2003 Boxster S - prevent IMS failure? - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Jan67 · 06-08-2008, 06:01 AM

Hello,

I'm new to this forum. I've bought myself a 2003 boxster S with 35000 miles. Looks good, drives like dream.

I'm however getting a bit uncomfortable reading a lot of stories about broken engines. Since i bought the car private: no guarantee.

My impression is that the engine block problems occured with 1996- 1999 cars (Boxster 2.5 and 996 3.4). RMS (rear main seal) and IMS (intermediate shaft) issues seem to continue however and it would't be the first '03 with IMS.

The car has a slight leakage from the clutch housing, probably RMS. It wouldn't bother me to continue driving it, maybe the RMS repair could be postponed and done together with the clutch (round 50.000 miles).

Now to the point of my post: maybe the oil doesn't come from the RMS but is coming from the IMS rear seal. I'm getting worried that in that case IMS failure is on its way. So i'm thinking of asking the shop to pull the gearbox. In that process, RMS and IMS rear seals would be changed. Can enything further be done to diminish or prevent IMS failure, i mean fitting a newer version of the IMS or IMS bearing?

Thanks for your opinions
Bye, Jan

06-08-2008, 06:42 AM

I think IMS= intermediate shaft...not a seal.

Adam · 06-08-2008, 06:52 AM

Jan, the leak is more than likely coming from the rear main seal. I don't think the intermediate shaft even has a seal that could leak. As far as preventing IMS failures I know of none. IMS failure is far less prevalent than RMS leaks. Just enjoy the car and try not to worry about it. The chances of you wrecking your vehicle are probably greater than that of it suffering an engine failure.

Tool Pants · 06-08-2008, 07:39 AM

The flange for the intermediate shaft has a seal that can leak.

The original has a single black o-ring - the one on the left. Then Porsche changed the design to an orange seal with several sealing ribs (I think 4). This was about 4 years ago, maybe longer.

To get the updated seal you also need to replace the flange.

The clutch on my 1997 with 67,000 miles was replaced last with. I had all original seals. There was a slight seepage from the back of the engine. So I went with the newest reseal. New case bolts, new RMS, and new flange.

Jan67 · 06-08-2008, 10:24 AM

Hi,

Thanks for the fast answers!

Rick: the company you're referring to is autofarm. They adapt the more recent IMS (with larger bearing) so that it fits older engines. At the moment it's not clear to me if my engine already has the newer IMS or not. I gues not because i have seen many 2003 boxster IMs failure stories on the internet...
I agree that changing a seal can't prevent a bearing form failing, however i have also read tha IMS failure (sometimes or always?) happens because the 3 bolts of the flange fail, causing the bearing to 'fall' out of the engine and the IMS to create havoc in the engine... Since my boxster has a leak, i am getting scared it might not be the RMS but the beginning of the IMS bearing popping out...

Adam: we have almost the same car: mine is a red 2003 6-speed 3.2S with black interior. It is on standard 17" rims altough. Here in europe the colour is called indian red instead of guards red. You have a point in that the chances are low that the engine might break. On the other hand the car would give me greater joy without thinking about a 12.000 $ repair every time i floor the right pedal

Tool pants: thanks for the description and the pictures. Very informative.

Thanks to all of you

Jan

Tool Pants · 06-08-2008, 10:46 AM

It is not the 3 bolts for flange that fail, it is the nut in the middle of the flange for the bearing support.

The bottom green line is the nut that has broken away from the middle of the flange. Once this happens there is a hole in the middle of the flange and oil pours out.

Hate to tell you, since you have a 2003. The picture is a 2003 2.7 and I took it almost 5 years ago when the 2003s first came out.

Adam · 06-08-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan67

Hi,

Adam: we have almost the same car: mine is a red 2003 6-speed 3.2S with black interior. It is on standard 17" rims altough. Here in europe the colour is called indian red instead of guards red. You have a point in that the chances are low that the engine might break. On the other hand the car would give me greater joy without thinking about a 12.000 $ repair every time i floor the right pedal

Thanks to all of you

Jan

If you need more piece of mind how about getting an aftermarket warranty? I have warranty up to 2010 or 70k miles so if she blows she blows. Also, I drive mine hard all the time and it's been over-revved a couple times on accident. The needle has probably hit the limiter hundreds of times mostly when I autocross the car. Nothing has broken yet. Most of the stories I hear on engine failures are low mileage cars that have been babied so don't feel bad about putting your foot on the gas.....you're not hurting it as long as the engine is properly warmed up. This engine has been extremely reliable and able to handle everything I've thrown at it so far. Remember, for every person that reports an engine failure on a forum, there are thousands out there just happily motoring along with a healthy car.

rick3000 · 06-08-2008, 06:52 AM

All Boxster's are prone to RMS and IMS failures, but they tend to be more common in earlier years. Also know that once you get past 35-40K miles your chance of having one of these problems decreases but that is not to say it can't happen.

If your seeing oil leakage, a tell tale sign of an RMS problem, I would not try to postpone fixing it. Your risking a pricey engine replacement vs. a $600 US seal replacement.

Also, IMS has nothing to do with a seal. The only warning for this, is if you hear a faint sound that sounds like a coin bouncing around in the engine compartment. If your really concerned with IMS, there was a company a while back in the UK that was selling modified intermediate shafts, that they claimed were failure proof. I can't recall the website, but someone posted it a few months ago. I'll look for it.

Lil bastard · 06-12-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick3000

All Boxster's are prone to RMS and IMS failures, but they tend to be more common in earlier years. Also know that once you get past 35-40K miles your chance of having one of these problems decreases but that is not to say it can't happen...

With IMS, the problem is more prone on later cars. Porsche re-designed the IMS in 2001 to eliminate a noise/vibration concern. This eliminated one of the bearings resulting in more shaft flex. This is when the IMS issue was born. Reports of IMS failure on earlier model years are very rare.

rick3000 · 06-12-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

With IMS, the problem is more prone on later cars. Porsche re-designed the IMS in 2001 to eliminate a noise/vibration concern. This eliminated one of the bearings resulting in more shaft flex. This is when the IMS issue was born. Reports of IMS failure on earlier model years are very rare.

I didn't know that, so I guess an earlier year could actually be better then, because you only have to worry about RMS which can be detected ahead of time.
Vs. having worry about RMS and IMS (which is hard to detect) with later years.

Do you which year they made the change?

silver arrow · 06-12-2008, 07:28 PM

I have the same worries, but I console myself this way.

I paid $15,000 for a 2000 2.7 Boxster with 56,000 miles. If it doesn't die, it will probably always be worth at least that much. If the engine dies, I spend $15,000 on a 3.8l conversion and the car will be worth just south of $30,000 (at least that's what I have seen them sell for). Either way, I can't lose money on the car. I do all my own work, so maintenance is cheap. I love this thing. I used to buy a new car every few years and flush money down the toilet. I'd have 10 Boxsters with all that wasted depreciation. Your car is a win/win situation, stop worrying.

2001saxster · 06-12-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silver arrow

I have the same worries, but I console myself this way.

I paid $15,000 for a 2000 2.7 Boxster with 56,000 miles. If it doesn't die, it will probably always be worth at least that much. If the engine dies, I spend $15,000 on a 3.8l conversion and the car will be worth just south of $30,000 (at least that's what I have seen them sell for). Either way, I can't lose money on the car. I do all my own work, so maintenance is cheap. I love this thing. I used to buy a new car every few years and flush money down the toilet. I'd have 10 Boxsters with all that wasted depreciation. Your car is a win/win situation, stop worrying.

How could you get a 3.8 conversion for $15,000? I would think the engine alone would be well over that price, plus wouldn't you have to do other upgrades as well? I'd love to know if it could be done. I'll have to make the final decision about what to do with mine in a few days probably. Just waiting to hear if it is re-buildable now. It would be nice to be able to make lemonaide out of the lemon I got.

Brucelee · 06-13-2008, 07:29 AM

I paid $15,000 for a 2000 2.7 Boxster with 56,000 miles. If it doesn't die, it will probably always be worth at least that much

I am curious. Why do you believe that your Boxster will not depreciate?

Cloudsurfer · 06-14-2008, 06:10 AM

I certainly would not say your car is not going to depreciate, however, is your $15k Boxster depreciating less than a new car, whatever it happens to be- absolutely.

In terms of the motor swaps, I don't think you can do a 3.8 for $15k, but you can definitely do a 3.6 for that. I myself am throwing the idea around of a 3.6 swap into my S while my 3.2 is still good and worth something on the parts market. If you do all your own work, and find a 3.6 for between $6k-$9k, the whole thing can be done for under $12k. However, once you do a motor swap, don't expect to get the full value out of your upgrades back when you sell it, unless you find the very rare buyer who wants exactly what you have and is willing to pay a premium for it.

Patrick

Brucelee · 06-14-2008, 10:01 AM

I believe that the larger Boxer engines have the IMS issue as well but am not sur of it.

The 3.4 motor from the 1999-2000 certainly did.

silver arrow · 06-15-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I paid $15,000 for a 2000 2.7 Boxster with 56,000 miles. If it doesn't die, it will probably always be worth at least that much

I am curious. Why do you believe that your Boxster will not depreciate?

If the car is maintained and kept in good condition, it will probably always be worth 12-15k. I see similar cars selling at dealerships for 18-20k and private party selling for 15-19k.

Look at the 914, it sold new for $3500. A 2.0l car in good condition sells for 12k.

Compared to buying a new car and watching your money go down the drain with every payment, a good condition Boxster is a good deal.

Brucelee · 06-15-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silver arrow

If the car is maintained and kept in good condition, it will probably always be worth 12-15k. I see similar cars selling at dealerships for 18-20k and private party selling for 15-19k.

Look at the 914, it sold new for $3500. A 2.0l car in good condition sells for 12k.

Compared to buying a new car and watching your money go down the drain with every payment, a good condition Boxster is a good deal.

LOL there are Boxsters selling for under 10G. Also, there are 944s selling for 5G. All cars depreciate.