Ultra High Perf. All-Season Vs. Max Perf. Summer Tires

[dja1980]

Originally Posted by paulv

From what I've seen, the tires with "UHPAS" labels tend to have high speed ratings (W & Y).. I've put a set of Conti Extreme Contracts on my 07 Box because I bought these tires before for another car and was happy with their overall performance. Check the reviews/ratings at TireRack. My tires were about $660 shipped and it was another $140 for mounting/road force balancing. Keep in mind that these UHPAS tires can only handle light snow, but with a 4" clearance on our Boxsters, we'll be leaving the car in the garage when the big snow storms arrive.

Regards,
paul...

Thanks! That's some good information. The thing about TireRack is that they have 6 categories for All-Season tires and 6 categories for Summer tires. I guess the good thing about the UHPAS tires is that they are rated highest performance in the All-Season class.

I have read many reviews on the tires I am interested in. Overall, the reviews are good for both of the tires I previously linked to, but I came here because there is a lack of reviews from Boxster owners. Mostly, I see reviews from Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, and Audi owners.

The Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires are too new, and I can't find any reviews on them. However, I did pull up the reviews for the Pilot Sport A/S (non-Plus), and I based my review on those. I'm still not sure what the difference is between the two. They look nearly identical to one another. The only thing I can tell is that the non-Plus tires aren't available in the sizes we need.

I'm leaning more toward the Pilots at this point.

Originally Posted by ekam

You're making a compromise with these all-seasons tires. It'll give you adequate summer/winter traction no doubt.

It's not how fast they'll wear out - think of the safety aspect, you'll definitely get worse braking distance for sure.

You have to realize your driving style plays a big part on how long tires last - the tread wear rating is just one value from the whole formula.

Tires IMO are the most important aspect for our cars. Spend the money where it should be spent.

But again, don't you think that this plays a bigger part for those who really drive their Boxsters the way they were built to be driven? If a person who drives their car the way I do wouldn't be able to tell the difference, it seems like a waste to spend more money to be replaced in half the time.

Safety is a concern though. I wonder if there is any data out there to show roughly how much braking distance would be compromised by going with the UHPAS tires. This is definitely worth considering.

Thanks for all the good information!

[CA_Boxster]

Based on the points you've made I say get the all-seasons. They give you the most versatility and probably have the better tread life. Yes, Summer tires will be stickier, offer better grip and will stop faster, but that's what soft tires specially made to be used in warm weather on dry roads that they can grab will do. If you don't have a particular reason to go for the Summer tires, and it doesn't sound like you're motivated to do so, then don't buy the extreme end of the performance and limit the conditions in which you feel comfortable driving.

I have Summer tires but where I live it's pretty much always Summer, and even given that I weighed wet grip heavily in my selection. There's nothing wrong with performance all-seasons. The rubber won't freeze in cold weather and you'll get a little tread for the early Fall snow flurries.

[husker boxster]

I drive my sports cars everyday unless we get a pile of snow (then I stay home). I've been down your road and wrestled with the same questions you have. Here's what I've learned:

Two cars back I purchased a new MR2 Spyder. It came with Yokohama Advans which were great in the summer but not worth a crap in the snow (even a few flakes). I purchased a set of Firestone all-seasons and MR Two got around great in the snow.

I then purchased an 01S that had a set of tires that would need replacing before the upcoming winter. Since it was going to be an everyday car, I figured the AS tires would be the way to go. I bought a set of Kumho AS tires and found they weren't very good in the snow and ice. Luckily we didn't have a severe winter and I got by without sliding into anything. The next winter I bought a set of Blizzaks and had no problems. We had a lot of snow and ice that year.

I used the Blizzaks on my LE this last winter and they worked great with the traction control. We had a lot of icey weather and I had no problems starting up hills.

So what do I make of all of this? I think the AS tires worked on MR2 because they were 55 series tires vs the 40 & 35 series tires on the Box. Wider tires are less effective as a snow tire. Also, AS tires are a compromise. If you're a tire manufacturer building an AS tire for a Porsche, are you going to lean towards performance or snow ability? Obviously they're going to lean towards performance at the expense of bad weather ability because they don't want them blowing out at 155mph. If you're going to drive your Box in the winter, put snow tires on it.

I know you say it'll stay in the garage when there's bad weather. You also say you'll drive it in winter months. How accurate are your weather forecasters? I've gone to work in the morning with the forecast for a nice, clear day. When I look out the window at lunch time, it's snowing to beat the band. What do you do then? You don't want to get caught out and have to cross your fingers on your trip home.

I don't know how good either of the AS tires are that you're looking at. Maybe others have experience with them. My advice is to not spend your $$$ on AS tires for a Porsche, you'll not be happy with the results. Good luck.

[stephen wilson]

My 2 cents! It looks like either category has better tires available then what you are currently running. The AS tires do give up some dry handling, a "tire rack" rating of 9.1 vs. 9.4, but rate just as well or better in the wet. The AS Pirelli's you linked didn't rate very high, but the Michelin's are promising. I have used Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS tires on an Acura RSX and thought they were a great performing tire, especially in the rain.
As far as your worries about braking performance, any of the tires you're considering are much better than what you have now. The AS's would actually be better if you get caught in the rain.

[Lil bastard]

Lots of valid opinions. I too think for what you describe, the all-seasons are the best way to go. Surely, performance will not match the performance tires, but then, as you describe it, you're not trying to any turn fast laps.

Even with the M/S tires, and snow depth aside, the compunds used may not perform well in extremely cold weather. In moderately cold weather, you want to take it easy til the tires warm up, maybe 5-10 miles in Il temps.

Another issue, or compromise, will probably be tire width. A wider tire, even with a larger contact patch, is likely to have less grip in cold weather, especially on any snow patches. The skinnier the tire, the more weight/in² on the contact patch which will translate to better grip, same in the rain, though less pronounced.

You may only drive on sunny winter days, but hard tires from the cold will offer much less grip. You might consider a set of winter tires - they'll be run fewer miles and so will last several seasons. It's an added expense, but everything being talked about here is a compromise of one sort or another.

[renzop]

It's quite simple really. Buy summer tires if you know you will NEVER drive the car in below 40 degree weather and you will rarely drive in heavy rain and you will rarely drive when below 50 degrees. Otherwise buy all season tires.

[dja1980]

You all make some really good points. Samson, thanks for the TireRack test links. Those were very helpful.

Stephen, you make a really good point regarding the comparison with my current tires. I think that is what this is going to come down to. Since my old tires are the only thing I have to compare to, do you guys think I will be disappointed by going with the UHPAS tires? I could definitely understand why it would be difficult to switch from PS2's to PS A/S's, but if the results of the PS A/S's are equal to or better than my current tires, I would be happy.

I have been reading reviews on TireRack all day, and I think I have ruled out the PZero Nero M&S's. I'm still not 100% sure that I want to go with the UHPAS tires, but the more I read, the more promising the Pilot Sport A/S's are sounding. As expected, every once in a while I come across a negative review (as with almost anything), but overall, the reviews are overwhelmingly positive. Many people even comment about how the tire performs more like a Summer tire than an A/S tire.

I did come across one review from a 911 owner:
"i bought these tires as the porsche "n" rated michelins i had would really beat you up when driving the car, they were michelin mxx3 i belive, the backs were worn down to the wear bars, could not find this model any more. so i called these were recommended to me. car rides nice and smooth and you do not fell every bump so bad like before, even my wife said they were nice, and for her to say that means a lot.
now the turn in might not be as sharp as with the n rated michelin, but its is very small trade off to the smooth ride, now do not underestimate this tire a small delay but will cut right in and go where you point the car with no tire noise. the side wall is really thick. the higher michelin pilot performance summer michelin has real thin walls.
if you shop for porsche tires for you 911 this is very important, you need a tire with a stiff side wall. that is why the Porsche N rated tires have this, N rated tires have a really thick wall to support that rear engine drive car and put the power down in a corner without the side wall slipping left or right, make sense.
the michelin all season tire is awesome. slight trade off for quick turn in but makes driving the car 10 times better and once you know how the turn in feels you can romp on her real good. hope this helps someone. i buy michelin for all my cars, you get the milage out of them and they give the best ride, the extra money is worth it to me."

I'm going to continue to sift through the reviews for this tire to see if I can find a few more from Porsche owners.