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Old 10-03-2009, 01:07 PM   #1
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IMS question in November Excellence

I was just reading the November issue of Excellence and there was a tech question asking if there were any preventative measures available for the M96 IMS bearing issue. Their response mentioned both Charles/LN Engineering and Jake/Flat 6 Innovations.
Hope you guys get more work and keep up the great R&D.
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Old 10-03-2009, 07:21 PM   #2
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Old 10-04-2009, 07:33 AM   #3
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Seriously, if I were Porsche, I would fly you to Germany to meet with my engineers. I know that would wound their little German pride but whatever works.

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Old 10-04-2009, 08:22 PM   #4
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I went to the German Autofest / Porsche Show this morning in Ventura. Charles Navarro was there and I had the privilege and pleasure of talking to him for a long time, as well as introducing him to my dealer's lead technician. The LN Engineering parts are really well made. During the discussion, Charles and the mechanic agreed that more frequent oil changes are probably one of the best preventative measures for prolonging time until IMS and other failures on the M96 engines. Also, cars that are driven often and hard seem to have a lot fewer failures than garage queens. Neither was particularly impressed with the quality of many of the engine parts

I'm planning to look seriously at the retrofit LN Engineering IMS bearing when my clutch needs to be replaced. Until then, I'm just planning to drive, maintain and enjoy my car.

If anyone is local to any upcoming Porsche show and LN Engineering is an exhibitor, I heartily recommend attending just to talk to Charles and get smarter on what can be done to improve the lifespan of these engines.
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:36 AM   #5
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I've been considering doing some of these preventative measures as well. (My Box has 48K miles.) My question relates to timing. It seems like a lot of these failures (especially IMS) tend to occur well before one would usually need to do a clutch.

I know this varies greatly depending on how the car is driven, but how long to clutches tend to last in these cars? Are people doing the IMS retrofit just replacing their clutch because it's convenient to do so at the same time, regardless of whether the clutch really needs replacing?
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:16 AM   #6
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"how long to clutches tend to last in these cars"

I was the thrid owner of my Boxster. I bought it 3 years ago with about 43K miles. The clutch was sorta toast when I got it, so I put a new one in a few thousand miles after I got it. That clutch seems to be working fine now at 90K and I drive the car the way it was made to be driven.

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Old 10-05-2009, 07:35 AM   #7
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Clutches are hit and miss on these cars.

My 99' had one replaced at 20k because of a smelly odor coming from the clutch non-stop. The slip from the dealership said it had a blue fungus developing on it.

My 01' S had to have it replaced at 50k.

I've seen some folks put over 100k+ though. My Dad's old 90' Jetta had 240k on the original clutch.....I dream of that on a Boxster.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:13 AM   #8
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what does a faulty clutch on this car feel/sound like? The usuall rattle/chatter?
I've got 65K on mine works well.
Although my engine seems to be making a louder rattle when its shut down after parking. I'm thinking of doing this retrofit and pushing the shocks out later.
Kind of pricey to do both right now.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectlap
what does a faulty clutch on this car feel/sound like? The usuall rattle/chatter?
I've got 65K on mine works well.
Although my engine seems to be making a louder rattle when its shut down after parking. I'm thinking of doing this retrofit and pushing the shocks out later.
Kind of pricey to do both right now.
The clutch will get super heavy or light. Normal slipping etc.

Dude tell me about it,the overpriced crap from Porsche is starting to annoy me now that I'm looking at other cars. I was looking to switch to a 01' z06 recently and called shops for quotes.....new 09' z06 shocks(fit on c5 vettes)....$400($236 parts)....installed.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:41 PM   #10
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Every M96 powered car I see with more than 40K miles is in need of a clutch.. Thats why I include the cost of a new clutch package in every IMS retrofit package that we complete.
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Raby
Every M96 powered car I see with more than 40K miles is in need of a clutch.. Thats why I include the cost of a new clutch package in every IMS retrofit package that we complete.
Jake, how do you define "in need of a clutch"? If I experience no unusual noises, no burning odors, no noticeable slippage as I engage the clutch, can I still be "in need" of a replacement?

(With 48K miles, if/when I do the IMS retrofit, I'm sure I would go ahead with the clutch anyway. But I was just curious.)
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Raby
Every M96 powered car I see with more than 40K miles is in need of a clutch.. Thats why I include the cost of a new clutch package in every IMS retrofit package that we complete.
How often do you see an M96 that doesn't have a bad IMS bearing?
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Old 10-05-2009, 03:05 PM   #13
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We've seen plenty of cars make it to 70-80K on their original clutch. It seems to be somewhat hit or miss, and it also depends on how the car is driven. Now, if we're pulling the gearbox for an IMS update, it makes sense to do the clutch while things are apart.
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Old 10-05-2009, 03:54 PM   #14
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82K on my 2001, no signs of needing a water pump, AOS, RMS or clutch yet.....
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
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82K on my 2001, no signs of needing a water pump, AOS, RMS or clutch yet.....
By the time the clutch shows symptoms of needing replacement you'll also need a new flywheel..

At 40-50 K the clutch disc is worn very close to the rivets, but that is dependant upon the driver.

I believe in being proactive, if the tranny is pulled you replace every part that may see wear in the next life of the replaced clutch.. It only makes sense.

When I assemble a new engine it gets a new clutch, pressure plate and even a flywheel if its worn, so I can rebalance the entire assembly and keep it that way for as many miles as possible without parts needing replacement.

These days the only clutches we see are when doing IMS retrofits or when attempting to save engines that have already featured a failure..
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:09 PM   #16
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Most flywheels will flunk at least one of the tests that Porsche calls for by the time the clutch is worn.
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