2003 Boxster S - prevent IMS failure?

[2001saxster]

Originally Posted by silver arrow

I have the same worries, but I console myself this way.

I paid $15,000 for a 2000 2.7 Boxster with 56,000 miles. If it doesn't die, it will probably always be worth at least that much. If the engine dies, I spend $15,000 on a 3.8l conversion and the car will be worth just south of $30,000 (at least that's what I have seen them sell for). Either way, I can't lose money on the car. I do all my own work, so maintenance is cheap. I love this thing. I used to buy a new car every few years and flush money down the toilet. I'd have 10 Boxsters with all that wasted depreciation. Your car is a win/win situation, stop worrying.

How could you get a 3.8 conversion for $15,000? I would think the engine alone would be well over that price, plus wouldn't you have to do other upgrades as well? I'd love to know if it could be done. I'll have to make the final decision about what to do with mine in a few days probably. Just waiting to hear if it is re-buildable now. It would be nice to be able to make lemonaide out of the lemon I got.

[Brucelee]

I paid $15,000 for a 2000 2.7 Boxster with 56,000 miles. If it doesn't die, it will probably always be worth at least that much

I am curious. Why do you believe that your Boxster will not depreciate?

[Cloudsurfer]

I certainly would not say your car is not going to depreciate, however, is your $15k Boxster depreciating less than a new car, whatever it happens to be- absolutely.

In terms of the motor swaps, I don't think you can do a 3.8 for $15k, but you can definitely do a 3.6 for that. I myself am throwing the idea around of a 3.6 swap into my S while my 3.2 is still good and worth something on the parts market. If you do all your own work, and find a 3.6 for between $6k-$9k, the whole thing can be done for under $12k. However, once you do a motor swap, don't expect to get the full value out of your upgrades back when you sell it, unless you find the very rare buyer who wants exactly what you have and is willing to pay a premium for it.

Patrick

[Brucelee]

I believe that the larger Boxer engines have the IMS issue as well but am not sur of it.

The 3.4 motor from the 1999-2000 certainly did.

[blinkwatt]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I believe that the larger Boxer engines have the IMS issue as well but am not sur of it.

The 3.4 motor from the 1999-2000 certainly did.

The early 3.4L 996 motor had/has cracked sleeve issues like on the 2.5L 986 engine.

The later model 3.4L & 3.6L 996 engine suffer from IMS failures. 3.2L,3.4L & 3.6L engines all seem more prone to IMS failures compared to the 2.7L engine.

[Frodo]

When I’ve talked about the possibility of catastrophic engine failure in the Boxster (ie IMS failure), my kid (a 20 year-old budding shade tree mechanic) asks me why I don’t I just get an aftermarket oil pressure gauge. Apparently they will give you clear and immediate notice if your pressure drops. The one he put in his Celica can be set to a pressure below which it will display a visible flashing red light PLUS a “horribly annoying” (as he puts it) audible alarm. Assuming one is paying attention and shuts down the engine quickly on a precipitous oil pressure drop, might this not convert a complete engine failure to a much less costly (and relatively simple-to-fix) IMS failure?

[Tool Pants]

If the intermediate shaft bearing(s) are about to fail or have failed, cannot be detected with an oil pressure gauge.

Your son is talking about normal crankshaft shell bearings and those type of bearings are nothing like the ball roller bearings on the end of the intermediate shaft of the Boxster flat 6 engine.

Your son is smart but this is a flat engine with an intermediate shaft inside the case.

[silver arrow]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I paid $15,000 for a 2000 2.7 Boxster with 56,000 miles. If it doesn't die, it will probably always be worth at least that much

I am curious. Why do you believe that your Boxster will not depreciate?

If the car is maintained and kept in good condition, it will probably always be worth 12-15k. I see similar cars selling at dealerships for 18-20k and private party selling for 15-19k.

Look at the 914, it sold new for $3500. A 2.0l car in good condition sells for 12k.

Compared to buying a new car and watching your money go down the drain with every payment, a good condition Boxster is a good deal.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by silver arrow

If the car is maintained and kept in good condition, it will probably always be worth 12-15k. I see similar cars selling at dealerships for 18-20k and private party selling for 15-19k.

Look at the 914, it sold new for $3500. A 2.0l car in good condition sells for 12k.

Compared to buying a new car and watching your money go down the drain with every payment, a good condition Boxster is a good deal.

LOL there are Boxsters selling for under 10G. Also, there are 944s selling for 5G. All cars depreciate.

[Jan67]

Hello,

I contacted Hartech, an independent UK Porsche specialist who rebuilds watercooled boxer engines. (BTW, they also have a very interesting buyers guide on www.hartech.org).

Since my boxster has the common RMS leak (but not bad up to now), the gearbox has to come off anyway. I asked Hartech if they think some preventive action can be taken concerning the IMS. They suggest to change the IMS bearing and fit a newer spindle design in the proces. They can do the job without removing the engine or the IMS.

My car has only 35.000 miles, but they suggest these IMS bearings suffer from heat (closed bearings), so replacing the bearing is usefull).

Greetz
Jan

[23109VC]

of all the boxster motors over the various years - which is the most sturdy?

my dad has a 2000 with the 2.7L engine. his got a new motor due to a RMS leak when it was nearly new..before 10k... now it has 75k miles on it and it runs like a champ.

no oil leaks no nothin'. knock on wood.

[silver arrow]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

LOL there are Boxsters selling for under 10G. Also, there are 944s selling for 5G. All cars depreciate.

Wow, I wish they had been for sale when I was buying. I searched the entire east coast for a 2000-2002 2.7 in good condition and couldn't find one for 10k. Where are these located. I'll pick up an extra Boxster for that kind of money. That way if the engine goes, I'll have a spare.

[chitowndad]

I also contacted the Hartech guys and what he had to comment is below... The problem is that these guys are in the UK. The challenge is to find someone in a major US city that understands the issue like Hartech does. For the Chicago-land guys - I once saw a Porsche specialist on Irving Park Road East of Itasca (Roselle or Bensenville?). I'll try and Google it and contact them.

-Steve

----------- Explanation from the Hartech guys----------------------------------------
The main problem in our opinion is that the bearing is shrouded with a seal
so that it starts out with grease in it, but as it runs the grease is
gradually replaced by oil. This oil however does not get in and out very
quickly - so inside the bearing all the minute bits of metal that wear off
stay and form a kind paste while the oil is not circulating - but is
trapped - so gets hot. This combination can prematurely wear out the
bearing.

The bearing can be accessed by anyone removing a gearbox and flywheel and
then the bearing carrier and any garage could manage this.

The outer bearing seal could then be picked out of the way and the whole
things reassembled except to do it you should remove the two chain
tensioners and pull the intermediate shaft sideways to get the carrier back
in place. Now the original shaft on older rmodels has a cut out for a seal
and is very thin and weak - so it is a worry that in pulling it sideways -
it may damage the spindle and lead to a fatigue failure later - so we
replace it with a larger spindle (nothing clever). The bearing could be
replaced at the same time but we think, more often than not, the old one
will be OK with the better cooler oil feed.

[chitowndad]

This is the Porsche place in Bensenville that I was thinking of:

http://midwesteurosport.com/

Anyone have any experience with these guys?

Originally Posted by chitowndad

This is the Porsche place in Bensenville that I was thinking of:

http://midwesteurosport.com/

Anyone have any experience with these guys?

The place is a dump. Great race shop, but I would not take my personal car there.

[fragdude]

Toolpants,

You are obviously very savy mechanically, especially so with porsches, as it seems. I recently had a leaky RMS and IMS seal. My mechanic, who has been working on porsches specifically for over 25 years, says that porsche states that on the 911 you have to change the whole IMS flange, but on the Boxster you just change the seal (he then showed me a new flange w/ seal to point out the seal, which did have multiple ribs). Any particular reason for this? Is the new flange better in some other way? is it worth it going back there and questioning this?

It did seem strange that the 911 would get a new flange while the boxster just get a new seal since the engines are extremely similar.

[chitowndad]

This was the last reply that I got from the Hartech guy:

There is a later Porsche spindle carrier and spindle that may fit your
engine - a check with your engine number and Porsche parts department may
confirm and this may be a way to upgrade your particular engine within the
Porsche network over there - good luck.

[chitowndad]

bmusatti,
Sometimes the best looking shops have the worst mechanics! I tend to believe that the guys that race cars know the engine the best. I have had really bad luck with Toyota mechanics lately - they just don't try hard enough to solve the problem and want to fix things that don't need fixing...

-Steve