Kreon - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Viper5 · 02-24-2010, 10:58 PM

I was told my car needs Kreon??? Apparently there is a whining sound within the first few seconds of startup (like 20 seconds) and the people at the dealership said I need to refill the kreon. The sound isn't always present. Also, I am receiving cold/hot air when I need it so my a/c seems to be working fine. I didn't even know cars used that element. How the heck am I supposed to do this?

EDIT: I think I may have meant Freon.

Lil bastard · 02-24-2010, 11:19 PM

The refrigerant R-134a, often mistakenly referred to as Freon (which is the Brand name for Dupont R-12) also contains the lubricating oil (usually a PAG oil such as PAG 46) to lube the system's internals and compressor. If you have a refrigerant leak, from pinholes in the condenser or at the 'o' rings, you also lose the oil with it.

But, I'd be surprised if this is the culprit, though it may well be. Before making the diagnosis that it's the refrigerant oil, I'd want to rule out the bearings on the idler pulley, alternator and the compressor. Especially if you've not noticed any drop in efficiency of the AC, this is the more likely source(s) of your whine.

Cheers!

vath2001 · 02-25-2010, 02:35 AM

20 sec whining at start-up. Are you hearing the air pump for the emissions... maybe? Its rather noticeable in mine.

Quickurt · 02-25-2010, 05:40 AM

Actually, I believe you have a Klingon caught in your serpentine belt!
Kreon is the only known element that will cause alien beings to release their deathlike grip on mechanical objects. It is the element Ripley sprayed on the alien in her escape pod to get it to come out and be blasted into space.

Viper5 · 02-25-2010, 02:08 PM

I think Quickurts theory seems the most plausible. Now where to get some Ripley...

I don't think it's the air pump since it only happens sometimes and it's definitely a whining sound. The people at the dealership heard it and the first thing they thought was the Freon.

Quote:

But, I'd be surprised if this is the culprit, though it may well be. Before making the diagnosis that it's the refrigerant oil, I'd want to rule out the bearings on the idler pulley, alternator and the compressor. Especially if you've not noticed any drop in efficiency of the AC, this is the more likely source(s) of your whine.

Even if it's only for a few seconds on startup? I thought if the bearings were worn, then that sound would eminate throughout the drive.

jmatta · 02-25-2010, 03:38 PM

Just your DVD drive starting up...

Quickurt · 02-25-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viper5

Even if it's only for a few seconds on startup? I thought if the bearings were worn, then that sound would eminate throughout the drive.

But that goes double for ANY component lacking lubrication. It is not going to get better, the longer it runs. If it is low on oil in the AC system, I don't see it quieting down after 20 seconds. That sounds more to me like something getting pressure engine oil, but even then 20 seconds is a long time for oil to "reach" it.
They have so many different types of pre-lubed, sealed bearings in different components, it's hard to say.

demick · 02-26-2010, 06:30 AM

Lack of Freon sounds very far fetched to me. But there should be an easy test to rule this out.

Turn off your A/C. If you set the climate control to Automatic, the Boxster will run the A/C 100% of the time when the temperature is above freezing. So you'll need to manually turn it off (press the snowflake button on the climate control). With the A/C off, it shouldn't make any difference if the system has Freon or not. Yes, the serpentine belt will still turn the A/C compressor pulley, but I believe there is a clutch mechanism that disengages the pulley from the compressor, so it will just be freewheeling the pulley. If the Freon is really the problem, then it should go away without the A/C on.

Quickurt · 02-26-2010, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demick

Lack of Freon sounds very far fetched to me. But there should be an easy test to rule this out.

Turn off your A/C. If you set the climate control to Automatic, the Boxster will run the A/C 100% of the time when the temperature is above freezing. So you'll need to manually turn it off (press the snowflake button on the climate control). With the A/C off, it shouldn't make any difference if the system has Freon or not. Yes, the serpentine belt will still turn the A/C compressor pulley, but I believe there is a clutch mechanism that disengages the pulley from the compressor, so it will just be freewheeling the pulley. If the Freon is really the problem, then it should go away without the A/C on.

I hate logical people........

gsrhoden · 02-26-2010, 09:50 AM

One possibility is that the noise is coming from the alternator. When an alternator loads up heavily, they sometimes will make the noise you describe. Since startup uses a great deal of energy and if your battery is a little weak or old, the alternator will charge heavily for a short period to make up for the juice used.

eightsandaces · 02-26-2010, 10:08 AM

Lil B,

Is there anything wrong with using one of those generic refills from the auto store that come with the cheese meter & tube if all you need is a charge?

Lil bastard · 02-26-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eightsandaces

Lil B,

Is there anything wrong with using one of those generic refills from the auto store that come with the cheese meter & tube if all you need is a charge?

There is nothing wrong with those DIY kits from the auto store, assuming that you need it.

If you add too much refrigerant, many bad things can happen.

First, more gas does not equal more cooling, in fact too much gas will degrade the efficiency of the system.

Second, adding too much gas will raise the pressure of the system possibly compromising the 'o' rings and causing leaks where none existed before.

Finally, there are two types of oil used, and they are not compatible. These are PAG and Esther based oils. Manufacturers use PAG based oils because they are most efficient. Commercial operations and replacement kits tend to favor the Esther based oils which are less expensive, and less efficient.

The important thing is that adding more refrigerant (and the oil included with it is not a good thing. You can roughly determine the need to add more refrigerant by running the car, turning on the AC, and looking at the sight glass on top of the Receiver/Dryer (located under the service covers inside the hood next to the battery). If you do not see any 'bubbles' the system is fully charged and does not need any additional refrigerant.

Cheers!