2003 OEM glass convertible top installed on an 01 Boxster - Page 2 - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

23109VC · 04-29-2009, 07:54 AM

thanks for the detailed explanation.

when my plastic window eventually becomes in need of replacement, this is a serious option. thanks for sharing with us!! now we know we can do it.

Boxtaboy · 04-29-2009, 08:00 AM

Thanks all, for the nice comments. It was really a fun project, and I can't believe it was just a plug and play bolt in. I'm sure once the word gets out, it'll start getting tough to find these tops.....but it is totally worth the effort in looking for one as you can see. I can't tell you how nice it is to finally not have to do the chop, polish the plastic window with Plexus every other week, or worry if the top will crack if it's too cold out.

As for making the 03/04 tops work with the pre-2000 model years, I think my friend Maurice will be the first one who will complete the job. Others have tried the conversion to a pre-2000, but I don't think anyone has successfully done it yet. The top does bolt in fine, but the problem is that the top relay and top transmissions/microswitches are different in the earlier models, and that makes it difficult for the top to know how to cycle correctly.

My pal is waiting for all his parts to come in to do the conversion, as his is a pre-2000 model year Boxster. I am confident he will be able to do it, and will ask him to post his results here when he's finished. He tells me it definitely is possible though, but I'm not sure what exactly is involved, so I'll let him post his results when he's figured it out.

Boxtaboy · 04-29-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick3000

Great Job!
I had heard the tops where interchangeable, but you are the first person I have heard of who has actually done this. When my plastic window breaks I will definately be doing this.
Do you know if it will work on a '99?
And what relays do you need to replace, do you have the part numbers?
Thanks!

Btw, just to clarify, in late 1999, Porsche made the changes to the top relay and top transmissions/microswitches, so it is possible (if your 99 is a late 99 model) that you can just drop in a 2003/2004 top without any modifications. Take a look at this picture....this is a picture of the top motor which is right near the third brake light in the trunk. Just open your top part way, and you'll be able to see this top motor unit. If you have that lever coming out of the top motor, then you will have to modify your relay and transmission microswitches, but if you don't have that lever sticking out, you have the updated parts, and you will not need to make any changes...just pop in the new top and you're good to go!

rick3000 · 04-29-2009, 08:51 AM

Well, I have the old parts. I am interested to see what parts need to be replaced. I found this on RennTech, but it sounds fairly complicated.
I am hoping it ends up being as simple as replacing the motor with the new one, and putting in the new style relay.

Boxtaboy · 04-29-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick3000

Well, I have the old parts. I am interested to see what parts need to be replaced. I found this on RennTech, but it sounds fairly complicated.
I am hoping it ends up being as simple as replacing the motor with the new one, and putting in the new style relay.

Haha...that's funny... the poster Maurice on that board is my pal who helped me install my 03 top. Guess Atta has figured it out, and has made it work for his 99 in conjunction with his Smart Top unit. Good for him. So it is possible, but looks a little involved, requiring some replacement parts and wire cutting/splicing. Probably not too difficult though, if you have some spare time to take it slow.

Maurice will be doing this mod, as he also has sourced the 03 top for his pre-2000, so stay tuned, and I'm sure he'll post any helpful hints.

violametallic-S- · 05-04-2009, 07:09 PM

I have an 01 S and I just ripped my top doing the chop! Anyways im looking for a glass top. Do I need to get the complete top or can I take the skin off and replace it with an 03 Skin with glass?

Chuck W. · 05-04-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violametallic-S-

I have an 01 S and I just ripped my top doing the chop! Anyways im looking for a glass top. Do I need to get the complete top or can I take the skin off and replace it with an 03 Skin with glass?

You need the whole thing. The '01 has three ribs and the '03 has four. I am on the hunt. I will have this mod!

Boxtaboy · 05-05-2009, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violametallic-S-

I have an 01 S and I just ripped my top doing the chop! Anyways im looking for a glass top. Do I need to get the complete top or can I take the skin off and replace it with an 03 Skin with glass?

You can actually get an aftermarket glass windowed soft top made by GAHH, which is made to fit over your older version 3 bow frame. It is not as good as finding a factory 03 or 04 complete top and frame like what I did, but it will work if it is the glass that you just must have.

The reason why the GAHH aftermarket top now advertises a lifetime warranty against the glass separating from the seams is because their initial version of the glass window used to come undone from the canvas when you folded down the top. This is because the older version tops with the plastic window sewn in them were really not made to accomodate a glass window that does not fold in half as the plastic window does when you put your top down. GAHH and other companies had to therefore make a smaller glass window fit in that canvas top to allow it to fold under when the top is in the down position. Since the pressure put on the glass was so high when the top is put down, the glass separated from the canvas seam.

They now have figured out a way to tightly position the glass in the canvas (I think by designing a window pocket) so that it no longer comes undone, but that doesn't mean that there still isn't a lot of pressure being put on it as it folds because there still isn't a 4th bow in the frame (like in the factory 03/04 top frame) that allows for a pressure-less clean fold of the glass window. When I hand folded my factory 03 top and frame prior to installing it, I noticed that there was no pressure put on the window area at all because the 4th bow in the frame permits a pivot point for a clean fold. So with the factory top, you get a bigger window than the GAHH for better vision out the back, more access to the engine from the top (since the glass window completely folds up and out of the way when tilted up- there's also a built in strap in the top canvas that holds the back of the window up for full engine access), and no risk of the glass window separating. It's truly the best option if you can source an 03 or 04 top for your 01 model yr. car.

Perfectlap · 05-05-2009, 07:18 AM

^ did anyone inquire as to what the cost of a new OEM top frame and OEM soft top would be? if installing the entire assembly is a straight forward install seems like you'd save the $500-$700 on installing an aftermarket.
but I guess Porsche will only sell the frame and soft top separately. Too bad.

Boxtaboy · 05-05-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

^ did anyone inquire as to what the cost of a new OEM top frame and OEM soft top would be? if installing the entire assembly is a straight forward install seems like you'd save the $500-$700 on installing an aftermarket.
but I guess Porsche will only sell the frame and soft top separately. Too bad.

Hope you're sitting down before I tell you this,...you can get a brand new 4-bow factory 03 top and frame from Porsche, BUT they will charge you a grand total of... $7,995.00 for it! They say the top frame is made of magnesium, but the pricing reflects gold. LOL. So getting it from a dismantler is really the way to go.

clickman · 05-05-2009, 04:35 PM

Boxtaboy, a PM awaits your kind attention

rick3000 · 05-05-2009, 05:03 PM

GAHH lists the '97-'02 glass upgrade top as having a window that is 35.5" x 12". Can someone measure the '03-'04 glass window? I am curious to see how much larger it actually is, may determine wether it's worth doing.

Boxtaboy · 05-05-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clickman

Boxtaboy, a PM awaits your kind attention

Ok, replied.

Boxtaboy · 05-05-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick3000

GAHH lists the '97-'02 glass upgrade top as having a window that is 35.5" x 12". Can someone measure the '03-'04 glass window? I am curious to see how much larger it actually is, may determine wether it's worth doing.

I can measure for you next time I go to my garage, but I don't think the main appeal of the 03-04 window is the size of the window. I think the main appeal is that it doesn't limit engine access, with the larger glass area and OEM fit/look as secondary. As for whether or not worth doing, I think that's a function of what price you can source it for...if found at similar to price of GAHH or a few hundred higher, I think it's a no brainer. If much higher, then maybe not.

Another thing is that it is actually a lot easier to just swap the entire top frame than stripping off your old top from the frame and installing a GAHH over the old frame. That would usually take at least twice the time to do vs. just swapping out a top frame. The exception would be if you had a pre-2000 model, in which case you'd also have to modify your top relay/transmission set up.

schoir · 05-05-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick3000

Well, I have the old parts. I am interested to see what parts need to be replaced. I found this on RennTech, but it sounds fairly complicated.
I am hoping it ends up being as simple as replacing the motor with the new one, and putting in the new style relay.

Rick:

Not that simple, but not that complicated, either.

You won't have to replace the electric motor, it's the same part number. You will have to re-route the wires to/from the two microswitches on the earlier Boxsters (B-Pillar and small metal lever on top of motor). Then provide for a connection for those two sets of wires to the new connector needed for the driver's side transmission. Then replace the relay. From Atle's most recent post, it appears as though another wire had to be cut to eliminate the "top open" light when the top is in closed position.

Like Boxtaboy said, when I do mine I should have more definitive answers. I'm just waiting for that little connector before I proceed. Another couple of weeks should do it.

Regards, Maurice.

schoir · 05-05-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick3000

Well, I have the old parts. I am interested to see what parts need to be replaced. I found this on RennTech, but it sounds fairly complicated.
I am hoping it ends up being as simple as replacing the motor with the new one, and putting in the new style relay.

Rick:

BTW, if you wanted to stick with your old style transmissions (which is not what I have chosen to do), I don't see why you wouldn't be able to swap in the new '03-'04 glass top and frame in place of your '99 top and frame and have it work the same way that the old top worked.

I don't believe that the change from 3 bow to 4 bow frame would have any negative effect on the timing providied by the after-running time built into the "old" system.

It's worth a try if your old "Version A" transmissions and the rest of your system are working 100%. It's easy enough to put the old top and frame back on if it doesn't work for you, at least until you get the rest of the new parts.

Regards, Maurice.

rick3000 · 05-06-2009, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schoir

BTW, if you wanted to stick with your old style transmissions (which is not what I have chosen to do), I don't see why you wouldn't be able to swap in the new '03-'04 glass top and frame in place of your '99 top and frame and have it work the same way that the old top worked.

Could you elaborate on this? So why bother changing the transmission if it may work without changing anything?
Also, what sort of cost are you looking at in addition to the top, to retrofit the '03-'04 top to a pre'-00 the way you are going to do it?
Thanks!

schoir · 05-08-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick3000

Could you elaborate on this? So why bother changing the transmission if it may work without changing anything?
Also, what sort of cost are you looking at in addition to the top, to retrofit the '03-'04 top to a pre'-00 the way you are going to do it?
Thanks!

Rick:

The "Version B" transmissions are MUCH more reliable than the earlier version. There is no "half-moon gear" in the newer style transmissions, so you never experience the V-Levers rotating the gear past the 50th tooth and then having the "hydraulic" pushrod snapping back. Sometimes over and over again. Sometimes ending up in a dead zone. The newer cable sheaths also are not prone to stretching as the old ones were, thereby more likely avoiding the "retraction" of the inner speedometer-type cable and the possible damage that can cause if you are not paying attention (including tweaking the clamshell).

Also, the timing system in the newer style transmissions is better designed to prevent the malfunction that occurs fairly frequently with respect to the "top open" idiot light not going off when the roof is completely closed or completely open. There is no "after-running" time built into the newer system.

You can get a used set of transmissions, with cables, and then buy a new style relay, along with sourcing an electrical connector to plug into the front side of the driver's side transmission. That whole set up should come in around $400 total.

If your old version set up is working perfectly, I don't see any immediate downside to just installing the '03-04 top and frame. If it doesn't work or if the old system fails after a while (could be years), you could then go ahead and do the rest of the conversion. It would also give you time to find a good deal on the newer parts.

Regards, Maurice.

clickman · 05-10-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schoir

The "Version B" transmissions are MUCH more reliable than the earlier version. .

When did the Version B start?

attasvg · 05-13-2009, 08:10 AM

Great job!

I put one on my 99. Easy job - no adjustments, other than the play in the bolts. Had to lift the frame a little while tightening it.

I did have to change out the transmissions, control relay and re-wire though, since this is a 99, and that WAS a hassle. Very much worth it, though. Since I had to get a new relay I got a SmartTOP relay and the comfort of just hitting a button while driving in/out of my driveway, no more holding the button or having to chop the top, is fantastic! :dance:

I paid $2000 for the top w/frame, and the top actually has more wear marks than my 99 top though.

Seems like you got a really good deal.

Atle