Any Porsche exec's listening?

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Jeph

Please don't let this example deter you... You'll miss out on a great car. When everything goes fine with the ownership of a Boxster, one doesn't post that "everything is going swell." These engine tragedy cries are often the loudest. I'm not debating the whole "Should Porsche do something" riff. I'm just mentioning to read a few posts of engine failures and decide the car is no good is premature. But it's your call of course.

Another thing; those that have these problems usually aren't on the message board for long... not because they have no use for it due to engine explosion, but because it's first (and last) thing they post about. These posts are like grenades.

I don't think we are overeacting on the engines. Having said that, it is a great car. Just not out of warranty.

[Jeph]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I don't think we are overeacting on the engines. Having said that, it is a great car. Just not out of warranty.

I don't think anyone is overreacting. I'd post my complaints about my engine failing.

I will disagree with your statement that these are only great cars during the warranty period (and a majority of forum members would side with me). Mostly because that's a pretty vague statement. Every car is great under warranty!

Am I wrong to say the main difference between a car under warranty and car out of warranty is who pays for repairs? If one can't afford the maintenance on the car, they can't afford the car. If one can't afford the car, then your statement would be accurate. Otherwise, what makes it not so great? The chance that the engine might fail?

@Jaxonalden
I think even a car with a clear/desirable history can still crap out, as in the case of 2001saxster.

[senna21]

Originally Posted by Jeph

If one can't afford the maintenance on the car, they can't afford the car. If one can't afford the car, then your statement would be accurate. Otherwise, what makes it not so great? The chance that the engine might fail?

The issue isn't the cost of repairs. The issue is the cost of a $10K engine failure on a car that's currently depreciating like a rock. Maybe you think a total engine replacement is a "normal" repair I certainly don't. Window regulators, torn rear windows, ignition components, rear wheel bearings and even having to replace 4 catalytic converters before 100k miles I would consider general maintenance but certainly not complete engine failure.

As far as the abuse question goes I'd say if Porsche isn't engineering its cars to test out the rev limiter at least once a day then they certainly don't deserve the price tag they've got. My little Toyota's got a redline of 7k. It's widely known within the MR2 community the actual redline is closer to 8.5k. It came with 200hp but the stock internals have been proven to hold up to 500hp. The turbo is set to run at 10psi while it could be run to 17 safely. My point? Toyota over engineered the car and then detuned it to be reliable. I'm sure Porsche does the same. If you read the article about the engine failures I'd posted one point they make is none of the track cars they have have ever had an engine failure. Porsche designs cars that will have to be driven on the Autobahn on a regular basis, do you really think they would factor that in to the engineering?

But, as we all know they made a mistake. Either in the design or the manufacture of the engine. I've only driven a few but I can tell you that I do believe they're wonderful little cars. I know an owner with over 150k on his odometer and has never had any problems. And he has no hesitation to hit the rev limiter every now and again. I also have a coworker who's got over 60k on theirs and I doubt it's ever been brought above 5k. Their only issue was with the top not working at one time.

Like I said I'd love to have one. But, I'm not happy about having to roll the dice on whether or not I might have to replace the engine before 200k miles. If there were a rebuild option like Autofarm's here in the US I wouldn't have a problem at all. But when the option is $10k to Porsche or $3,500 for a used motor that might also take a dump on a car that's depreciating quickly that's not a good financial option. Whether you've got the money for the repair or not.

[Jeph]

I don't think engine replacement is "normal." Nor do I think the occurrence of this problem is "normal."

Many of you make it seem like it's 50/50 -the car may or may not explode. That's annoying. Debbie Downers...

Mail to:

Porsche Cars North America
Attention: Customer Commitment
980 Hammond Drive, Suite 1000
Atlanta, GA 30328

[Paul]

Air cooled 911s require a lot more regular maintenance than the motors Porsche sells today. Some air cooled 911 owners pull their motors every 15,000 miles to adjust the valves.

Today's motors make more horsepower per cubic inch, get better mileage and in LA actually clean the air.

IIRC, Porsches used to have a 1 year 12,000 mile warranty.

Yesterday's Porsche 911 motors leak oil. Today's owners go ballistic when a rubber seal on the back of the crankshaft allows oil to drip on their garage floor.

I encourage every Porsche owner to do their own maintenance, most of it is very simple. Even the 60,000 986 service is easily doable by anyone handy with basic tools.

Bottom line, we've bought a toy, enjoy it anyway you like, replace it if you break it. If you can find more fun, for less cost or financial risk, buy another toy.

I haven't shifted mine above 7000 yet today, but the wife just asked if we are going to later this evening.....

[ky944s]

Originally Posted by Paul

I encourage every Porsche owner to do their own maintenance, most of it is very simple. Even the 60,000 986 service is easily doable by anyone handy with basic tools.

Bottom line, we've bought a toy,

I do my own maintenance. 60,0000 miles would be great if the engine makes it that far.
A toy? I'm glad you think of it that way. I know it's not an investment but, when you finance or lease $30-$50,000 and for a new one more to me it is no longer a toy.
At the cost of parts (new or rebuilt engine) they should "almost" be bullet proof.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Jeph

I don't think anyone is overreacting. I'd post my complaints about my engine failing.

I will disagree with your statement that these are only great cars during the warranty period (and a majority of forum members would side with me). Mostly because that's a pretty vague statement. Every car is great under warranty!

Am I wrong to say the main difference between a car under warranty and car out of warranty is who pays for repairs? If one can't afford the maintenance on the car, they can't afford the car. If one can't afford the car, then your statement would be accurate. Otherwise, what makes it not so great? The chance that the engine might fail?

@Jaxonalden
I think even a car with a clear/desirable history can still crap out, as in the case of 2001saxster.

Well, this is all subjective. I don't think having a car with an engine that is overaly at risk for grenading is a great car. We of course are not talking about the cost of maintenance, we are talking about the cost of a new engine.

Large difference there, at least to me.

Can I afford to replace an engine? Certainly I can. Do I want to? Ah, no!

Would I own a used boxster without a warranty? No, I would not. Anyone is free to take that risk, just not for me, thanks.

Now, to make sure that no one thinks that I am totally risk adverse, I have a Lexus with 128K miles on it. Love the car, and it has no warranty. I am worried.

Not really. Could the engine go tomorrow. Yes.

Will it cost 12K for another? No.

Its all pereptual, nothing here is really factual as only Porsche has the data and they ain't talking.

[pbanders]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

Well, this is all subjective. I don't think having a car with an engine that is overaly at risk for grenading is a great car. We of course are not talking about the cost of maintenance, we are talking about the cost of a new engine.

Large difference there, at least to me.

Can I afford to replace an engine? Certainly I can. Do I want to? Ah, no!

Would I own a used boxster without a warranty? No, I would not. Anyone is free to take that risk, just not for me, thanks.

Now, to make sure that no one thinks that I am totally risk adverse, I have a Lexus with 128K miles on it. Love the car, and it has no warranty. I am worried.

Not really. Could the engine go tomorrow. Yes.

Will it cost 12K for another? No.

Its all pereptual, nothing here is really factual as only Porsche has the data and they ain't talking.

I agree completely. Data shows that the Boxster engine has significant design flaws that result in an unusually large number of engines failing (e.g. cylinder liner, IMS). These failures are due to design problems, and are not due to driving our cars hard, but within specified limits of operation. This has been clearly evidenced by the number of owners who have rarely (if ever) driven their cars hard, who have clean OBDII records, who have still had engine failures.

Porsche's reluctance to extend support outside of warranty for those failures has been lamentable. It is for this reason that I've done the same as you, and purchased an aftermarket warranty. IMO, it's cheap insurance.