987 owners...no offence - Page 4 - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

pothole · 07-05-2010, 07:14 AM

What I think is incredible about the concept is that it's nearly 20 years old but you could almost stick it on a show stand today as a concept and it would look new and fresh. That kind of informs what I prefer about the 986. It's simpler and more timeless. It's aging really well, better than the 987, I reckon.

blue2000s · 07-05-2010, 07:21 AM

Great curves in this view

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/2009-11-04_1993_Porsche_Boxster_Concept.jpg

pothole · 07-05-2010, 07:30 AM

Brilliant. I also love the way they did the front shut line - how it starts on the bumper, carries right through in between the headlamp and turn-signal light in the main light cluster and then feeds seamlessly into the hood/bumper shutline. They carried this over onto the production 986, though slightly less dramatically, which is one reason why it's so resolved and clean. The 987 is a clutter of lines and intersections, some of which end rather abruptly. It's simply not as deft or resolved.

JTP · 07-05-2010, 07:57 AM

This is starting to sound like a Mustang vs Camaro debate except it's debating between the same car.
I remember when the concept car was introduced. I immediately fell in love with it. Same thing when I first saw a Boxster on the road in early '97, I knew I had to get one. I love my 986 but I can appreciate the new designs too. I really like the 987-2.
Atleast Porsche preserves the overall design of their cars from generation to generation. Not like alot of other companies where the same model is completely different from one year to the next.

Overdrive · 07-06-2010, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTP

This is starting to sound like a Mustang vs Camaro debate except it's debating between the same car.
I remember when the concept car was introduced. I immediately fell in love with it. Same thing when I first saw a Boxster on the road in early '97, I knew I had to get one. I love my 986 but I can appreciate the new designs too. I really like the 987-2.
Atleast Porsche preserves the overall design of their cars from generation to generation. Not like alot of other companies where the same model is completely different from one year to the next.

Definitely agree, JTP, though I think a healthy debate is quite alright.

Overall, you're correct, and the design hasn't changed so severely that one can't recognize the car in an instant. There's things to appreciate in the design of both generations.

Another thing to keep in mind is the compromises designers have to make with new safety standards for bumpers and such, where hoodlines now have to be a certain distance from the front bumper because people like to walk in front of buses and get hit by the passing cars, it would seem.

This also requires a slight change in the car's body design, as the rules were quite different even just 4 years ago, so that could explain some of the changes seen of recent.

pothole · 07-08-2010, 04:31 PM

Not to labour the point, but I spotted another interesting (well, to me!) difference that kind of speaks to my point, this time at the rear.

On the 986, look how the side shutline on the trunk / bootlid feeds seamlessly down into the rear light cluster and then curves elegantly around the bottom of the cluster and eventually into the shutline between the bumper and the rear wing / fender, it's all one continual, elegant sweep. Very clever, I reckon:

It echoes the front shutline I was talking about earlier, it's all part of what is a very resolved and, well, intellectually consistent design.

Now onto the same area on the 987. There's a slither of bumper that extends up to meet the wing / fender, in between the cluster and the hood / bootlid. The little shut lines it creates are a bit lost - they create unnecessary visual clutter. I would describe it as bad design:

wanna986 · 07-08-2010, 07:02 PM

you have a good eye.

blue2000s · 07-09-2010, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pothole

Not to labour the point, but I spotted another interesting (well, to me!) difference that kind of speaks to my point, this time at the rear.

On the 986, look how the side shutline on the trunk / bootlid feeds seamlessly down into the rear light cluster and then curves elegantly around the bottom of the cluster and eventually into the shutline between the bumper and the rear wing / fender, it's all one continual, elegant sweep. Very clever, I reckon:

It echoes the front shutline I was talking about earlier, it's all part of what is a very resolved and, well, intellectually consistent design.

Now onto the same area on the 987. There's a slither of bumper that extends up to meet the wing / fender, in between the cluster and the hood / bootlid. The little shut lines it creates are a bit lost - they create unnecessary visual clutter. I would describe it as bad design:

At least they're consistent

pierre shags · 07-11-2010, 06:57 PM

"Aesthetic preferences are personal, of course" I said. Then used such non-objective language as: squatty, ugly, beautiful, & clean.

Design talk is mostly other words meaning "I like."

Pothole's vocabulary is of the same kind: smoothly and neatly, awkward looking slither ( I love "slither" sounds so menacing), lither and prettier (maybe what was needed was a lither slither), clever, unsubtle, Stunning, seamlessly, resolved, deft, elegantly, intellectually consistent (Wow. Really?), a bit lost and - right down to it - bad design.

Overdrive wrote of "compromises designers have to make" affecting design.
I admit the shutlines at the back of the 986 meet more cleanly. Although the trunk lid is the same dimension lengthwise on both cars, the width on the 987 is 1.75" (43mm) wider at outside/back of the lid. The better to get luggage in, I suppose.

The 986 spoiler is narrow and has unseemly proportions. But one man's golden ratio is another man's static design.

Quickurt · 07-12-2010, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierre shags

"I must say there is not a single point of the 986 I preferred...986 headlights looking "more Porsche" I have to roll on the floor laughing." says Kurt the Quick, and for once we agree.

Damn!!

Pick me off the floor and get out those smelling salts!!

Back in the day of early exotics and only sealed beam round headlights, all exotic, or "aero" designs had faired in covers over the sealed beams like the 987. 356's were somewhat of a trend setter in this design concept and hence the 987 lights are very close to truly "Classic Porsche."
The first gen 911 ('66 thru '73) had the trim ring of the clear fairings but, for a while, the cover lenses were illegal in US.

Quickurt · 07-12-2010, 01:46 PM

Pothole,

Clint Eastwood fan, I reckon?

Quickurt · 07-12-2010, 01:53 PM

To be honest, I think the different cut in lines on the 987 will give Porsche the ability to do several updated versions of the same body, far more cost effectively.
While some of those lines are cleaner on the 986, they limit slight modifications to make minor distinctions from year to year. I personally love the 987-2 front end for 2010, and it is a straight bolt on replacement for my 2006.
A bit of a close look and you will see minor shape differences everywhere on the new bumper cover, enough that we had to look very carefully and then check the parts department to make sure it is the same headlights for 2010.
This would have been very hard to pull off on the 986.

pothole · 07-12-2010, 02:12 PM

I'm not convinced the 987 design is physically more amenable to tweaks and facelifts. For proof of how flexible the 986 design is, just look at the 996 Turbo front end, which is effectively a variation on the 986 design but very different to look at.

Moreover, even if it is true, it wouldn't make the 987 a better design to look at. OK, it might be desirable in commercial terms in the sense of allowing Porsche to easily update the design and offer what looks like a "new" model.

But the best designs almost always last longer without the need for frequent facelifts. Indeed, when a car gets an early facelift, that's usually in response to a poorly received / failed design.

jacabean · 07-12-2010, 03:13 PM

this is the best looking porsche ever

Pat · 07-12-2010, 03:25 PM

^^^correct answer^^^

Boxtaboy · 07-12-2010, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacabean

this is the best looking porsche ever

Sorry, but that looks like a Franken-Porsche to me...part Cayman, trying to look like a 911, trying to look like a Carrera GT, but not one of any of em.