as they are, are limited. Our problems are too complex for simple slogans or for quick solutions. We cannot solve them without effort and sacrifice. Walter Lippmann once reminded us, 'You took the good things for granted. Now you must earn them again. For every right that you cherish, you have a duty which you must fulfill. For every good which you wish to preserve, you will have to sacrifice your comfort and your ease. There is nothing for nothing any longer.'"

On the other foot, in spite of being in a war, Americans are asked to sacrifice nothing. Yay W!

I fear I'm getting too political here. Apologies in advance.

[Brucelee]

BTW- for all of you who are ready to torch your Boxster and turn over a new leaf (think of how the greens will love you!), here is a list to select your next car from!

Enjoy!

:dance:

Top 10 Passenger Cars for Fuel Economy

No organization tests every vehicle's fuel economy in real-world driving. The challenge of obtaining every vehicle early in the model year, then driving them all over a specific route under identical conditions, is insurmountable. Therefore, we have to rely on Environmental Protection Agency estimates. While you can't expect your vehicle to get the exact mpg figures supplied by the EPA, mileage estimates do let you compare vehicles.


Cars.com Top 10: Most Fuel-Efficient Passenger Cars for 2005
According to Environmental Protection Agency estimates, the following passenger cars are likely to deliver the best gas mileage. They're listed in order of anticipated fuel economy (city), starting with the most miserly.


Vehicle Name MPG (City/Hwy)* List Price
Honda Insight 61/66 TBA
Toyota Prius 60/51 $20,875
Honda Civic Hybrid 48/47 $19,800
Volkswagen Golf 38/46 $15,830 - $19,580
Volkswagen Jetta 38/46 $17,680 - $24,070
Volkswagen New Beetle 38/46 $16,570 - $25,450
Honda Civic 36/44 $13,160 - $19,800
Toyota Echo 35/42 $10,355 - $10,885
Toyota Corolla 32/41 $13,680 - $17,455
Scion xA 32/37 $12,480

[Perfectlap]

China has very low emissions standards vs. the West.
And foreign automakers are only too happy to oblige.
Imagine a country three times the US in population with cars three times more toxic to the environment? Zero effect on the planet? I don't think so.
Even conservatives from industrial backgrounds like Paul O'Neill pressured the current adminstration to do SOMETHING about global warming.
But like all other fiscal responsibilities we prefer to do nothing and continue on our merry way. We have become very short sighted. Hopefully this gas situation will change some things.
btw, I've been living up here in the Northeast my entire life and I and people much older than me can tell you we don't have winters consistently like we used to. In only 25 years things have changed from what they always used to be.

[Brucelee]

"China has very low emissions standards vs. the West.
And foreign automakers are only too happy to oblige."

Do you suggest that car makers not sell to the Chinese? Why not? If you were an investor in any car company, would you want them to not sell to China?

Do you suggest that the USA set emissions standard for the rest of the world?


"Imagine a country three times the US in population with cars three times more toxic to the environment? Zero effect on the planet? I don't think so."

What is the effect on the planet? Where is your science and what would you do about if you WERE correct?


"Even conservatives from industrial backgrounds like Paul O'Neill pressured the current adminstration to do SOMETHING about global warming. "

Paul O'Neill is an economist, not a chemist or biologist. What would you have the USA do about global warming when there is no agreement among the scientific community that there is such a thing?


"But like all other fiscal responsibilities we prefer to do nothing and continue on our merry way. We have become very short sighted. "

When was it that WE were not short sighted? Would you go back to the 60s when we had NO EMISSIONS standards at all? Were we long sighted then?

"Hopefully this gas situation will change some things."

Yes, it will. The market will adapt. Folks behavior will change as it is always changing. Do you think buying habits will remain the same if gas reaches $4.00 per gallon. I don't. Folks respond to prices and incentives. Likewise, at $70 a barrell, oil companies will start drilling more marginal fields, ASSUMING the government will allow them too!



"btw, I've been living up here in the Northeast my entire life and I and people much older than me can tell you we don't have winters consistently like we used to. In only 25 years things have changed from what they always used to be.[/QUOTE]"

This is total crap science. Two years ago, NE had it worst winter ON RECORD. Record cold and snow. If the planet were warming up, how did this happen? I lived in NE for 25 yrs too and the winters were all farily variable. Climate science does not rely on one's own memory.

Last winter, San Diego had awful weather. It means nothing from a climate perspective, which is measured in 100 years chunks.

[Palmer]

I really don't want to get involved in this discussion, but I am curious about something Brucelee said. "The recent data suggest the polar ice caps are getting thicker". Do you have a citation for this? I'm just curious.

[Brucelee]

I will try to find that cite.

Thanks

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

"

This is total crap science. Two years ago, NE had it worst winter ON RECORD. Record cold and snow. If the planet were warming up, how did this happen? I lived in NE for 25 yrs too and the winters were all farily variable. Climate science does not rely on one's own memory.

Last winter, San Diego had awful weather. It means nothing from a climate perspective, which is measured in 100 years chunks.

1.We do set emissions standards for the world. (As well as the EU).
The Chinese measure how far behind the west they are on emissions standards
by the example we set. While Europe is on Euro 5 standards, China is still trying to adapt to Euro 2.
2. OK I have no scientific evidence to suggest that a country 3x's the USA with cars 3x's more toxic is hurting the environment. conclusion: the abscence of evidence means there are no negative effects to the enviroment. Just because you can't produce irefutable evidence doesn't mean there isn't damage. Find me a single field of science where that community is unanimous? Cancer?
3. Paul O'Neill aside from being an economist is also the former and long serving CEO of a Alcoa, a company that had minimizing pollution and toxic waste as a corporate responsibility. Has he (a cabinet member of several U.S. Presidents) also been duped by Greens on the reality of Global warming errr "Global climate change"? If so then I don't feel so bad because I'm not as smart as he is.
4. Short sighted? We've done more to compromise the fiscal and eviromental future of this country in the last 20 years than the previous 200 years of this country existence COMBINED. Pick up 'Running on Empty' by Pete Petersen, a conservative afterall.
5. LONGTERM Higher Gas prices = INFLATION. hold onto your hat Mr. Bush.
You're about to know what Mr. Carter felt like back in 70's.
6. I said CONSISTENT weather. Erratic weather patterns where one winter is the worst on record while the previous winter is the mildest, has never been the norm up here.

BTW, Gas hit $3.50 a gallon for 93 this morning at my local gas station. On Tuesday it was $2.75

[Brucelee]

1.We do set emissions standards for the world. (As well as the EU).

The Chinese measure how far behind the west they are on emissions standards
by the example we set. While Europe is on Euro 5 standards, China is still trying to adapt to Euro 2.

Clearly we do not SET standards for the Chinese, they have CHOSEN to follow other standards. That is there choice, which it seems to me should aleviate concerns about their buying all those "dirty cars."

"2. OK I have no scientific evidence to suggest that a country 3x's the USA with cars 3x's more toxic is hurting the environment. conclusion: the abscence of evidence means there are no negative effects to the enviroment. Just because you can produce irefutable evidence doesn't mean there isn't damage. Find me a single field of science where that community is unanimous? Cancer? "


Go back to the point you made earlier. If the Chinese are choosing to move their emissions standards up voluntarily, then this so called TOXIC impact on its air quality will be mitigated.

Still, you do not offer up what you would do to deal with these Chinese calamity that you predict? Will you not allow Chinese citizens to purchase cars? Will you not allow car manufacturers to sell cars in China?

What do you propose?

"3. Paul O'Neill aside from being an economist is also the former and long serving CEO of a Alcoa, a company that had minimizing pollution and toxic waste as a corporate responsibility. Has he (a cabinet member of several U.S. Presidents) also been duped by Greens on the reality of Global warming errr "Global climate change"? If so then I don't feel so bad because I'm not as smart as he is."

So, you think Paul O'Neill is smart and he believes in Global warming, so ergo, it must be true? Interesting logic. I guess his opinion is worth more than the temperature readings in the atmosphere and the measurements of the polar ice caps.

Think of all the work we will save for those climate guys now. Paul has spoken!

"4. Short sighted? We've done more to compromise the fiscal and eviromental future of this country in the last 20 years than the previous 200 years of this country existence COMBINED. Pick up 'Running on Empty' by Pete Petersen, a conservative."

Who is this WE that you speak of and what criteria do you use. By all objective measures (many of which I have posted here) significant progress has been made in reducing ALL FORMS of pollutants here in the USA.

I guess you will need to fill me in on this.

"5. Higher Gas prices = INFLATION. hold onto your hat Mr. Bush.
You're about to know what Mr. Carter felt like back in 70's."

As President of the US, what would YOU DO to "control" the price of oil and gasoline? How would YOU increase supply of oil and gas IN THE SHORT RUN?

How much SHOULD gas cost in the US and why?

Oh, and comparing the US economy of 2005 and the 1970s is a complete joke. I won't bore you with the DATA but the inflation rates and interest rates approached 15%. Unemployment up etc etc.

Not a fun time and we have come a long long way.

To wit, today we found out the economy added 146K jobs last month and the unemployment rates dropped to 4.9%

Ah, data, get some!



__________________

[slogans7]

Hi Bruce - Actually I was attempting to be a little ironic in referencing Carter. I cited his speach because he had the balls - or temerity, if you will - to ask Americans to sacrifice.