987 owners...no offence

[Mauiboxster]

Originally Posted by rick3000

A Boxster isn't going to sell at a car auction for millions of dollars. But just like the 914, people like them and will want to buy them in future. A nice 914 will sell for about $10+k today, they cost about $2500 new.

Exactly. I think Boxsters that were sold new for 40-50k will fetch 100k in 20-30 years for the "good" ones.

[Lil bastard]

Admittedly, trying to pick future collectables is like trying to read Tea Leaves.

But, there are several good indicators such as Brand, Convertibles, 1st Gen (Think Pontiac Tempest/GTO, '64,'65 Mustangs, early vs. late BMW 2002's, etc.). Low production - Lotus Elans now in the mid-$20's and Elites in the $75-$90k range. And then there is the unknown factor - who would ever have thought that VW Beetles would go in the $30-$40k range, or that Ramblers would ever see the far side of $20k?

But, there are also two distinct types of collectibles; Investment potential (which are few) and collectible drivers for the masses (think Mustangs, MGB's, Triumphs, assorted muscle, original Mini's, etc.).

In most cars with potential, there comes a point where the depreciation bottoms out, and after a few years, the good original examples and those which are restored tend to start to climb in value.

Investment? Well not in the true sense because even if you sell for more than you paid, what would have been the return if that money were placed in other intsruments for the same period of time? Again, a bit of Tea Leaf reading here too.

But, imagine all the things you own and use and being able to sell them later for more than you paid? You'd have essentially gotten their use for free.

The early Boxsters have to be at or near the bottom of their depreciation curve - the right time to buy. Then, imagine that VW/Audi/Porsche decides to kill production in 2016 as has been mentioned - even in Panorama, not at all an unreal scenario given the 914, 924, 944 and 928. Now Boxsters are available only in limited numbers. Now suppose something like a popular movie incorporates one or it appears in some other aspect of future Popular Culture. This would also fuel demand and raise prices.

I'm not saying to liquidate your retirement savings and fill a warehouse with 1st Gen Boxsters now that they are on the cheap. But, one of the guys interested in my Boxster describes his use as a sunny sunday driver w/ less than 2k mi./yr. Given it's curent shape and low miles, if that guy maintains it and decides to sell it in 10 yrs. or so, I'm certain he'll make out pretty well. I too have considered simply retiring it, properly mothballing it and waiting 10 yrs. or so. But, my main issue is one of space which I am now out of. Were I to pay to store it, any future appreciation would be gobbled up by the storage charges. But for the right buyer, it's a pretty safe bet they'll get their money back in future years and have a nice Sunday droptop to play with in the meantime.

Cheers!

[fatmike]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

Admittedly, trying to pick future collectables is like trying to read Tea Leaves.

But, there are several good indicators such as Brand, Convertibles, 1st Gen (Think Pontiac Tempest/GTO, '64,'65 Mustangs, early vs. late BMW 2002's, etc.). Low production - Lotus Elans now in the mid-$20's and Elites in the $75-$90k range. And then there is the unknown factor - who would ever have thought that VW Beetles would go in the $30-$40k range, or that Ramblers would ever see the far side of $20k?

But, there are also two distinct types of collectibles; Investment potential (which are few) and collectible drivers for the masses (think Mustangs, MGB's, Triumphs, assorted muscle, original Mini's, etc.).

In most cars with potential, there comes a point where the depreciation bottoms out, and after a few years, the good original examples and those which are restored tend to start to climb in value.

Investment? Well not in the true sense because even if you sell for more than you paid, what would have been the return if that money were placed in other intsruments for the same period of time? Again, a bit of Tea Leaf reading here too.

But, imagine all the things you own and use and being able to sell them later for more than you paid? You'd have essentially gotten their use for free.

The early Boxsters have to be at or near the bottom of their depreciation curve - the right time to buy. Then, imagine that VW/Audi/Porsche decides to kill production in 2016 as has been mentioned - even in Panorama, not at all an unreal scenario given the 914, 924, 944 and 928. Now Boxsters are available only in limited numbers. Now suppose something like a popular movie incorporates one or it appears in some other aspect of future Popular Culture. This would also fuel demand and raise prices.

I'm not saying to liquidate your retirement savings and fill a warehouse with 1st Gen Boxsters now that they are on the cheap. But, one of the guys interested in my Boxster describes his use as a sunny sunday driver w/ less than 2k mi./yr. Given it's curent shape and low miles, if that guy maintains it and decides to sell it in 10 yrs. or so, I'm certain he'll make out pretty well. I too have considered simply retiring it, properly mothballing it and waiting 10 yrs. or so. But, my main issue is one of space which I am now out of. Were I to pay to store it, any future appreciation would be gobbled up by the storage charges. But for the right buyer, it's a pretty safe bet they'll get their money back in future years and have a nice Sunday droptop to play with in the meantime.

Cheers!

Agree on this. How's your other "collectible" car working out so far? Happy to see your still posting here.

[jmatta]

Yes, those headlamps are terrible

[Burg Boxster]

Originally Posted by Mauiboxster

Exactly. I think Boxsters that were sold new for 40-50k will fetch 100k in 20-30 years for the "good" ones.

LOL - Let me know how that works out for ya.

Until then I'll take either Boxster to drive and enjoy as often as I can and not worry about what it might sell for, for someone else a long time from now.

Or, who knows, maybe some decade from now I'll buy your "good" one to help me re-live memories I'm creating today. Please keep up w/ the maintenance for me will ya?

[davemon]

I think, and certainly hope, that we're now seeing the floor for strong running and mechanically sound 986 Boxsters. They are out of production and replaced by a superior successor, the 987 (at least on paper). The fleet is aging, but not so aged that these are starting to become scarce, so I really think this is the absolute floor for these cars. Any car produced that has a Porsche badge on it will be considering collectible or at least "a nice car" as long as combustion engines are still on the road and not perceived as antiquated junk (think how many horse buggy shows are there?). Anyone picking up a nice, clean, mechanically sound 986 for 10k-14k or less only takes on the risk that they will have to replace the motor. With a brand new motor, you should be able to get most of that money back either with increased car lifespan or by reselling. The prices on the 986s can't go down any more because there is just simply too much fun to be had and too much in the box to watch the price go down any more. Collectible? Probably not in the sense of the other big names, but if you catch one in the sweet spot of the depreciation curve, you have very decent odds of breaking even in the short-term and possibly coming out ahead in the long term. Which is so much more than you can say about 95% of the other cars on the road.

For me, I'll drive and fix it until I get bored. If/when that happens if it's not worth selling, I'll cover it and remember the good times.

[fatmike]

Originally Posted by Burg Boxster

LOL - Let me know how that works out for ya.

Until then I'll take either Boxster to drive and enjoy as often as I can and not worry about what it might sell for, for someone else a long time from now.

Or, who knows, maybe some decade from now I'll buy your "good" one to help me re-live memories I'm creating today. Please keep up w/ the maintenance for me will ya?

It will work out very well. Keep in mind that 40 years ago houses cost $10K. We are living in an age of inflation -- take off the blinders.

There is a nice Karman Ghia (ugly orange) near my house. I see it a lot sitting in a garage all the time hooked up to a battery charger. What do you think that car would sell for these days??? $10K? What do you think it cost new? Maybe $2K?

There is no question that the 986 will be collectible 30 years down the road. No question at all. It has everything that the Karman Ghia has and more. Don't forget 30 years from now, there will be far fewer 986s available. By then most (like mine) will be long gone...

[Pat]

Mike, you failed to take into account time, and have assumed collector car markets today will act the same as they did 30 years ago. There are many variables you have not taken into account that could make them more collectible or less collectible. One cannot always predict the future simply by looking at the past.

[fatmike]

Originally Posted by Pat

Mike, you failed to take into account time, and have assumed collector car markets today will act the same as they did 30 years ago. There are many variables you have not taken into account that could make them more collectible or less collectible. One cannot always predict the future simply by looking at the past.

I think the world may look very very different in 40 years. I wonder if gasoline will be readily available and inexpensive. If it's not -- say because we've moved onto other fuels -- would you choose to keep a 'retro' automobile? Maybe any gasoline car will be prohibitively expensive in time, effort and cost. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if they were "illegal" because of environmental issues (like lead paint).

If you were going to keep a "retro" car in a world like this -- what type of car would you want to keep? Maybe a mid-engine, convertible Porsche? That might be on my list to consider...

[Burg Boxster]

Originally Posted by fatmike

It will work out very well. Keep in mind that 40 years ago houses cost $10K. We are living in an age of inflation -- take off the blinders.

There is a nice Karman Ghia (ugly orange) near my house. I see it a lot sitting in a garage all the time hooked up to a battery charger. What do you think that car would sell for these days??? $10K? What do you think it cost new? Maybe $2K?

There is no question that the 986 will be collectible 30 years down the road. No question at all. It has everything that the Karman Ghia has and more. Don't forget 30 years from now, there will be far fewer 986s available. By then most (like mine) will be long gone...

LOL - My blinders are off Inflation is a completely different animal than what was implied as an increase in "value" all for having a "good" one, which one hopes will reach collectible status and be in demand.

Point was more directed at it being a less than stellar move to have spent $50k ten years ago hoping to turn it into ONLY $100k 20-30 years from now (even if you exclude the other sunk costs of storage, maintenance, insurance, etc. for 20-30 years).

Or to use your example...
Suppose you took your $2k back in the late 1950s and instead invested it. How excited would you be to have $10k from it today (again even excluding sunk costs for storage, maintenance, insurance, etc. for 50+ years). Ready to retire?

In all sincerity, there's one truth and that is 100% of cars are depreciating assets. A very very very very rare few after depreciating in value may end up being be "worth" something, some day, somewhere. However, there are way too many countless outside influences which will cause most everyone who wants to make this bet lose $ in the long haul as opposed to making it. This is especially true if hedging w/ just one model vehicle let alone one with high production #s.

As I said before, until then I'll take either Boxster to drive and enjoy as often as I can and not worry about what it might sell for, for someone else a long time from now.

[fatmike]

Originally Posted by Burg Boxster

LOL - My blinders are off Inflation is a completely different animal than what was implied as an increase in "value" all for having a "good" one, which one hopes will reach collectible status and be in demand.

Point was more directed at it being a less than stellar move to have spent $50k ten years ago hoping to turn it into ONLY $100k 20-30 years from now (even if you exclude the other sunk costs of storage, maintenance, insurance, etc. for 20-30 years).

Or to use your example...
Suppose you took your $2k back in the late 1950s and instead invested it. How excited would you be to have $10k from it today (again even excluding sunk costs for storage, maintenance, insurance, etc. for 50+ years). Ready to retire?

In all sincerity, there's one truth and that is 100% of cars are depreciating assets. A very very very very rare few after depreciating in value may end up being be "worth" something, some day, somewhere. However, there are way too many countless outside influences which will cause most everyone who wants to make this bet lose $ in the long haul as opposed to making it. This is especially true if hedging w/ just one model vehicle let alone one with high production #s.

As I said before, until then I'll take either Boxster to drive and enjoy as often as I can and not worry about what it might sell for, for someone else a long time from now.

We agree Burg. No worries.


Cars are always a depreciating asset (about the only thing worse is a boat!).
Boxster as an investment? Ummmm, no. I didn't mean to imply that. Just that it will take more dollars 40 years from now to buy a car (any car) because of constant inflation.