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Old 10-06-2009, 06:13 AM   #1
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Storage: The Physics of Foam Under Tires?

My Box goes into storage next week (soft weeping in background).

While I've stored cars before, I've noticed what seems to be an increasing a number of folks are rolling their parked cars onto dense foam. I didn't do particularly well in physics, so I'm struggling see how this helps modern tires in a material way, espc. if the tires are inflated to 50+psi.

If this really helps, I'm all for it. Anyone experienced "foamers" out there with insight?

Thanks.


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Old 10-06-2009, 07:47 AM   #2
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I've never used foam but have used carpet as a tire pad over the last few years and have had no problems with flat spotting.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d18mike
My Box goes into storage next week (soft weeping in background).

While I've stored cars before, I've noticed what seems to be an increasing a number of folks are rolling their parked cars onto dense foam. I didn't do particularly well in physics, so I'm struggling see how this helps modern tires in a material way, espc. if the tires are inflated to 50+psi.

If this really helps, I'm all for it. Anyone experienced "foamers" out there with insight?

Thanks.
Totally unnecessary, tires are going to develop slight flat spotting, regardless of what they are sitting on, concrete, foam, carpet, or severely over priced curved dollies. Most tires run out flat spots in about 5 min. of driving. Don’t waste your time or money on this old wife’s tale……………
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:23 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by JFP in PA
Totally unnecessary, tires are going to develop slight flat spotting, regardless of what they are sitting on, concrete, foam, carpet, or severely over priced curved dollies. Most tires run out flat spots in about 5 min. of driving. Don’t waste your time or money on this old wife’s tale……………
+1 on this.
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:56 AM   #5
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Don't think it's a wives tale at all, fact is it's why Michelin claims to use the sport rib design. I do think foam is a waste of time, getting the car on stands for winter was even recommended in my 944 service bulletins, that's what I do every year.
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Old 10-06-2009, 02:15 PM   #6
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Don't think it's a wives tale at all, fact is it's why Michelin claims to use the sport rib design. I do think foam is a waste of time, getting the car on stands for winter was even recommended in my 944 service bulletins, that's what I do every year.
In over thirty five years of storing multiple Porsche’s, fitted with everything from Bridgestone’s, Pirellis to Goodyear’s and Michelins; none of them ever had a problem sitting on the concrete floor of the shop for the winter. No foam, no levitation devices, nothing. And no prolonged flat spotting issues either. If your tire manufacture is telling you to park the car on foam to protect the tires, I’d suggest you need new tires from another manufacturer………………
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:57 PM   #7
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In over thirty five years of storing multiple Porsche’s, fitted with everything from Bridgestone’s, Pirellis to Goodyear’s and Michelins; none of them ever had a problem sitting on the concrete floor of the shop for the winter. No foam, no levitation devices, nothing. And no prolonged flat spotting issues either. If your tire manufacture is telling you to park the car on foam to protect the tires, I’d suggest you need new tires from another manufacturer………………

It's pretty clear in my post I don't believe in the foam, guess you missed that. My friend works for Hyundai corporate and reports that cars sitting too long have had flat spot problems. To each his own, I have four mini jacks, to un-weight the tires is NBD.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:03 PM   #8
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hmmm I think I invented the dense foam thing or came up with it on my own anyway

I am talking so dense that it takes the weight of the car. I found that the foam deformation over the winter takes the shape of the tire (pumped to 50). You are left with cambered indents in the foam. This preferable to the tire deforming against concrete and sitting there in my view; think about it.

I have PS2s and dont want the risk of flat spotting them or causing belt problems, especially with camber. Is it possible to get away without foam: of course. Will flat spots be ironed out after a while: quite possibly. Why take the risk? Foam is cheap?

Another option would be to set the car wheel/tires that you dont care about. I am not so sure letting the wheels hang off of the springs via jacks is a good idea. It may change your spring set/rate by stretching them
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Old 10-07-2009, 04:57 AM   #9
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hmmm I think I invented the dense foam thing or came up with it on my own anyway

I am talking so dense that it takes the weight of the car. I found that the foam deformation over the winter takes the shape of the tire (pumped to 50). You are left with cambered indents in the foam. This preferable to the tire deforming against concrete and sitting there in my view; think about it.

I have PS2s and dont want the risk of flat spotting them or causing belt problems, especially with camber. Is it possible to get away without foam: of course. Will flat spots be ironed out after a while: quite possibly. Why take the risk? Foam is cheap?

Another option would be to set the car wheel/tires that you dont care about. I am not so sure letting the wheels hang off of the springs via jacks is a good idea. It may change your spring set/rate by stretching them

Hence the four cheap jack system where one can un-weight the tires without putting the car high in the air, you can have the tire still touching if you wish, as I said everyone has their own take on this issue and that's OK too. Four scissor jacks from wrecks are perfect for this.
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:16 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by eightsandaces
It's pretty clear in my post I don't believe in the foam, guess you missed that. My friend works for Hyundai corporate and reports that cars sitting too long have had flat spot problems. To each his own, I have four mini jacks, to un-weight the tires is NBD.
And your use of four jacks is exactly what a Porsche TSB describes as “improper storage conditions” where the suspension is “hanging” leading to “premature component failures”, along with denied warranty claims for the same……….. Let it sit on the floor, nothing bad is going to happen………….
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:22 AM   #11
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hmmm I think I invented the dense foam thing or came up with it on my own anyway

I am talking so dense that it takes the weight of the car. I found that the foam deformation over the winter takes the shape of the tire (pumped to 50). You are left with cambered indents in the foam. This preferable to the tire deforming against concrete and sitting there in my view; think about it.

I have PS2s and dont want the risk of flat spotting them or causing belt problems, especially with camber. Is it possible to get away without foam: of course. Will flat spots be ironed out after a while: quite possibly. Why take the risk? Foam is cheap?

Another option would be to set the car wheel/tires that you dont care about. I am not so sure letting the wheels hang off of the springs via jacks is a good idea. It may change your spring set/rate by stretching them

I’d bet perfectly good Yankee cash that the tires are still flat spotted after sitting on the foam for months. The foam doesn’t do anything bad, the issue is it just doesn’t do anything positive either………….
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:04 AM   #12
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And your use of four jacks is exactly what a Porsche TSB describes as “improper storage conditions” where the suspension is “hanging” leading to “premature component failures”, along with denied warranty claims for the same……….. Let it sit on the floor, nothing bad is going to happen………….

How is the suspension hanging when the tire is still skimming the floor? That small travel of unweighted spring and shock? Clearly we don't agree, that's fine, we don't need to e battle about it. The fiat is 38 years old and has not suffered under the same conditions.
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:48 AM   #13
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How is the suspension hanging when the tire is still skimming the floor? That small travel of unweighted spring and shock? Clearly we don't agree, that's fine, we don't need to e battle about it. The fiat is 38 years old and has not suffered under the same conditions.
Perhaps it doesn’t bother the Fiat, but it will bother the Porsche. With the suspension extended, two negative things occur: First, the shafts on the struts are extended, allowing them to corrode (they are not stainless, and do corrode if left extended) and collect dirt (aswill oiling them to prevent corrosion). When put back in service, the dirt and corrosion causes seal failures and requires the struts to be replaced (read $). Second, the suspension components, particularly the struts, were not designed to have the weight of the tires, brakes, wheels, etc. hanging from them for prolonged periods.

For some totally irrational reason, the “old wife’s tale” that tires will permanently flat spot if the you do not take the weight off them continues to persist, even though literally thousands of cars sit on hard surfaces without moving for months every year with absolutely no ill effects; resulting in the naïve spending their time an money on totally useless “fixes” for a non existent problem. If there ever was a fertile ground for marketers to create unnecessary products/fixes, this is definitely one of them.

Do whatever you want, but you are wasting your time……….
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by JFP in PA
For some totally irrational reason, the “old wife’s tale” that tires will permanently flat spot if the you do not take the weight off them continues to persist, even though literally thousands of cars sit on hard surfaces without moving for months every year with absolutely no ill effects; resulting in the naïve spending their time an money on totally useless “fixes” for a non existent problem. If there ever was a fertile ground for marketers to create unnecessary products/fixes, this is definitely one of them.

Do whatever you want, but you are wasting your time……….
Ditto...

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Old 10-07-2009, 01:13 PM   #15
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Boys,

Far be it from me not to learn something new, also, it's easier just to park it. I do need to ask why Hyundai would be changing some tires on new vehicles which if memory serves sat at the port a long time, based on what you guys are saying that should never happen.

Let's move on, should the car be parked over a tarp if it's otherwise concrete below?
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:48 PM   #16
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Let's move on, should the car be parked over a tarp if it's otherwise concrete below?
Absolutely, a vapor barrier will prevent any corrosion from occuring and in fact will - over time - strengthen any metals placed above it. Oh, wait...sorry, thought this was another joke thread...
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:57 PM   #17
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wow quite a bit of discussion over a little foam!

again the foam deforms the tires not so much...on concrete the tires deform and and stay that way unless you roll the car...very simple. it looks to me that it does help aliviate flattening....to each his own...sleep on the floor tonite

i use a tarp and fold it up over the wheels; exhaust etc.

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