Guidance on my shift quality? - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

JoeFromPA · 04-03-2011, 07:53 PM

Hi all,

99 boxster, 59k miles, easily driven most of it's life.

Here are my symptoms:

Overall, shifting is decent. But the first to 2nd shift almost always takes about 2 seconds before the shifter slides into the gate. No grinding, or mechanical feel - just completely balks at going into the gear.

I thought this was definitively due to the front engine mount wearing out and pulling the cable, but there's no change with the new engine mount.

In most other gears, i feel some resistance but it's minor or could even be there from the factory.

It definitely feels cable related by nature - no grinding or mechanical sound/feel coming through the shifter.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for fixing this? I don't mind the long-ish throws and such....but I'm starting to shift 1st to 3rd because by the time I can get the shifter to move into 2nd, the RPMs have already fallen almost to idle.

Joe

P.s. It seems to get very slightly better once the car is warm, but it's still a balky shift.

blue2000s · 04-03-2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Hi all,

99 boxster, 59k miles, easily driven most of it's life.

Here are my symptoms:

Overall, shifting is decent. But the first to 2nd shift almost always takes about 2 seconds before the shifter slides into the gate. No grinding, or mechanical feel - just completely balks at going into the gear.

I thought this was definitively due to the front engine mount wearing out and pulling the cable, but there's no change with the new engine mount.

In most other gears, i feel some resistance but it's minor or could even be there from the factory.

It definitely feels cable related by nature - no grinding or mechanical sound/feel coming through the shifter.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for fixing this? I don't mind the long-ish throws and such....but I'm starting to shift 1st to 3rd because by the time I can get the shifter to move into 2nd, the RPMs have already fallen almost to idle.

Joe

P.s. It seems to get very slightly better once the car is warm, but it's still a balky shift.

I wouldn't rule out the syncro. From the description that's what it sounds like to me.

clickman · 04-03-2011, 09:32 PM

If it was a synchro, I would think that playing with the RPMs would maybe find the right spot to make the shift easier. You could give it a try.

jaykay · 04-04-2011, 06:10 AM

Double clutch with a throttle blip on upshifts. An improvement in shifts may point to synchro mesh problems. No change in shift quality may point to cable problems. How is your oil level?

j.fro · 04-04-2011, 07:30 AM

I know the 6sp and 5sp are completely different animals, but for the 6sp (Boxster and 911), replacing the factory detent with an updated version made by Gbox works wonders. Give Gbox a call and see what their thoughts are on the 5sp.

Quickurt · 04-04-2011, 03:45 PM

I believe if it were a cable problem, it would be the same feel going from third to fourth and even downshifting back through the gears. It would be stiff on every move from the forward to the rear knob position. That would be pulling the cable forward, out of the cable housing.
Is it the same balky feel when down shifting from third to second?

JoeFromPA · 04-04-2011, 04:16 PM

I'll try playing with the RPMs - no idea how trans fluid level is, is there a dipstick on this car or just a fill hole?

Worthwhile to swap trans fluid at this mileage/year? I like redline products but I've heard to stay with the Porsche fluid in the trans...

It's balky downshifting from 3rd to 2nd, but normal short gear balkiness i'd say when you get into the lower gears.

Mao_Junior · 07-04-2011, 06:42 PM

Hey all! Long time Porsche owner (mostly ol' ones, last car was '69 912), but recently purchased 2000 S. The car drives like a dream. Shifting thru all gears is buttery smooth, except for the shift from first to second. No noise, not a grinding feel, but feels like it makes a gentle stop before fully going down into second. Feels more like the shift from first to second has two points instead of the one long shift downward. New clutch and motor mounts done at 88k according to prior owner records. Car has 95k on it. Enjoy reading this forum, and appreciate the friendly environment and continual sharing of info. 3rd to second on downshift is as smooth as 2nd up to 3rd.

Thoughts? TIA

san rensho · 07-05-2011, 02:34 AM

Try this. A splitsecond before you are going to shift from 1st tto 2nd, pull back on the shift lever, not hard, just apply some gentle pressure. Then, when you put the clutch in, you should feel the lever release and then go into second without having to apply any additional pressure to the lever. If it shifts smoothly doing this, then its just your shift technique, not the synchro.

Mao_Junior · 07-05-2011, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by san rensho

Try this. A splitsecond before you are going to shift from 1st tto 2nd, pull back on the shift lever, not hard, just apply some gentle pressure. Then, when you put the clutch in, you should feel the lever release and then go into second without having to apply any additional pressure to the lever. If it shifts smoothly doing this, then its just your shift technique, not the synchro.

Hey! thank you for such a quick response! That did help a bit! Why is that? Still not 100%, but it feels easier doing it as you said. Also feels better when the shift is made slower and more deliberate. My buddy has a 2002 S, so we are going to switch and compare. I will report back.

thanks!

san rensho · 07-05-2011, 01:46 PM

Whats happening is whenever you upshift, when you press the clutch, the input shaft will slow down because it is now disconnected from the motor. If the input shaft slows down past the point where it will mesh with the next gear, then the synchro has to speed up the input shaft to the point it will mesh. The time it takes the synchro to get back up to speed is the "balk" that you feel.

This happens because most people tend to depress the clutch fairly early and hesitate before they start to move the shift lever. This hesitation is enough time to let the input shaft slow too much and make the shift balk.

Mao_Junior · 07-06-2011, 05:24 AM

San Rensho,

This morning I fiddled with different styles after reading much on the internet of notchy, balky 2nd gears on 6 speeds. I even attempted a sort of double clutch, but that wasn't something I wanted to get into mostly driving on Brooklyn streets. Instead of just coming straight down sort of forcefully, I let the knob find its way more naturally. It seems if I cheat towards neutral than back down into second that the flow is immensely smoother. Additionally, I wasn't thinking so much about shifting into second (as I was prior excepting to feel resistance each time) allowing for more enjoyable driving. I'm still anxious to drive my friend's 2002 S, and have him drive mine as he is much more familiar with these cars and drives competitively. Thanks again!

ekam · 07-06-2011, 06:12 AM

You shouldn't need to muscle shifting gears whether you're upshifting or downshifting. 1st to 2nd gear shift is a bit more tough in middle of winter but that's about it. I have the 9x7 shifter assembly on mine which shortens the shift a bit but still makes it a fairly comfortable experience.

It's smooth like a bolt gun.

san rensho · 07-06-2011, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mao_Junior

San Rensho,

This morning I fiddled with different styles after reading much on the internet of notchy, balky 2nd gears on 6 speeds. I even attempted a sort of double clutch, but that wasn't something I wanted to get into mostly driving on Brooklyn streets. Instead of just coming straight down sort of forcefully, I let the knob find its way more naturally. It seems if I cheat towards neutral than back down into second that the flow is immensely smoother. Additionally, I wasn't thinking so much about shifting into second (as I was prior excepting to feel resistance each time) allowing for more enjoyable driving. I'm still anxious to drive my friend's 2002 S, and have him drive mine as he is much more familiar with these cars and drives competitively. Thanks again!

Double clutching won't help on the upshift, only on downshifts. Unless there is something wrong with the tranny, the quicker you can upshift, the smoother. Thats why preloading the shifter slightly before you put the clutch in usually gives a very quick, smooth shift.

Mao_Junior · 07-06-2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekam

You shouldn't need to muscle shifting gears whether you're upshifting or downshifting. 1st to 2nd gear shift is a bit more tough in middle of winter but that's about it. I have the 9x7 shifter assembly on mine which shortens the shift a bit but still makes it a fairly comfortable experience.

It's smooth like a bolt gun.

thanks guys!

Ekam, so if the problem for me isn't technique than I should look towards something mechanical? I've read of others changing mounts and fluids. I'm going to continue babying it until my friend has a look, then I will have mechanic do a thorough look during pending oil change.

Mao_Junior · 07-09-2011, 07:32 AM

san rensho, ekam: drove my friends 2002 S on thursday and the shifting felt remarkably similar altho his was a tad looser. I would then have to say that there is nothing amiss with my car, and maybe nothing more than adapting better to shifting my car. My daily driver before this was a '69 912. I can't remember the last time I enjoyed owning a car as much. I'm quite happy with my new used boxster. Thanks again, guys!