Shortlived Boxster engines survey
 

There has been some recent discussion on another thread about Boxster engines blowing at anywhere form 20K-120K miles.
If this severe problem occurs during the warrantee period, I imagine that Porsche puts in a new engine and you are happily on your way.

HOWEVER, it this happens out-of-warrantee, it is a financial disaster with reported costs of $9000-12000. On older cars, this is 2/3 ot 1/2 of the value of the car!!

If this happened to you, please, please tell us......the milage when it occured, the major fault causing the engine failure, what it cost to replace the engine, and WHAT PORSCHE DID TO MAKE THIS RIGHT. If Porsche paid for replacement of your out-of-warrantee engine, what sort of negotiation, threats, begging, etc was involved with your success at recovering from the loss.

From what we've been hearing this can happen to anyone with any age or milage engine. The experience that you have gained may help the next unfortunate blown engine owner to recover without having to sell the farm or their first born!

Thanks..........

blown engine
 

Hi

My Boxter MY98 blew with 65000 miles. A broken cylinder liner. The car was out of warranty, Porsche did nothing. Found a used Carrera 3.4 which I instaled by myself...

Well that engine bent a crankshaft!

Regards

Kare, Spain

Haven't we done this already... :confused:

Poll: RMS and Engine problem questionaire

No....This survey does not relate specificly to an RMS, although if that was the reason for engine failure it would fit here.
The real reason for this survey is to establish some precedence with Porsche in order to exert leverage if we suffer such an engine failure............ and to understand better what is causing these failures resulting in engine replacement.

Ah, well, it may have turned into mostly an RMS specific thread however the thread is titled:

"RMS and Engine problem questionaire" and one of the poll questions is:
Have you experienced an engine failure (yes/no)

There are also threads of this nature on Rennlist and Renntech for anyone that is looking for additional user data with porsche engine failures.

Bobiam, don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, just hate seeing multiple threads on the same subject.

I keep my fingers crossed and touch wood, my nearly 100k MY99 is doing fine.

This thread was created to gather serious and up-to-date information about issues that can cost readers many thousand $s. Perhaps there is some redundancy, but there is little harm in sharing info about major misfortunes to help fellow readers/members. If it doesn't apply to someone, they need not read it.
Bob

I agree. Please share your stories.

2001 986S... cracked cylinder sleeve at 78K (out of warranty), while on the track. Engine proceeded to hydro-lock, which caused it to throw a rod and crack two exhaust valves... Car had ~1500 track miles on it since it hit 70K... Had a faint clicking sound under acceleration before the death... It is currently being replaced with a 3.6... estimated cost ?,???.??

Engine Failures - Which ones?
 

I currently have a 2000 Boxster that has been a great car. I have recently found a very well optioned 1999, w/19K on it. I have heard stories about catastrophic engine failures on early cars. Was it prone to the 1999 model year? I also understand that Porsche may have corrected the problem in 1999. If they did what vin's were produced after the correction. I don't want to sink a good chunck of change in a low mile 1999 only to be saddled with an engine. Can anyone give me the low down?

I don't know about that engine faillure batch you are talking.. I got a 1999 boxster with (120 000km) and it's running very well..

Just don't forget that the 1999 got a 2.5 engine instead of a 2.7 and that a too low milleage could hide something :)

good luck

The 2 big sources of engine failure I have heard of:

1) Sleeve Slip Failure - Only on early models which have some engine defects "repaired" (instead of reworked to print). I think 1997 (USA) is the only year you need to avoid for this

2) IMS (intermediate shaft) failure - ALL models up to and including todays


Sadly, this crap is a worry we all must deal with and just hope it never happens. Following subsequent revisions to the design of the engines (minor tweaks/revs) it is clear porsche knows of the defect and its possible affects, yet they make no real acknowledgement and provide on official relief. (Think about what mazda did for almost all the RX8s).

Makes me strongly consider never buying a Pcar again, but the RMR and the label is such a draw :mad:

FWIW, I would never buy a 1999 with 20k miles. That is too low - I would almost be more comfortable if it had 40K worry free miles. The 20k milage on a '99 isn't worth the premium at all

I can understand your trepidation. I guess all you can do is make sure you keep the oil and coolant clean.

BTW-If it were me, I would use Red Line oil. It can't hurt.

check out this article

describes the failures and this company even remanufactures to eliminate the problem. Too bad they are in England. A good read.

http://www.autofarm.co.uk/pdf/Total911_July06.pdf

and this one:

http://www.autofarm.co.uk/pdf/911PW_Apr06.pdf

Engine failure articles
 

Possibly the wrong spot for this but these articles describe the engine failures in good detail. A good read.

http://www.autofarm.co.uk/pdf/Total911_July06.pdf

http://www.autofarm.co.uk/pdf/911PW_Apr06.pdf

Great post saaber!! I only wish that company was in the states - if they were and I suffered an engine failure, I'd use it as an excuse to go with their 4.0 liter rebuild.

You know, this whole thing just floors me.

This is a Boxer engine, not very exotic nor complicated. They have been making the same fundamental design for what, 60 yrs?

How tough can it be to make it robust and somewhat easier to repair.

The Subaru guys seem to have figured it out.

Well actually bruce... the boxster M96 is a new engine for porsche..... watercooled! :cool:

Yes, I know. But if you look at the basics of the engine, hey, this is not rocket science.

If you have to make the block heavier to accomodate a tougher alloy, DO IT.

If you have to beef up the shafts and/or pistons, rods etc. DO IT.

We should not have to put up with this bad boy grenading whenever! :confused:

I think it's fairly simple to explain. They put their crap in the cheap cars to save money, knowing they'll sell based on their name.

Unfortunately so true.

On the other hand, it is semi surprising that no one in the states is rebuilding these motors yet. There are plenty of shops with the equipment necessary to do what Autofarm is doing.

The one question I do ask about the "Silsleeve" conversion, is cooling. By running a much thicker sleeve, they are effectively reducing cylinder cooling. I do love their solution for the IMS problem, however.

Patrick

Someone in the states IS doing this: http://www.lnengineering.com/boxster.html

I just found out today that a noise I heard at an autocross this past Sunday was due to intermediate shaft failure. It has 67,700 miles or so on it and I've owned it for six and a half weeks, or under 2000 miles. It's a '99. I've been a Porsche nut for nearly 20 years, finally got one, and am now regretting ever buying one. I should have grown a brain and bought the Honda instead. :mad:

I've been quoted $11k for a new factory 2.5 installed or $15k for a new factory 3.4 installed.

I don't have the dealer work on the car, so Porsche is not aware of the failure, and I'm sure they wouldn't care to know and wouldn't do anything about it if they did know. I'm just sorry to be an idiot German car lover. I may never own another Porsche.

My condolences. This situation is unacceptable in my mind.

1997 Boxster Blown Engine
 

For what it's worth..I purchased a 1997 model with 19k on it about 4 years ago and blew an engine at about 37k. I'm pretty sure it was the sleeve issue as opposed the shaft going bad. Anyway, thank God I purchased an extended warranty through the local porsche dealer (Tech Serve Tech 4 policy) for about $2.7k that pretty much covered everything on the car except the convertible top.

The extended warranty paid the roughly $15k for the new engine after their inspector came out to look at the engine a few times to make sure i was not flogging the hell out of it....or an accidental mechanical over-rev.

[B]My point is this: Do not even think about buying/owning any German car (i.e., BMW, Audi, VW or Porsche) unless it is under warranty. I have bought several of these cars in my lifetime and the extended warranty has always paid for itself many times over. Spend the extra money and get the warranty....you will sleep better at night knowing that if something goes wrong, it's going to cost you NO more than the $100 deductible and that's it. These warranties are also transferrable to a new owner when you go to sell it. The new owner can buy the car worry free. You may also cancel the warranty and the company will send you a pro-rated refund based on time and miles left.

Happy safe motoring to everyone who reads this.

MRC

I'm a firm NON-believer re extended warrantees, but this engine failure thing scares me and reviewing available warrantees may be worth my time. I believe in self-insuring for such things but with an '01 car, a replacement engine is over half the value of my car! I can't find the one that was refered to by the above member. More info please.

Bob

Anyone have any first hand knowledge of LN Engineering? Their prices for a rebuild (which should be better than factory, hypothetically) are certainly attractive.

Patrick

LN's prices ARE attractive. But read their warranty and disclaimer (link on the bottom of the page)

"The products sold by LN Engineering are designed primarily for off highway use. Check State and Federal laws and emission regulations. Not legal for sale or use on pollution controlled vehicles."

Wonder why that's the case?

Bob

The reason is stated there. These modified engines (pistons, timing and whatever else) may have different emissions outputs, and therefore, the manufacturer takes no responsibility for the vehicle passing an e-test.

I don't see that stated anywhere on their page. Did I miss something? If this is a rebuild, to the same specs, just using different materials why would emissions be affected? A rebuild with larger pistons, altered timing etc could possibly, probably, affect emissions but a straight rebuild? And not only do they not take responsibility for passing the test, they state that use in a pollution control car is illegal!!! Maybe I'm missing something.

Bob

Sorry about hijacking your thread.

What timing
 

My immaculate 2000 S with 33k engine blew on the San Mateo bridge last Tuesday. 500 miles after a major service. There were no issues with the car, no warning, just a plume of smoke and oil everywhere.

Slipped sleeve is the diagnosis. Looking at $15-17k to replace. Porsche of America jerked me around pretending to be sympathetic. Insisted I tow the car to a dealer (it was originally towed to a fine Porsche independent shop in San Carlos). The dealer confirmed the diagnosis, but Porsche summarily declined my request within minutes, to help with the repair.

The car is on Craigslist now, selling it as a roller.

Have come a long way this week. Had been a 20yr Porsche enthusiast, PCA member, owner of 3 911's, etc. Now I hate this slimey company and think these Boxsters are junk. Criminally expensive junk.

If you have one, assume the position and get someone to sell you a warranty. Otherwise, get your 986 on Craigslist as quick as you can. These cars are not worth the risk.

I was told there was talk of a class action suit on this forum. Did that get anywhere? If there was ever a case for one, this seems to be it.

As usual, reading these horror stories about our engines blowing freaked me out. So, I ran right out this morning and changed my oil and filter (just under my usual 5K change interval). 76K and counting.....

Ed

:eek:

These stories just depress me! :(

33k perfect car
 

2000 S. Had major service done 500mi ago, early July. No issues. Driving across San Mateo Bridge, no overheating (I looked), no warning lights, just the muted sound of my engine blowing up. Diagnosed as sleeve slip on #4.

Porsche wants $11k for motor, est $2k for install, + clutch and maybe cats (oil soaked during engine meltdown).

Car is now on craigslist, being sold as a roller.

Don't dream of owning one of these cars out of warranty....

So I'm wondering how many of you guys that have had the engine failure tracked your cars. Is the wear and tear of tracking the car what pushes it to the limits of it's design, i.e., if we drive our cars normally with the occasional "get on it" experience will we survive w/o a catastrophic failure?

Just curious.

This topic is so depressing it makes me want to sell my Boxster and I've only got 10,000 miles on it so I'm really worried that the low mileage cars are more prone to this issue.

-Steve

I guess much like everyone else... I've been following this thread.

After today's post of another engine failure, I felt compelled to review all the posts in this thread to date and provide a summary. In total, there are 6 reported engine failures, three of them 2.5L engines and three are 3.2L engines. Here's the details in the order in which they were posted:

Year Engine Miles Notes
1998 2.5L 65000 Slipped cylinder liner
2001 3.2L 78000 Slipped cylinder liner (noted track time)
2000 3.2L 26000 No exact cause given; oil in coolant
1999 2.5L 67000 Intermediate Shaft (IMS) failure
1997 2.5L 19000 Slipped cylinder sleeve
2000 3.2L 33000 Slipped cylinder sleeve

There's far too few data points here to draw any conclusions but I am suprised that the only car with IMS failure was a 1999 2.5L. Other than that, things seem total random without regard to miles or engine.

While it's sad and very depressing to read about engine failures on our cars (especially ones with so few miles), one must keep in mind that we haven't heard from the thousands of others with no problems at all. As is ALWAYS the case with these type of forums. One only hears about the problem children and not the A students. Like mine for instance. 58,000 miles and the only issues with it so far have been an ignition switch failure ($29 diy fix with an audi switch from the local dealer) and a short in the driver's seat heater (not fixed yet simply because it doesn't bother me and isn't causing any other problems). Otherwise its' been trouble free. No MAF issue, no top issues, no broken chain tensioners (oh wait.. that was the 911!!) nothing. Change the oil, brake pads, and various filters, get new tires occasionally and that's about it. And yes.. I take it to the track. (ok.. so I've probably jinxed myself)

It's truly sad and I sympathize with those who have had engine failures. Unfortunately, there's no way at all to determine the actual failure rate. We don't know if its .0005% or 5%. Of the thousands and thousands of Boxsters sold, how many owners post here and on the other forums? Not that many. And Porsche won't release any info about failures. Any "surveys" one might see on the net are suspect at best, and probably (certainly??) not statistically sound. They're interesting to read but, sadly once again, one can't draw any valid conclusioins from them. If only........................

Maybe we should start a thread about our UNbroken Boxsters.

Bob

Quote:

"I was told there was talk of a class action suit on this forum. Did that get anywhere? If there was ever a case for one, this seems to be it."

Posted by sfkjeld.

Yep, although it was a 911 involved. The news story was dated July 28, 2008, so it's probably gonna be a l o n g time before we get any meaningful outcome results. It may just result in some sort of settlement prior to going to trial. The results of that would be plenty interesting enough, though (unfortunately) often part of the settlement includes a stipulation that the terms of the settlement NOT be made public. That would, I suspect, more than likely happen here (Porsche being the likely party desirous of concealing any compromise it might make on the matter).

Here's the link:

http://www.northjersey.com/business/news/Porsches_blown_motor_spurs_suit.html

As of a few days ago, I've requested updates on the case...nothing so far. I'll post them as I get 'em.

That article refers to the cracked cylinder liner issue that was seen in the early 3.4L engines. If Porsche was forced to recall the cars, it wouldn't effect Boxsters.

Quote:

"That article refers to the cracked cylinder liner issue that was seen in the early 3.4L engines. If Porsche was forced to recall the cars, it wouldn't effect Boxsters."

Posted by blue2000s.

Yeah, sure, but it's similar issues. It sets a precedent, one that may be applicable in similar cases (like the Boxsters with RMS or IMS ailments). This is especially true if the case actually goes to trial and Porsche gets a judgment against them. That could be a real wake up call to them, though the likely appeals could drag on for years.

But, ya gotta start somewhere...

I think IMS failures are by far the most common catastrophic failures.

A quick search revealed these additional catastrophic failures of which most all are IMS failures (check to make sure none are duplicates):

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15479&page=3&pp=20&highlight=blow n

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14707&page=3&pp=20&highlight=warr anty+direct

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17427&highlight=warranty+direct

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14319&page=4&pp=20&highlight=blow n

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12391&page=2&pp=20&highlight=inte rmediate+shaft+failure
also on that post is another one 2003 Boxster with 33K so that is two there

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1523&highlight=blown

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957&highlight=blown

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11140&page=2&pp=20&highlight=inte rmediate+shaft+failure

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11737&page=2&pp=20&highlight=inte rmediate+shaft+failure
also an 01 at 75k was referenced on this thread, maybe check to see if this is an additional one or if you have already counted it.

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10269&page=3&pp=20&highlight=inte rmediate+shaft+failure

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9302&highlight=intermediate+shaft +failure

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9625&page=2&pp=20&highlight=inter mediate+shaft+failure

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139&page=2&pp=20&highlight=interm ediate+shaft+failure

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7055&highlight=intermediate+shaft +failure

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247&page=2&pp=20&highlight=inter mediate+shaft+failure

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5035&highlight=intermediate+shaft +failure

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4975&highlight=intermediate+shaft +failure

There is probably a lot more if someone took the time to search I would guess

If you want to be sick check here (brucelee please delete this reference if cross references to other forums are not allowed, thanks) http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/porsche/porsche_boxster/