Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-18-2011, 05:34 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 41
Dead Boxster?

Yesterday while driving on the freeway my engine light started flashing. I was just a few miles away from the Porsche dealer at the time and was actually headed there for my 90K maintenance. About 30 seconds after the engine light started blinking the oil light started blinking. I quickly got off the freeway and as I did so the engine shut off. I didn't hear any strange noises from the engine and saw no oil leaking when I looked under the car.

I got a tow to the Porsche dealer and then caught a ride a to my office a few miles away. The Porsche service guy called later and said they didn't see anything wrong with the electronics so they suspect the motor was history. Since it is an old car and not worth a lot, the service guy asked if I wanted to pay them to go ahead and look further. Of course I said yes.

He called me back later to say the mechanic found metal pieces from the engine in the oil filter, which he said meant the engine was ruined. The options he gave were for me to tow it away or get a new engine for $19K. That seems like a bad investment since the car is a 2000.

So now what? I am thinking I should get it towed to an independent mechanic and have them actually get inside the engine and look around. Or is that just a waste of money? If nothing else, I'd like to satisfy my curiosity of wth happened. And if I do that, and assuming they also say that the engine is damaged beyond repair, should I consider a rebuilt engine or just forget about the car?

Surfncpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 05:41 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ontario,Canada
Posts: 22
No right answer to be given , but the one that works for you. However for 19K you can find the same car with noticeably less mileage and less money. If money isn't the problem then I would look to one of Raby's upgraded engines so atleast you'll get a power boost and a engine that has had the trouble spots addresses somewhat and not just a Porsche rebuild with the exact same potential failure. Just some thoughts.

Good Luck
Todd.
tdurnan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 07:12 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 41
Thanks for the feed back.

What I was hoping to get from this car was to be able to commute to work in it for about another year, 50mi per day, and then give it to my son when he turns 16 next summer. He'd get a cheap (hopefully) car that looks very nice. I'd get a new car then. So I am looking for the cheapest option to keep it running. I guess my cut off would be about $10K but half of that would be more palatable.
Surfncpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 08:19 AM   #4
Porsche "Purist"
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,095
Garage
Todd, I feel your pain. I've been struggling with the same decision since my 01 blew in Oct.

The cheapest way out is a used motor, but if one goes that route the "while you're in there" costs can add up quickly. (AOS, clutch, flywheel, water pump, rollers, motor mount, RMS, Jakes IMS, coolant tank, hoses, etc can easily cost as much as the used motor).

Here's a quote I obtained for just the motor delivered to my shop.

There is a core charge on the engines so if you decide to go with an engine that is not your original, you will not be able to have your core charge refunded. Here are some prices to give you an idea:

2.7 motor $12,690 with a core charge of $3,333

3.2 motor $12,690 with a core charge of $2,620

3.4 motor $11,160 with a core charge of $6,765

3.6 motor with a power kit $15,415 with a core charge of $3,300

Shipping an engine would vary on some options but should be around the $250-$300 range.

Since we are a Porsche dealership, these are genuine factory Porsche parts.
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S. 2002 996TT. PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...

Last edited by Paul; 06-19-2011 at 08:27 AM.
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 12:13 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 41
I'm still trying to come to grips with this. So when there are metal bits of the engine showing up in the oil filter, is it a 100% (or 90% or whatever) certainty the engine is ruined beyond repair and will need to be replaced? I need to decide if I am going to get the car towed to an independent mechanic or a salvage yard.
Surfncpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 12:44 PM   #6
Porsche "Purist"
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,095
Garage
From your posts so far, the engine is totaled. To make sure you could have a compression test done. I suspect you will have 0 in all cylinders.

These cars have value even with a blown motor, if you decide not to fix it, I suggest you put it on eBay or Craigslist.
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S. 2002 996TT. PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 12:46 PM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,279
Most likely, the problem is serious; the only way you are going to know for sure is to have someone that knows what they are doing pull the sump cover and take a look. You don't find metal in the oil filters of health motors.....

If the engine is toast, the last place I would go for another one is a dealer. You should be placing a call to Jake Raby; he has everything from warmed over stock engines to full tilt race motors, the later of which sell for about the same as an OEM rebuilt motor. He has a program to pull and replace the problem parts on used but serviceable engines, like the IMS (which is probably what took yours out) and offers some level of warranty as well.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 01:15 PM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 41
They did say the motor would start but it was misfiring and they thought likely to seize up any second.

It's just hard for me to fathom that the engine can't be fixed for a few thousand dollars, but then my knowledge of car engines is minuscule.
Surfncpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 01:26 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Todd, I feel your pain. I've been struggling with the same decision since my 01 blew in Oct.

The cheapest way out is a used motor, but if one goes that route the "while you're in there" costs can add up quickly. (AOS, clutch, flywheel, water pump, rollers, motor mount, RMS, Jakes IMS, coolant tank, hoses, etc can easily cost as much as the used motor).

Here's a quote I obtained for just the motor delivered to my shop.

There is a core charge on the engines so if you decide to go with an engine that is not your original, you will not be able to have your core charge refunded. Here are some prices to give you an idea:

2.7 motor $12,690 with a core charge of $3,333

3.2 motor $12,690 with a core charge of $2,620

3.4 motor $11,160 with a core charge of $6,765

3.6 motor with a power kit $15,415 with a core charge of $3,300

Shipping an engine would vary on some options but should be around the $250-$300 range.

Since we are a Porsche dealership, these are genuine factory Porsche parts.
Those are prices for rebuilt engines? Rebuilt with the extras you mention at the top?
Surfncpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 01:29 PM   #10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bastrop, TX
Posts: 705
if the motor could be rebuilt, the labor alone would be more than a few thousand.


The cheapest way......ebay has running motors for 3-5K. buy it, pull yours drop another in.

Then trade it in and be honest about the motor.
__________________
2002 S
Pedro rear stabilizer bar, CF strut braces, Maxspeed headers with 100 cell cats, Fabspeed cat bypass pipes, H&R springs with M030 setup, TRG rear links, EVO air intake, B&M Short shift kit, Raby IMS upgrade, Raby underdrive pulley
jhandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 03:38 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 287
Caution thread jump...Paul given your standing can

I safely assume that your maintenance was flawless and the car provided absolutely no warning prior to failure?

Seems quite unsettling to have your car go boom to all us DIYer and non-wrenchers.
urban_legend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 04:52 PM   #12
Porsche "Purist"
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,095
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfncpa
Those are prices for rebuilt engines? Rebuilt with the extras you mention at the top?
They are Porsche crate motors ready to lift into the car. They do not include at least the flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate or any of the cooling hoses.
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S. 2002 996TT. PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 05:06 PM   #13
Porsche "Purist"
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,095
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by urban_legend
I safely assume that your maintenance was flawless and the car provided absolutely no warning prior to failure?

Seems quite unsettling to have your car go boom to all us DIYer and non-wrenchers.
No warning whatsoever, no metal or other debris in the oil, all chains intact, IMS intact. No compression in all cylinders.

It failed while trying to start it. Cranked over about 2 times, fired a plug or 2 then spun free, no noises.

This is the first engine failure I've had in a lifetime of enjoying numerous Porsches. I performed all maintenance better and sooner than Porsche recommends. Very unsettling.

Some day I'll have the time to tear the motor down and see what happened. My best guess is that either the sprocket on the IMS or crankshaft slipped on its shaft. I'm in the process of getting a used motor ready to install.
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S. 2002 996TT. PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 05:39 PM   #14
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
Though this one may not have been a true IMS Bearing failure, it does sound like a mode of failure that my IMS Guardian would have provided early detection of.
__________________
Jake Raby/www.flat6innovations.com
IMS Solution/ Faultless Tool Inventor
US Patent 8,992,089 &
US Patent 9,416,697
Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2011, 05:50 PM   #15
Porsche "Purist"
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,095
Garage
Jake,

Back when I was still flying, one of the alarm lights on a helicopter was "chip detector" and when it lit, it meant there were metal chips in the main rotor gear box.

Perhaps something like this for the main oil sump would be a good addition to your product line?
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S. 2002 996TT. PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 05:05 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sanford NC
Posts: 2,376
Jake...Gardian available when?

Patents take a long time (>1 year in my experience)
mikefocke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 06:36 AM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Depends on the day of the week....
Posts: 1,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Jake,

Back when I was still flying, one of the alarm lights on a helicopter was "chip detector" and when it lit, it meant there were metal chips in the main rotor gear box.

Perhaps something like this for the main oil sump would be a good addition to your product line?
Being a pilot as well, I've often wondered why no one has thought to bring this over to the automotive world (oddly enough, for those who don't know, typically aviation technology is FAR behind automotive). Most all turboprop engines have chip detectors (at least all the Pratts do, never flown a Garrett), and if you ever see that light pop on in flight you better be feathering and shutting down that engine.

In any piston engine, obviously there shouldn't be metal in the oil, but, if anything starts to fail and makes metal, a chip light could potentially offer the same advanced warning that it does in a turboprop.
__________________
Boxster S
Cloudsurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 12:38 PM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 41
One of the reputable shops here in Houston says they can install a rebuilt engine, with upgrades like the improved IMS (assumed that's Jake's) and other things to make the engine more dependable than a new one, for about $14K.

I'm leaning towards that route as I really don't want a car note that would come with a $35K-$45K certified pre-owned. I really don't want to do the "sensible" thing and get new or near new regular car either.

Am I nuts?
Surfncpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 02:50 PM   #19
Porsche "Purist"
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,095
Garage
If they give you a couple of years of warranty, probably not nuts.

How's your roof, tires, struts, rotors, track arms, window regulators, etc. doing?

Your existing car will probably go for $3000 to $5000 with a dead motor, add that to the $14,000 that will probably become higher once they start and see what you can buy for $17,000 to $19,000 would be my suggestion.
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S. 2002 996TT. PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 03:02 PM   #20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Depends on the day of the week....
Posts: 1,400
If I were in your position, I would either sell the car as a roller and go buy something else, or if you are set on putting a new motor into the car, go with a 996 based motor and enjoy the added performance. If you go the latter route, while everything is out, I'd freshen the gearbox and install an LSD.

For reference, the IMS assemblies are made by LN Engineering, and if you do go with a used motor, I would absolutely toss a new IMS bearing in the thing.

__________________
Boxster S
Cloudsurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page