Autocross and other quick questions!

[Mrmaddbrad]

Hello everyone! This is offcially my first post and I'm really just looking for some information from everyone here to make sure this is really the car i want (Which I'm pretty dang sure it is :P )

So first things first, does anyone autocross their base model 986's?? I know these cars are in C-stock along with the much less powerful but lighter Mazda Miatas. Do they seem to hold their own against them, and in general in the class?

Secondly, I'd love to know how high each gear will run. I really just need to know the first 2 or 3 gears. I'm assuming first will do about 45 mph in a base model, and slightly less than that in the 6 speed transmition.

Next, are there big websites on where to buy performance parts besides Pelicanparts? For isntance bavarian autosport is big for BMW's. Do such companies/websites exsist?

AND! Asside from racing, do you feel as though i'd be disspointed buying a base model instead of an S. I'm looking to spend less than $15,000 and i think if i bought a base model, i could put the minor modifications into that i would want instead of just leaving an S model stock.

Some one help me out a little bit :P

Thanks a ton!!
~Brad

[Topless]

Yes a Base Boxster is a blast and can be competitive in C stock. I run PCA so I only compete against other Porsches though. Plenty of online sites for performance gear. Pelican, GSR motorsport, Red Line, to name just a few. I think 2nd tops at 60mph, 3rd at 85, in a 2.5 car but it is somewhat dependent on your tire choices.

Jump in, the water is fine.

[Mrmaddbrad]

Oow, you have no idea how bad i want to go swimming in that kind of water! lol

Yeah, but here in a few months i think that I am going to buy one. I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy a base model, but everything about an S looks so much more appealing! Suspension, brakes, extra hp. Everything!

Has anyone driven both? Do you feel as though you could go back to driving a base model after driving an S?

[Topless]

As an Instructor I get to drive em all: Box S, 930, 951, GT3RS, Carrera GTX, Cayman R, Boxster Spider, Z06, AMG, M5 etc. I don't suffer from "S" envy at all but I know a lot of drivers who do. To each his own. I like my lil 2.5L pea shooter just fine.

[tnoice]

I autocross my 986S in a "few" autocrosses each year, so I can't speak for the base Boxster, however you must be careful on what modifications you do because it could bump you into a higher class, where you find yourself less than competitive. SCCA is pretty strict about their stock classes.

The best modification I made that made the car a lot better to flog around the course was new tires. I went with the RE11's. They are amazing.

Have fun autocrossing!

[Mrmaddbrad]

Wow guys! Already being very helpful!

I do know about autocross rules. I am currently autocrossing a 1986 BMW 325es in G-stock. Tires are the biggest modification you can make, while you can still do shocks, new air intake, and front sway bar modifcations and still remain in stock class.

I don't plan on doing much to my boxster, MAYBE a front sway bar if i can find the right one. But for the most part, tires will be the only thing i will be using and hopefully a good set of R-compounds will let me dominate the 10 miatas in C-stock at my local autocross...

Thanks for all the help everyone!!

Topless, do you find the acceleration in a 986 vs a 986S to be as significant as people make it seem? I figure even the base model will be way more fun than what i have now :P

[The dude]

Originally Posted by Mrmaddbrad

Topless, do you find the acceleration in a 986 vs a 986S to be as significant as people make it seem? I figure even the base model will be way more fun than what i have now :P

Sorry to butt in.......

I drove a few different cars before getting the S. The base seemed to be a little underpowered.... And I drove both a 1999 and 2000 which had differing horsepower. The S was significantly quicker and, in my mind, a whole different beast. Not that a isn't worthy.......

It all comes down to driver anyway on a track. For me, I just drive on the street.

[DenverSteve]

As long as you're comparing like years of Base and S then yes they are very comparable. You have a bigger difference when comparing a 1997 base and a 2004 S for example. I had a 2001 base and now a 2002 S and the S has more torque and HP but the 2.7 had a manual which makes up for a lot of difference. As a track car either will do nicely.

[Mrmaddbrad]

Yeah i totally agree. It is great advice. However, its not like a boxster is THAT much faster than an NB miata. Sure 60 hp sounds like a lot, but it still has over 400 lbs on one too. I agree on everything financially, but I have a hard time backing away because of a general bias of my age. I know parts are more and it's "too much to handle" supposedly, but parts at cost are only slightly more than miata parts, and they are just better made cars.

Honestly, when you get in a miata and drive it around for any length of time, it feels cheap, its still fun to drive and you feel completely at one with the car, but it does feel cheap. Probably because they are.... You can go buy a brand new one, full of options, with a retractable hard top, for just over $30,000... Case and point, they are cheap lol

[Stroked & Blown]

Originally Posted by Mrmaddbrad

but parts at cost are only slightly more than miata parts

Check your facts on that one. Parts & maintenance on Boxsters are MUCH more expensive than Miatas. And if you start looking at upgrades for AX, including tires, there's a big delta. I have some friends with Z06's & M3s that have purchased dedicated miatas for AX and track events because you can buy one, upgrade it, & run it for a season for the cost of a set of coilovers on their primary car. A miata with mild upgrades, A6's, and a good driver can be very competitive at AX, even the fast 2 mile course we run.

[Overdrive]

I can definitely see both sides of the discussion here. I can tell you're not an air-headed, snot-nosed kid who just wants to show off. I understand wanting to be different from the masses (in this case, your autocross competitors), and you have the advantage of working at a shop which specializes in cars such as a Boxster, plus a knowledge base for those cars that even those two decades older than you might not. If anything, it's a good thing you mentioned your age on here, but do understand that no one on here's trying to give you the "you're just a kid, maybe when you're older" lecture. They are indeed looking out for your best interests without even really knowing you personally, because that's just the sort of people we have on this board.

I think Perfectlap made some very important points and gave you some things to think about that are outside of, but can have a very heavy influence on, your ambitions to improve at autocross and owning a Boxster. What he's saying about (smartly) investing your money early, don't take that lightly. The only reason your peers aren't doing it is that they do not have enough examples of those who have done that and had success with it, and they can't be expected to practice something that they simply do not know or were never taught. So consider yourself (at least slightly) educated on the matter and given a strong recommendation to look into it further.

Before I get too long into that, I'll cut myself short, because we're still talking primarily about a car buying decision, here, which is a big deal for anyone, particularly for someone who is about to be 18.

I've got no clue how much it'd cost you to repair/replace a blown engine on a Miata, but I imagine it'll be significantly less than the cost to replace (since you're highly unlikely to have a "repair" situation) the engine on a Boxster. I'm sure you've probably read up on some of the failure points that this engine has (it's not just the IMS), and how catastrophic they can be. If not, spend some time on Mike Focke's google pages and Jake Raby's Flat 6 Innovations website, as well as LN Engineering's site. Any engine can fail, yes, but this is one aspect where the Porsche adds a rather large pouring of salt into the wound and hitting your wallet hard. Even with you doing a lot of the work yourself, it'd still be a huge chunk of change, especially for a young adult, and I know you'd take care of the car, but that hasn't stopped failures from happening to people who take very good care of theirs. To me that's a rather heavy cost difference to consider between the two cars.

Here's my bottom line: There's nothing that says you couldn't get yourself a Boxster. Your money, your decision. Yes, you have a lot of consideration to do, and while you may want that more instant gratification of having the car now and starting to build it up now and work on getting even faster with it now...it may be worth it to wait and use something that's more cost effective, even if only slightly, in the meantime, and be able to have the disposable income to own, maintain, and heavily repair a car like a Boxster comfortably. Trust me, there's no shortage of Boxsters, they're not going anywhere, and their market value may be pretty much in the pits right now, but you can still get yourself a car that you know works (a Miata, clearly ), and that you know you can buy, modify, and blow the doors off of others with at a fraction of the cost of just getting a Boxster, and work on saving up for the car you want (a Boxster, clearly ). Yes, a few hundred dollars' difference between things like tires or parts at cost right now isn't a huge hit to you now, but when you consider that that few hundred dollars today can be worth tens of thousands of dollars in just a few years' time if you put it in the right place(s), I feel you'd be hard-pressed not to do all you could to have that few hundred left over to put away/invest and get a return on it, which would allow you to very easily buy a Boxster, do what you want with/to it, and have plenty of cheddar left over, come whatever may. So spending a lot less on a car that will accomplish the same thing for you will allow you to put more of what you earn to work for you rather than just getting spent and lining someone else's pockets, and when it comes time for you to part with it you won't have invested as much into it, so the parting will be that much easier (I know you're not planning on getting rid of the Porsche, I'm just talking Miata here). As I was saying before, you're beyond your peers in a good few ways and in some of your thinking. Don't take what people are saying here as trying to shoot down or steal your dream from you. Rather, we're trying to help you find a way to enjoy it even more, for longer, and with less hardship. Short term pain for long term gain.

[Perfectlap]

Mrmaddbrad, Cheap in racing is not only a good thing it is the holy grail.

Very very very few cars can manage being competent and cheap.

If by cheap you mean flimsy, then yes that's true but it's also true about many other sports cars, including the early Boxster and 996 interior. Cars costing $50-$100+K.
(yep same interior on both). Ditto on most other commonly raced low cost sportscars from Japan and America. In order to reduce sports car weight on non-functional items you have two choices: expensive materials or budget. The Miata folks decided to put the money where it would improve the results on paper.


Also, with the exception of the GT's, Porsche's do not attract drivers on power.
If anything that's the last thing that pulls them into the brand. Even the standard Carrera didn't cross the 300 HP mark until the mid 2000's.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Mrmaddbrad

Yeah i totally agree. It is great advice. However, its not like a boxster is THAT much faster than an NB miata. Sure 60 hp sounds like a lot, but it still has over 400 lbs on one too. I agree on everything financially, but I have a hard time backing away because of a general bias of my age. I know parts are more and it's "too much to handle" supposedly, but parts at cost are only slightly more than miata parts, and they are just better made cars.

Honestly, when you get in a miata and drive it around for any length of time, it feels cheap, its still fun to drive and you feel completely at one with the car, but it does feel cheap. Probably because they are.... You can go buy a brand new one, full of options, with a retractable hard top, for just over $30,000... Case and point, they are cheap lol

On one point, I beg to disagree. I own both cars and have driven them both on the street and on the track and a stock Boxster is MUCH faster than stock NB Miata in both a straight line and through the curves.

Now, a SPEC Miata will typically be faster than a stock Boxster in the turns but will still lose ground on the straights.

With that being said, you are definitely correct that the Miata looks and feels "cheaper" than a Boxster. No surprise there, right? The Boxster is nearly double the price of the Miata and it shows.

I still say that if you really want a Boxster, buy one!

[The Radium King]

how 'bout a 944 turbo (951)? cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, fast, handles well. got a porsche logo on it.

[Mrmaddbrad]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

got a porsche logo on it.

Haha I'm not buying it for the symbol :P And actually, as my bimmer is broken down, im currently driving a 944 s2 that belongs to my shop. A ton of fun, but surprizingly its not to much for me to handle! Wow! Crazy, huh? lol

And thstone, thats exactly what i wanted to hear. Haha, probably just because it seems like youre more on my side of things lol. I'm not looking to build a spec car lol, or even get out of stock class. I mean maybe buy a front sway bar (if needed), maybe upgrade shocks. Maybe, and i strongly stress that word, I might get an aftermarket exhaust, and possibly a set of R-compounds.

And thats it! I'm not looking to put coil overs on, or an LSD, or anything crazy like that. I will need to buy a roll bar for my local hillclimb, but thats almost the exact same price as any other car lol.

And i'm not looking for a cheap car lol. I feel as though if i'm not going to buy what i want, I'm better off just waiting... There's no point in going from a car that I like but isn't exactly what i want, to yet again, a car that i like but isn't exactly what i want.

[Overdrive]

Just FYI, to my knowledge there isn't any front sway bar that has been made for the Boxster that doesn't have hinges on it (basically defeating the purpose), because there isn't really a whole lot of space in front to put in a bar, since the towers are covered by the plastic panels in front and any bar would have to cross over the battery. So unless you manage to find/fabircate a bar that's going to be a solid piece that will fit in there without having to rip anything out of the front trunk area, I'd say don't bother, as anything you put in there isn't really likely to tighten up the car's front end. You're probably going to find yourself more concerned with tightening up the rear end of the car for autocrossing.

Now that aside, if you have your heart set on it, then it doesn't matter what anyone on here says that isn't "go get a Boxster", because your mind is already made up. I wouldn't come looking for reassurances from us, because it doesn't come off as the most financially sound car choice for daily driving and autocrossing for even some 30-year-olds, let alone a 17-year-old. And that's not just to use your age against you for a cheap shot, because your situation isn't really the same as your typical 30-year-old, but you're also not raking in more dough than Bill Gates, I'm sure. People's initial reaction is to try and save you the trouble and experiences they've had with their choice to dive headlong into Boxster ownership whether they knew what they were getting into or not. We're not going to tell you the car's not worth getting, obviously, just that you really want to make sure that you can afford to own it comfortably.

Plan it out, do some number crunching. Look up what parts would cost you (and go for the higher end of the price ranges) to get an idea of how much, at worst, normal wear and tear parts would cost you at cost. And also look into what options you have for acquiring some parts that aren't normally the norm for parts that wear/fail, and how much those could cost you, be it at cost or otherwise (again, at the most).

Also keep in mind that you're probably going to have to sink a few grand into the car right from the start, unless you find a real gem, to have it ready for regular DD and AX duty, so take that figure into account, too.

So go through and realistically plan it out so you can know roughly how much money you'll need to have on hand for typical maintenance, with a few thousand on the side for any unscheduled maintenance, and a few thousand right up front for anything that needs immediate work when you purchase.