Dispeling M96 engine rumors

[JAAY]

We are fortunate to have a real Porsche engine builder/designer on this forum. The man has the best reputation and needs not to back up anything he says. Yes he wants to make a living on his service and products. Why is that so terrible? He has never pushed a product stating that we need it or else. IMS is a chance just like a hole in a piston or a bearing going.

[QUOTE=JAAY]We are fortunate to have a real Porsche engine builder/designer on this forum. The man has the best reputation and needs not to back up anything he says. QUOTE]

Could not have been said better. There are two, maybe three people on this board who really, really know their stuff. Jake is #1 - I'm very grateful whenever someone posts a question and he answers it.

[jpn]

I will be getting a 2000 boxster soon....hi milage around 90K. Car runs good, no funny noises and leaks I noticed...Do you suggest refitting a new IMS just for preventive purposes....the engine hasnt been opened up ever since new.....

I have no plans of tracking it...just gonna enjoy the car for drives in twisty mountain road...

[rick3000]

If it's a 2000 you don't really need to worry, IMS only affects post-01 cars. I don't even think Raby's retrofit will work on a pre-01 car since the redesigned IMS is what caused a the problem.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by rick3000

If it's a 2000 you don't really need to worry, IMS only affects post-01 cars. I don't even think Raby's retrofit will work on a pre-01 car since the redesigned IMS is what caused a the problem.

Absolutely incorrect.

The IMS syndrome is clearly an issue with ALL models and years of the M96, including pre-01 models.

The IMSR procedure and bearing is applicable to all M96 engines from 1997-2005.

[rick3000]

It may be applicable to all years, but is it worth it for all years? I don't think it's that clear.
What percentage of 1998-2000 Boxsters experience IMS failure, and what percentage of 2001-2005 Boxsters experience IMS failure?
No one has the these statistics and without them it is impossible to say if your IMS retrofit is a good investment for all model years. But like the OP said the original IMS was fairly reliable and more so than later IMS bearings, where you retrofit is probably not a bad idea.

[landrovered]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Absolutely incorrect.

The IMS syndrome is clearly an issue with ALL models and years of the M96, including pre-01 models.

The IMSR procedure and bearing is applicable to all M96 engines from 1997-2005.

I called F6I and asked a similar question and I was told that my 97k mile boxster motor was at the end of its service life and that it was not a good value for my money. I appreciated this realistic assessment of my options and took the advice.

Let's be realistic about what is cost effective in preventative maintenance and what is not.

[mikefocke]

to do the IMS when you are going to be doing a clutch so as to reduce the expense of the "prevention" by using the clutch replacement engine removal of transmission to gain access.

So assuming you aren't going to just abandon the car when the clutch starts to slip...there are older cars where IMS replacement makes sense.

Would I do it on a '97 with 100k+ miles on it if I didn't need a clutch? No. I wouldn't. But I accept risk well. Others may not. (I also change my '01S's oil 3x more frequently and never drive when it doesn't totally warm up)

Plus there are some who value their cars for emotional reasons beyond strictly rational economics and for them it makes sense to pay $3k to prevent on a $8k car...or even $20k for a new engine for the car.

Not everyone has the same values...now isn't that the understatement of this century.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by landrovered

I called F6I and asked a similar question and I was told that my 97k mile boxster motor was at the end of its service life and that it was not a good value for my money. I appreciated this realistic assessment of my options and took the advice.

Let's be realistic about what is cost effective in preventative maintenance and what is not.

No one knows percentages, but I have the failure logs and field the majority of the most colorful phone calls. I hear from people who have had failures from the IMS bearing from all years and models. In another year or so we should have enough trend data from the failure log to make our own forecasts, but I'll never release them.

Everyone looks for a number, a percentage but they don't realize that a hell of a lot of this failure is related to nothing more than luck as with anything thats mechanical.

We do not apply the IMSR in our facility for cars that have over 85K miles. We hope to avoid instances where an engine fails due to high mileage (from one of the 20 modes of failure) and the IMSR gets the finger pointed at it un-fairly. We are doing EVERYTHING possible to avoid situations that can negatively impact the procedure and the bearing's reputation- even if that means some lost sales. When an engine fails people become fairly selfish looking to find anyone possible to absorb the costs associated and I don't make a very good pin cushion.

Other shops are applying the bearing that we have provided in cars of any mileage, but we are not doing that here in my facility.

[Dragonwind]

Originally Posted by jpn

I will be getting a 2000 boxster soon....hi milage around 90K. Car runs good, no funny noises and leaks I noticed...Do you suggest refitting a new IMS just for preventive purposes....the engine hasnt been opened up ever since new.....

I have no plans of tracking it...just gonna enjoy the car for drives in twisty mountain road...

You'll love it! I would get it done along with the clutch (and get the new RMS too). Everything that can be done while the transmission is off saves $ down the road and having the IMS peace of mind is worth it IMO. Mine's a 99 that just passed 90k and I try to drive it as much as possible. Nothing like a warm day with the top down on a twisty road in a Boxster!

Chris

[rick3000]

Originally Posted by Dragonwind

You'll love it! I would get it done along with the clutch (and get the new RMS too). Everything that can be done while the transmission is off saves $ down the road and having the IMS peace of mind is worth it IMO. Mine's a 99 that just passed 90k and I try to drive it as much as possible. Nothing like a warm day with the top down on a twisty road in a Boxster!

Chris

Like I said IMS rarely, if ever affects pre-01 Boxsters. But I agree, enjoy the car!

[Jake Raby]

Its not so much a matter of someone being turned down, because we have applied the IMSR to engines with over 85K. When that occurred there was some paperwork and understanding required all up front.

Some people that do not understand the engine or the IMS failure believe that when the bearing is retrofitted the engine is reincarnated and thats just not true... The IMSR addresses one mode of failure, one of the only ones that can be addressed with the engine together and in the car.

I should have made it more clear that we will still apply the IMSR to higher mileage engines, but conditions do apply. I did not make that very clear at all after I re-read my post after these responses.

[JMF]

I bought an '03 last year knowing all that was being reported about IMS failures. I did my research, learned about Jake's work, and decided that as soon as the CPO warranty is over next year I'll have him do the IMS upgrade. The clutch probably needs replacing anyway.

I'm not worried or scared that my car is going to blow up. I try to drive it like it was designed to be driven. I want to keep this beauty for a long time, and if a few grand buys some time and peace of mind, why not? The grins I get from driving this car are worth it.

I have never gotten the impression that Jake is any kind of snake oil salesman, and I'm surprised that he responds to the critics at all. But it makes for great reading ...

[Dragonwind]

Thanks for the clarification Jake. I do understand mechanics and never expect that this is a new life, but rather stopping something from killing would could be an engine that might run for a long time. I don't use the M word for oil and I've had a lot of other work done to it, including new radiators, RMS, water pump, thermostat, power steering pump and hoses, coil packs, plus regular maintenance items. I hope that between all that I can get a long life out of her.

Chris

[jcb986]

You either love the Boxster or hate it. I feel like that song when I'm breezing down the highway..."don't worry, be happy."