Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-2011, 05:54 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 32
Durametric Diagnostic Question

Guys I need some expert help still. I have tried to figure this out on my own but I am not there yet, and precious posts are.

I had a funny "diesel like" rattle when sitting more than 4 hours. Did some reading and read code with a scanner (misc cyl misfires bank 2) and concluded chain tensioner. Then car cel started flashing and car ran like missing a cylinder or 2. Changed out tensioner, no luck.

Broke down and bought Durametric and I get the codes (see attached) during short test. When I check actual available values, I get no Camshaft Position Bank 2 deviation reading. Nothing at all. I found the tech article on sensors, checked them out and they all apear to be connected just fine..

Yet I get a P1524 (Cam shaft adjusment bank 2 error. I have checked the sensors and assuming I know left and right, the position senors are all connected. What sensor is responsible for dev bank 2 reading?

Attached Images
     
Porsche Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 10:00 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 32
TMM-- Thanks that was what I was afraid of. I was hoping it might be a sensor or a wire issue. So is this a definate or is there anything I need to rule out first?

I finally bought a low profile hi lift jack today, Am I understanding correctly I need to drop the engine if this "bank 2"vario has gone kaput?

Anyone else please chime in with a second opinion/option, please!

Back in the day I could drop a VW bus engine in 12 minutes flat, somehow I am thinking this will not be so simple, I am sure...


Flat 4 VW Smiley



Flat Six Porsche Smiley
Porsche Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2011, 10:49 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,160
In the image you have, it does not appear that you have "selected" the cam deviation values (note the checks in the boxes below). The Durametric software is very capable, but takes some getting used to......

__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2011, 12:17 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 32
JFP, I was looking for you...
No we checked cam 1 Deviation, worked fine...

Look close there is NO Cam Deviation 2 listed... Thats my problem... Doesn't make sense unless the actuaor is electronically "dead"?

Last edited by Porsche Enthusiast; 08-15-2011 at 12:20 PM.
Porsche Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2011, 01:18 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,160
The actuator is not the source of the signal. The cam position sensors tell the DME where the cams are in realation to the output of the crank sensor. I'm not sure why the Durametric does not see the other sensor, but it could be fried or disconnected.

Each cylinder head has one, item #34 in the attached:



Shown here is the camshaft position sensor. There is one located on the top of the left cylinder head towards the front, and one on the right cylinder head towards the rear for the 5-chain motors used up to about 2001. For 2002 and later 3-chain motors, the sensor is located on the top of the left cylinder head towards the rear, and on the right cylinder head towards the front.


__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2011, 03:03 PM   #6
Opposed to Subie Burble
 
Overdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Central CT
Posts: 1,197
Garage
Sorry to not be posting something contributing to the resolution, but I have to ask just for my own understanding...are you saying that the car was idling for 4 hours?
__________________
-O/D

1997 Arctic Silver Boxster, 5-spd
IMSR + RMS
Robbins glass window top
Overdrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2011, 04:32 PM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 32
Over Drive, I meant engine not running, sitting quietly, not "idling". Initially I assumed the sound was from oil draining and it maybe it was just lifter chatter at first.

JFP, so I don't have to give up hope!

I found the same picture from pelican and checked the wiring, but I wasn't sure if the sensor was why no dev bank 2 on Durametric.

So it is that sensor that would send out the cam 2 deviation, meaning that is what I should do now, replace that sensor? And its easy too since it is bank 2 right behind the driver seat side of the engine?? Please say yes, that it will at least spare me for now dropping my engine!
Porsche Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2011, 07:50 PM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,160
The way the system works is the crank position sensor data is compared to the individual cam position sensors, and the “deviation” value is determined by an algorithm in the DME mathematically. The readout value is how far it is off “ideal”.

There are two cam position sensors, one on each bank, and I believe they are interchangeable, as well as being testable (they are a simple Hall Effect sensor that generates a signal when a ferrous alloy shutter passes nearby). You should be able to bench test the suspect, or swap them around to see if the reverse occurs. They cost between $70 and $150 each, aftermarket vs. OEM.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2011, 08:14 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 32
DUDE JFP YOU ROCK! I DOnt have to drop my engine yet, all is not lost, yet...

I REALLY did not want to dive in and drop this engine.. Not ready to tackle that yet...

And do you think that the sensor being out would cause the rattle at start up? Prior I was also getting mediocre starts in first, hesitation, and mediocre GPM. I have the hope that this sensor was dying and this will be the solution. Lets hope anyway.

You definatley deserve a smiley flat six!


Porsche Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2011, 08:18 PM   #10
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 32
One more really DUM question(Yes I spelled it D U M on purpose). Is left side of the car when you face it from front or back? In other words is driver side left or right?

Bank 2 is driver side of car? aka Driver side is Left? or right Bank? OIver thinking this...?
Porsche Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2011, 11:54 AM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,160
Ok, left and right in a car is always from the driver’s position (e.g.: left is his left). Bank one is the passenger’s side, cylinders 1-3.

I really do not think a bad sensor is making the noise, more likely it is a worn tensioner or chain paddle.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2011, 12:36 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 32
That has been the strange thing, the noise started a while back, and she ran ok with the exeption of slightly lugging out of first if I didn't heavy foot the peddle. Then as I was pulling out my drive, it started running really rough and threw the Flashing CEL.
Would this be symtomatic of a bad sensor? or tensioner/ paddle?

As you know we read with the ELM unit and got bank 2 cyl misfires. So I have changd out the tensioner on the driver side (I new which side was Bank 2, just didn't know left from right heh). The car actually runs slightly better than before and the CEL stil flashes and now I know it is probably the sensor throwing the CEL.

I will laugh maniacally if the tensioner on bank 1 is the one going bad, and it was the sensor throwing codes for bank 2.

Would a worn tensioner paddle throw a code?

I have a new sensor coming in this afternoon.
Porsche Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2011, 01:20 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,160
Worn paddles make noise and can give cam deviation values outside the limits (+/- 6 degrees), but I have never seen one cause a code per se.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 11:18 PM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 32
Still having same issue with DuraMetric... Help Anyone...

So now to recap, had issues using durametric to get a reading off the camshaft position 2 deviation under available actual values (NOT THERE! NOTHING) Cam Deviation 1 shows up.

I purchased a new sensor and changed out bank 2 cam position sensor (THE ONE BEHIND DRIVERS SEAT, RIGHT?). There is still no reading for bank 2 dev. I have checked the connection and wiring looks good. I have not tested sensor, but it is brand new. What else woulkd cause the sensor for bank 2 deviation to not show up in durametric?
Porsche Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 08:53 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,160
As the Durametric is reading it from the DME, the ECU must not be getting the signal. You may need to check the entire circuit from the sensor to the DME plug for continuity. For that, you will need a digital multimeter and a wiring diagram specific to your model and year in order to find the correct pins on the DME plug. If the wiring checks out, your next suspect is the DME itself.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 10:12 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 32
Ok, I noticed a strange phenominon. When I start the bank 2 camshaft under actuations, the car sputtered and died. I tried the same with Cam 1 start, and nothing happened. What is that about? are the actuators are working at least? Am I right in this? Why would 1 not do anything. Is this normal? Is the car sputter and dying normal if you start cam shaft actuators. Is it bad to start those actuators while the car is running?
Porsche Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 12:01 PM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,160
When you activate the VarioCam units, you should hear a click, after which the idle may change a bit; but it should not die, and you should see the cam values move on the Durametric display.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 02:54 PM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 32
When I actuated bank 1 nothing happened to the engine while running, I can hear a slight click I think when the engine isn't running.
When I clicked Bank 2 start while running, she sputtered hard and coughed out.

Another odd occurance, when I turn on AC she runs better and the CEL goes solid. If I turn it off CEL stays solid for about 2 minutes then starts fladhing again. Is it the sensor not adjusting, and the AC kicks up idle closer to the existing default no sensor running range?

I found what pins go where (25 on Connection) and how tho test the connection and the sensor. Yup climbing the learning curve, thanks for helping me narrow it down. If you had to guess statistically, what direction should I test first? start at DME and move towards sensor or start at sensor going back to DME? Just wanting to rule out most likely candidate issue first.
Porsche Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 03:43 PM   #19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,160
Direction is unimportant as you would be looking at continuity, which is a loop. Once you confirm continuity, meaning that the wiring is intact, next look at resistance, which should be very low. I would also look at checking the wiring to a ground source, looking for a possible short.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2011, 08:46 PM   #20
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 32
Test results, still no joy!

Okey I went about testing a little differently, but I think I accomplished what I need to know. If someone can verify (JFP help!)

We tested the actual sensor using a Power Probe III,

Sensor itself had three prongs.

With ignition on pin 1 = 12v, Pin 2 = 4.5v, pin 3 = good ground

Went to ecm, checked against manual and all data for proper prongs and wire color
We pinned into the wires post ecu, since we dont have the test adapter.
Double checked on all data to solenoid as Brown/ red and brown / black

Resullts
ignition off brown/red = 12v and brown/black = 0v
ignition on brown/red = 12v and brown and black = 1v

So it seems the electronics is all connected?

still get these off durametric, I am at a loss, still no bank 2 cam variation
did I right, or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance guys!
Attached Images
         

Porsche Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page