Sumitomo HTR Z III

[eightsandaces]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

I've read nothing but positive things about the Sumitomo HTR Z III. Does anyone with experience with them have any negative experiences or comments?

Don't like them, IMO they flat spot too easily just sitting in the garage. although I have no experience with the III's. IMO, buying a performance car and being a cheap ass on tires makes no sense because the tires are a huge part of performance.

[E Kaplan]

Can't comment on the Sumitomo. Never drove on them. However, if you want a great tire that sticks and is good in the rain, get the NItto's.
Nitto NT555 Extreme ZR 225/40R18 $124 each, rear 265/35R18 $181 each
Great price for a great tire. I never heard of them, but when I purchased my Boxster the former owner had these put on. I liked them so much I put them on my Jaguar XJR and could not be happier.
Eric

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by eightsandaces

IMO, buying a performance car and being a cheap ass on tires makes no sense because the tires are a huge part of performance.

I actually agree with you to a point. That point is where I'm sitting. With tires, as with most things, there is a phenomenon known as diminishing returns. In general, the more you pay, the higher quality you get on an item. This can be considered a linear relationship up to a point. At this point, it becomes much more expensive, either in design effort, or in materials, or some other property, to eek out just a bit more quality.

It's very common in racing bicycles. You can get a crumby, heavy road bike for $500. It'll get you into biking to see if you really like it, but it's not going to last long and it makes hills much harder than they need to be. You can get a pretty decent, long lasting bike for $1600. It'll probably need some repairs every once in a while and the materials are pretty pedestrian. You can get a really nice, really light road bike for $3000. This bike will last tens of thousands of miles and allow you to be competitive at most levels. It's got sleek components and made from exotic materials. But for someone who's livelihood or ego depends on it, a person can spend $12,000 and get a little lighter (like 1/2 pound MAYBE), little faster, and probably just as reliable bike.

The HTR Z III performs well against more costly competitors in tests, doesn't always come out on top, but doesn't scrape the bottom either. It's got a good temperature rating, and it's treadwear is almost double some of the more costly competitors. It comes from a well established manufacturer handled by well known retailers. So clearly this tire isn't of poor quality or lacking in performance.

I don't drive at a track and if I autocross, it is not often and not competitive with anyone but myself. It's actually more rewarding for me to have driven the car in the mountains for a couple of seasons and seeing that the wear bars are still pretty far away than to have the fasted track time or to have pulled that extra 0.1g of lateral acceleration and see that another year has cost another grand in a quickly consumed purchase.

In addition, I don't necessarily agree with the notion that the stickier a street tire is, the better. I like a sports car that will be fun to drive at less than suicide speeds. Tires that give away a little earlier just mean that the fun arrives a speeds that are less likely to kill you. Vintage cars are more fun to drive than modern ones partially for this reason.

So what seems like simply "being a cheap ass" to someone without the insight, is a logical decision for someone else.

[944boy]

I agree with Blue on this. I have a $1600 bike that has lasted many miles and many years, has been wonderful in every aspect. It won't win me any serious bike race, but that's not what I bought it for.

I have a 944 that I race competitively. Everything makes a difference. I can spend more on solid bushings than the car is worth. But that's what it takes to make a car competitive in some classes.

For the Boxster, I put a huge amounts of miles on the car and needed less expensive tires that would last a few miles with good rain performance. I didn't need the best of the best nor did I want to pay for it. But I didn't want a crappy tire, I've had plenty of those too. (Old Nittos NT-450?, Falken Ziex 512) I have been very happy with these tires and other people on this board have been too. I can't comment on flat spotting, the car rarely sits for more than 24 hours.

Ultimately I am not buying the tires for you, that is your decision. Almost any tire you can buy in the size you need will be round and made of rubber and work perfectly fine. You should match the tire with what you expect from it.

[eightsandaces]

I'm not castigating the choices of others, clearly everyone here appreciates their vehicles. All I'm saying is after reading volumes on fairly expensive upgrades in this forum I would think a tire purchase would certainly include a measurement of quality & performance. I agree with blue that highest price isn't always the best metric and diminishing returns and paying for names is a reality. My dad had one small problem with his sport pilots and Michelin was all over it! Having worked in the fortune 100 battlefield, I appreciate true customer service and product quality, not just lip service.

[ChefCarnivore]

The performance issue reminds me of equipment ads for skis, golf clubs, fishing gear , and sail boats. Namely, what's the use of paying more for performance equipment if you are not going to need it?

For many years skis were advertised as "racer" models when in reality most skiiers are recreational skiers and do not have the ability to get the performance out of the product because they are not physically capable and do not race. The same is true for the other categories mentioned above and for tires.

[Quickurt]

I came here looking for paying less than PS2's because, as I drive the car, usually with wifey in board I don't NEED PS2s.
I think Silver Bullet made the most sense a good while ago, to paraphrase, "If you'r enot doing track days or driving like you are but mainly use your car to cruise, why would you buy track quality, rediculously expensive PS2s?"
I want a set that will be safe when I need it, but will mainly not cost a dime a mile to use for cruising. Someone above also made the comment on the speeds needed to have fun with really sticky, high tech tires.
We switched to a required, much harder compound, Hoosier slick for Club Ford racing. Want to guess how much more fun they were to go 2 seconds a lap slower?

[mptoledo]

I started a thread and was giving an update as I broke them in. http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21546

Got mine at local tire shop (tinity tires, urbana ohio) for $700 intstalled.


My take after about 700 miles is they were a great choice.

cons: Noisey, I do here/feel the road more than my Mich pilot sports. Nothing the stereo won't compensate for.
Handling is different from my Mich's, as they seem to over steer a little more.

Pros:Price, They handle very well, not a lot of rain testing but have been in a few showers, they seemed fine. Breaking was great, hard corners take a little extra effort as these are sticky tires.


conclusion: Great tires for people on a budget. I don't think they are as good as the more expensive tires, but they are close enough!! (for me at least). I don't track, I use them as a daily driver and back country, road rage!!

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by Quickurt

Someone above also made the comment on the speeds needed to have fun with really sticky, high tech tires.
We switched to a required, much harder compound, Hoosier slick for Club Ford racing. Want to guess how much more fun they were to go 2 seconds a lap slower?

I think I made my point pretty clear. If you care about lap times, lower cost tires probably aren't the right choice. If you like to feel a car's limits at a safe speed, lower adhesion brings out more personality.

[DamageINC123]

Originally Posted by Quickurt

I came here looking for paying less than PS2's because, as I drive the car, usually with wifey in board I don't NEED PS2s.
I think Silver Bullet made the most sense a good while ago, to paraphrase, "If you'r enot doing track days or driving like you are but mainly use your car to cruise, why would you buy track quality, rediculously expensive PS2s?"
I want a set that will be safe when I need it, but will mainly not cost a dime a mile to use for cruising. Someone above also made the comment on the speeds needed to have fun with really sticky, high tech tires.
We switched to a required, much harder compound, Hoosier slick for Club Ford racing. Want to guess how much more fun they were to go 2 seconds a lap slower?

I have always ran Michelins on all my vehicles. I have PS2 on my car now and recently noticed when searching the websit a price drop. At the end of last year I was seeing around $288 a piece for 265/40/17 and now they are around $213.00.

[mikefocke]

for the one time in a tires life you have to react in an emergency mode. For that one time, the characteristics of a tire may save your life...or may not. May save your car, or not.

I've had tires cost me a Boxster and a VW. In the one case I was driving on UHPS tires and the road was cold and I just slid on top of the pavement instead of the rubber digging in to the micro indents in the pavement..not even a Boxster's brakes could save the car. In the other, the dealer that sold me the car switched the tires on me from good tread when I bought the car to almost bald when I picked the car up in the dark. Slid going around a curve when the fronts just didn't bite at all.

Go look at the tirerack comparisons and see the stopping distance and imagine that you have to stop to prevent your car hitting something or someone. Think how much faster that hit will be if you have 2 car lengths difference in stopping distance ... which can happen between 2 tires.

Whatever you do, drive cautiously the first 200-300 miles. And read the tirerack discussion of wear versus stopping distance and don't run the tires to the wear bars if you drive in the wet. I've seen someone killed doing that. Hit a puddle at the beginning of a bridge and started playing pinball off the concrete bridge abutments. I sailed through the same puddle at the same speed just fine.

[blue2000s]

These guys have really impressive prices, bested tirerack by about $45 shipped.

http://www.onlinetires.com/

[smshirk]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

for the one time in a tires life you have to react in an emergency mode. For that one time, the characteristics of a tire may save your life...or may not. May save your car, or not.

I've had tires cost me a Boxster and a VW. In the one case I was driving on UHPS tires and the road was cold and I just slid on top of the pavement instead of the rubber digging in to the micro indents in the pavement..not even a Boxster's brakes could save the car. In the other, the dealer that sold me the car switched the tires on me from good tread when I bought the car to almost bald when I picked the car up in the dark. Slid going around a curve when the fronts just didn't bite at all.

Go look at the tirerack comparisons and see the stopping distance and imagine that you have to stop to prevent your car hitting something or someone. Think how much faster that hit will be if you have 2 car lengths difference in stopping distance ... which can happen between 2 tires.

Whatever you do, drive cautiously the first 200-300 miles. And read the tirerack discussion of wear versus stopping distance and don't run the tires to the wear bars if you drive in the wet. I've seen someone killed doing that. Hit a puddle at the beginning of a bridge and started playing pinball off the concrete bridge abutments. I sailed through the same puddle at the same speed just fine.

+1 I have experience with crummy tires in the rain. I lost it in a curve during a drizzling rain, went down an embankment and rolled over into a corn field. If I had had 2 or 3 more feet I would have stopped, but it went over in agonizing slow motion. Miraculously didn't get hurt, but totaled my 260Z. The tires were to the wear bars and I had been putting off new tires for a couple of months. A long time ago, but a lesson I've never forgotten! I always buy high end tires and replace them early. I have close to 10k on the Dunlop Star Specs on the Boxster now. They have plenty of tread left, but the rears are really noisy, so I'll put on new ones before I take a chance on getting wet.

[jcb986]

I put the Falken 912's on mine. Great grip wet or dry...awful in the snow from what I've read. So far, the are handling well. Not made for track, just pleasure driving with a little attitude.

[dallison]

i have about 5k on my htr II and they seem to do well. They do not like damp pavement at all.

[Nds crvs]

I don't know if they are HTR I's, II's, or III's Z's on the 02 I bought in August. Picked it up and drove throught 2 states in the rain with no problem. Weather cleared for Fri. rush hour in Chicago. Next day cruise through Wi., corner of Iowa, and MN good, with one problem that still re occurs. I live in North Dakota and the car has been a daily driver all but maybe 5 days because of blizzards. The traction is better with the HTR's than my pickup has in 2 wheel drive.

The secret is to drive for the conditions and not the cars maximum potential.

Oh, and the re occurring problem is other drivers pulling in front of me to show how fast they are and then the drivers slowing down because they don't have the ability to handle the limited number of curves we have in this state of flat straight roads, when the Boxster wants to start showing it's stuff.

[AndyA6]

When I got the car HTR 3 (17") were mounted. I was really concerned but have to admit that these tires are really good. Grip is good, handle crisp, comfortable and, they don't squeal as much as other tires when pushed. Can't comment on wet, though.

Keep in mind that there are very few "bad" tires out there, only advice, stay away from anything Chinese!

[tornado]

I have a 2000 Boxster.......my car(women driver) is my every day car in Dallas Tx...so my concerns are a tire that holds up to the heat and has traction in the rain. I do not race but have a heavy foot and tend to always drive over the speed limit. Texas some times has hard rains and this last year 104 temps and snow twice (which is unusual). The HTR Z III was recommended but would rather spend more if I am not going to be safe in the rain...but will also be sad if I spend a bunch of money for a tire that wears quickly. Had Toyos from Kaufman Tire who is no longer in business....belts had separated in the back tire and then this last weekend I had a blow out on the highway...so need to get all or at least two. Any comments would be appreciated...