Why do I need an S and what year

[mikefocke]

Originally Posted by jcb986

Look at it this way...if it looks like it's been coursed or hot dogged, walk away. Look for one with no more than 60K miles on it if it's your toy. A daily driver would have 20-30K on it with no mods. A one owner with a service history is a big positive but does not guarantee any future problems. I personally like the TIP which translate in less money being spent on clutch, RMS or IMS. TIP owners seem to have less expenses on their ownership over, say 5 years. Mine, pictured here in this email had 62k on it, one owner, absolutely well taken care of and the previous owner was a PCA member. I new I would spend a least $2K on it to do the things a 60K P-car needed and it has only cost me $1500 to take care of the maintenance with $800 being spent on new tires. Do not buy because it's cheap...to me that means this one is costing the owner a lot of money or a lot needs to be spent on it. Buyer beware, always.

Isn't it odd that Jake says a TIP is both more likely to have an IMS problem and is more expensive to have an IMSR. (Yes, I own a TIP>)

[jcb986]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

Isn't it odd that Jake says a TIP is both more likely to have an IMS problem and is more expensive to have an IMSR. (Yes, I own a TIP>)

I would say at least 9 out of 10 IMS failures where with standards than autos on this forum......?????

[sd_boxster]

If I were buying now, I'd hit the Porsche dealerships to see the inventory of CPO Boxsters. I paid $25K for my '03 - with just 22K miles - in September of 08, and I suspect there are more deals today than a couple of years ago.

You'll pay more for CPO with a warranty than you would private-party. Mine cost about $3K more than a comparable private party car. Peace of mind for $1,500 a year... I was willing to pay it.

[johnsimion]

Originally Posted by Stephan Silverman

I want a used Boxster and am on a limited budget. I would like to spend around $20,000.

I was told to absolutely get the S for the performance and absolutely get a 2003 or later. What do you experienced owners think? Are these important? I do like as much performance I can get from a stock car. But does the S matter that much and why a 2003?
Steve

++++++

1) If you are mostly driving to the mall on city streets and at semi-legal speeds on the interstate, or if you're out in the twisties behind an old pickup truck driving 45 mph, the base model is just as fast as an "S." In fact, an old Toyota Corolla is nearly as fast, costs less, and probably is more reliable.

2) If your wife insists on riding with you and then gets after you to slow down all the time, the base model is a better choice ... unless of course you are actively seeking divorce.

3) The dude in the next lane in the Corvette at the stop light is still going to outrace you when the light turns green, no matter which model you buy -- unless you are committed to spending several thousand dollars more to buy a bunch of speed equipment, that will void your warranty and probably make your car blow up.

4) The general public doesn't know the difference between an "S" and a base model. The base model lets you have the prestige of driving a "Porsh" for a much lower cost. Within this community, the base is the Rodney Dangerfield of Porsches.

5) If you never drive an "S," you can't miss what you never had. Ignorance is bliss.

[yelojkt]

Judging from the list of cars you have owned and your statement that the Miata was perfect just boring (which to me says underpowered) than you should go with an S. You could not mod a base to the level of an S for anywhere near the extra couple thousand you would have to pay to get an S over a base. More HP, better suspension, better brakes and more tire.

[ekam]

Over here, if you're caught speeding 50km/h (31mph) over the speed limit the police can tow your vehicle on the spot and suspend your license for 7 days.

Mind you also the 6 speed have weak second gear synchros. That's actually more likely to fail down the line than getting IMS failure.

http://www.986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20078

[extanker]

Originally Posted by johnsimion

++++++

1) If you are mostly driving to the mall on city streets and at semi-legal speeds on the interstate, or if you're out in the twisties behind an old pickup truck driving 45 mph, the base model is just as fast as an "S." In fact, an old Toyota Corolla is nearly as fast, costs less, and probably is more reliable.

2) If your wife insists on riding with you and then gets after you to slow down all the time, the base model is a better choice ... unless of course you are actively seeking divorce.

3) The dude in the next lane in the Corvette at the stop light is still going to outrace you when the light turns green, no matter which model you buy -- unless you are committed to spending several thousand dollars more to buy a bunch of speed equipment, that will void your warranty and probably make your car blow up.

4) The general public doesn't know the difference between an "S" and a base model. The base model lets you have the prestige of driving a "Porsh" for a much lower cost. Within this community, the base is the Rodney Dangerfield of Porsches.

5) If you never drive an "S," you can't miss what you never had. Ignorance is bliss.

very well said

[BerneseMtnDog]

For some people the extra HP with the "S" is important (although mostly psychological). I've driven both and for normal daily driving either would be fine. It's just not that big of a difference in most driving cases. IMO the biggie is to find a car with a good service history and about 50k to 60k miles or so. Whether "S" or base I wouldn't care but it needs to have a history of responsible ownership. At my age collecting horsepower isn't as much a priority as it had been 20 years ago.

As for years to look at, I personally like the looks of the 986 better than 987 but that's me. I would stay away from the 99's and older. They seem to have more problems.

Steve

[sasha055]

I did a car swap with one of my friends and here what I felt:
Cars: Mine is 2000 Base, 70K, has 18" wheels and 997 shifter
Friends car: 2001 S 55K, has a factory package with PSE (not sure what it includes) 18" wheels

We swapped cars for 2 days, both cars are daily drivers, no performance upgrades.
My impressions:
First day I was impressed! S has more low end torque (under 3k rpm) and is getting speed faster, It's noticeable stiffer which was really nice on Highway ramps, 1st gear is shorter so I didn't have to downshift to 1st when traffic was slowing down to 10mph. (with 5 speed 10mph is about 1.2Krpm which is bad for IMS)

The not so good:
- S is stiffer and it get's annoying after 1st day especially with "smooth" seattle roads.
- Maybe I'm used to 5 speed but it seems that I had to shift a lot between 2-3-4th gears it's easier with 5 speed
- S still "feels like a porsche" only after 3.5-4K RPMs, and after 4K RPMs base feels just the same (I didn't feel any difference)
- S is speeding faster and I missed that "I'm accelerating" feeling
- PSE is LOUD, and S in general is feeling louder (even tire noise)
- 997 shifter is a MUST!
- starting from a green light is kinda the same unless you rev the engine, which is fun but you cann't do it every time, clutch costs a lot.
- White gauges are very distracting

Again it's my daily driver, I don't track it so after driving S for 2 days I'm over "should've bought ans S" feeling.
My friend paid almost twice the price for his car (mine was 9k, his 17k)
Would I buy an "S" if I had the chance? YES because I'm still young and I want anything faster bigger better... would I pay more then a couple of grands for it.. definetely NO

Funny thing: my friend told me that he hates how stiff his car is after driving my base

Thanks
Sasha

[yelojkt]

Thanks sasha very well stated. You have now solidified that I will get an S. I will live with days on end of getting bounced around on city streets to enjoy the performance of the stiffer suspension on the open road, on-ramps and the track.

[ekam]

According to Mikefocke's website...

Under 2003 changes:
Base model gets same suspension as 2002 S model.

[Steve Tinker]

Regarding suspension "harshness", I found that tyre type and pressure are critical to comfort & roadholding - more so than the technical differences between base & S suspension.
Top quality tyres like Michelin Pilot PP2's with relatively soft sidewalls ride far superior on a Boxster compared to cheaper stiffer walled tyres like Khumo or Goodyear.
On the technical side of the S equation, don't rule out the value of the bigger brakes (Brembo monoblocks) and cross drilled rotors, coupled with an extra coolant radiator in the nose plus a bigger water/oil heat exchanger.
These mods alone are worth a lot of kudus & smack of upgraded "sports car" type performance above the base model......

[mikefocke]

I'm surprised someone hasn't mentioned some:

cost of tires on larger diameter wheels

frequency of CV joint boot failures on 6 speed cars (versus 5-speed or TIP)

[JTP]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

I'm surprised someone hasn't mentioned some:

cost of tires on larger diameter wheels

frequency of CV joint boot failures on 6 speed cars (versus 5-speed or TIP)

Why do 6 speeds have a higher CVJ boot failure?

[Perfectlap]

my previous car was a Miata. I changed the shocks/springs twice (KYBs were awesome for that car, Tokis not so much), shock mounts in the rear for more travel, BBS wheels, exhaust, ceramic headers, intake, full aero package, low profile headlights, glass top, MP3 CD player (a big deal in 1998) and a prsitine hard top.
Selling that car was a dumb move but having two roadsters seemed excessive. I should have kept it as an autocrosser. At any rate that car had the shifter kart for the road feel about it that the Boxster does not have. The Boxster feels more like a full sized sports car, that sits higher and dupes you into thinking you aren't really going so fast. The Miata really let you know how fast you were going because it was a tin can. I'm sure the Lotus has a similar feel. To tell you the truth I had a lot more fun driving one of the newer Mini Coopers than the Boxster S.
You just don't interact with the gear box in the same way with the Porsche.
But for power over 200 HP and real world practicality the Boxster still sets the bar amongst roadsters. The S2000 was a most excellent car as well but looked a little generic to me and seat position was kinda awkward for me. I knew a guy who raced in some junior formulas against one of the big F1 stars and when I arrived with the Boxster S he was more excited than I was. He said this car does everything perfectly and would have been his first choice but settled on an S2000 instead because he feared the upkeep of a car that would be tracked/autox'd.

I'd wait for the 3.4 Boxsters to come down in price. Which given the way this economy is moving shouldn't be that long. I'm not crazy about 987 styling but there is no debating the egineering and reliability improvements. If I could retrofit real retractcable soft top (minust the motor) using ball bearings and a manual pull to a Boxster Spyder I'd be all over that.

[Steve Tinker]

Originally Posted by JTP

Why do 6 speeds have a higher CVJ boot failure?

I believe the drive shafts are mounted at a more acute angle on the six speeder compared with the 5 speed.
Mine had to be replaced at 40,000 miles because 2 were already split and 2 had started de-laminating.

[JTP]

Originally Posted by Steve Tinker

I believe the drive shafts are mounted at a more acute angle on the six speeder compared with the 5 speed.
Mine had to be replaced at 40,000 miles because 2 were already split and 2 had started de-laminating.

Thanks Steve, that's interesting. I've had to replace two of mine at around 40k miles also. I never considered the 6-spd transaxle would put the axles at a different angle than others.

[sd_boxster]

Back to what I think is the crux of the matter - S versus Non-S on a tight budget - I'd still go with a CPO non-S instead of a private-party S.

If you're going to take your Boxster to the drag strip, it won't matter anyway. If you're going to take it to the autocross, buy the S (it'll be faster and you'll be voiding your warranty anyway if the dealer finds out the car was tracked). If you want an awesome car with the peace of mind that you won't be on the hook for 12 grand if your motor grenades 6 months from now, buy the CPO non-S.

My other coupe is a 96 C4 with an LT1. My Corvette Jedi mechanic and I have tinkered to the point where it's now making 350+ HP at the wheels, I've gutted some weight out of it to bring it close to the 986's weight, and with the Dana 44 3.73 rear end, it is a rocket. At the drag strip, hooking up is a challenge, and if I don't back off on the 1-2 shift, I'll waste a second or two doing a second burnout. But the Boxster, even with roughly half the WHP, is a much more fun car, and I drive it more agressively than I do the Vette because it is more capable and predictable.

So anyway, I ramble. You won't want to kill yourself 6 months from now if you buy a non-S instead of an S, but if you are the proud owner of a rolling chassis six months from now because you bought Tom Slick's ragged-out S... well... :ah:

[Perfectlap]

by the way to the OP,
if you decide on a 986S or a 987 with the 3.2 or 3.4...just my opinion, but a car at this curb weight needs at least 240 HP. But it this way, at under 240 it's all driver. At 240'ish it's a even mix of driver and engine. At over 300 its most the car doing the work. Coming out of turns under braking the mid egine set up "comes alive" if you will with 240 HP. Even the S2000 despite their torque issues, well the early ones at least, and their engines sitting just behind the front shock mounts, still benefited greatly from this amount of power. I'm sure the engineers at Honda tinkered with different outputs to arrive at this sweet spot on power. If you recall that car was well received right out of the box while many had some issues with the original Boxster coming in under 240 HP at first.

In terms of real world practicality, having 240 HP (or whatever that translates at the wheels) is very useful in merging on highways and overtaking some of these minivans and cross overs with surprisingly big engines that always seem to be in the way or doing parallels with each other on the highway.

[Stephan Silverman]

After much study I just bought a 2002 Boxster S in Speed Yellow with manual transmission and 50K miles for $17,000.00. The was first checked out for me by a Porsche only mechanic. There aren't many options on this one but I don't care. Sorry no PSM but I'm a conservative driver anyway. Tires are new, top is fine, clutch is new, rear shaft seal has been fixed, etc. Pretty much not a scratch on the exterior. Seats are perfect.

Love the car. Really enjoying it.

Would like a stereo that has bluetooth and iphone /ipod connection.

Also would like to pull out the cd trays and put a cubby in there.

Any ideas?