I saw on the Mercedes site that so many there are used to high maintenance costs (e.g., $3k to replace iron brake rotors) many take a $5K repair in stride, and there is also the marque loyalty working. Hard core diy'ers are rare there. I sense many more Boxster owners aspire to diy. Perhaps due to the easier acquisition of the Boxster. And the Boxster has great attraction in looks, performance and (now ) used price. It is interesting to observe apparent lack of snobishness from the 911 set. Perhaps because of a common problem.

But the mystique of superior German product is certainly shaken by the Boxter, C63AMG , and others. Even the current emissions revelation shows that from most angles companies must simply pursue profitability. But the Porsche mystique of reliability won over decades really frustrates many who expect performance and long term reliability.

broken m96 engine
 

01 Boxster S 41000mi., pss9, headers, Sparko race seats, IMS and seal update, engine failure do to cracked head/ water in oil. Sold as project car. Bought later model mazda MX5.

Was at my mechanics shop on MOnday and watched a 2005 Boxster being towed away withe a IMS failure after only 28K miles etui sony xperia z5 compact etui sony z5 compact

Earlier in this thread a gentleman spoke about familiarity with the ball bearing causing the IMS problem. I was poking around and found a reliability site on ball bearing failures. Yikes. At the component level there are multiple sources of problems: Inadequate shaft surface finish, defective race grinding, ball separation defective, bad seals,on and on. These things seem fragile. Then there's installation...

The electric motor usage is the main source of these studies with 3 axis accelerometers providing vibration wave forms which are compared against expected results. In that industry the little sensors are standard products. Interaction of the ball bearing components can accelerate their own failure, harmonics etc, etc ( I am not an engineer).

So the gentleman who wondered why Porsche, why? I second. Along the trail of tears for this engine has there been any attempt to correlate sources of the bearings with failures? From the looks Porsche has been successful running cams right on aluminum where others have failed. Makes one wonder.

Had my new-to-me 2004 S in the shop for IMS, clutch, RMS, etc. Turns out, the engine must have failed while the first owner had it, which was the first 42,000 miles. The second owner had no records from that period when I bought the car Monday with 98K miles. He was not aware that the motor had been replaced in 2006. If the IMS fails in the 2006 motor, the engine has to be split open to replace it. So, I'll live with it.

BTW, the clutch plate was at about 50% wear and the throw-out bearing was shot. Otherwise, everything else about the car checked out fine.

Porous aluminum block and head castings are INCREDIBLY rare in pretty much every vehicle made since forever. And by incredibly rare, I mean so rare that a tech will not spot it unless they are looking for it after taking everything apart and using ultrasound and/or magnetic or flourescent testing.

If you had a porous casting, this problem would have been spotted a very long time ago. My guess is anything but a porous casting.

thanks for sharing details, will be helpful to green hand like me

Not a shortlived failure, but to me any such failure is short lived in a car like this, at least below 200k miles, especially if its a known weak point

2003 Boxster S, 105k miles
Tiptronic (so I never had the chance to address it at a reasonable cost as the trans has never ben out of the car)
Regularly serviced

Never tracked, owned it since it was 9 months old with 6k miles.

IMS failure (in the opinion of my shop, the engine hasn't been torn down)

Problem started with a horrendous clatter that I assume was the pistons meeitng the valves. Oil spewed out of the engine and onto the ground

Pissed at the class action settlement that Porsche agreed to (I'm sure the lawyers got paid handsomly) that allowed these cars to stay on the road and only be repaired after they failed within a short mileage window. Shameful

Happened a month ago, still deciding what course to take -- do I throw good money after bad?

Carlos

RPM vs IMS
 

Greetings from Downunder.

I have looked through the previous pages on this thread and read a number of forums related to IMS failures. But, I have not come across any posts which deal with the incidence of IMS failure vs the driving habits of the owners.

Is there any information on whether engines allowed to spin freely but, kept below say 4000 RPM are more or less prone to IMS failures than engines that are pushed hard?

I have owned 3 M96 cars. I still have two of them. Never experienced an engine failure on any of them. jake raby, flat 6 innovations,
Solved the IMS issue in a
Variety of ways culminating in his end all upgrade away from bearings. Visit his website where you can read anything and everything you would ever
Need to know.

It is possible to buy an 8k m96 car, Spend 4k on it and have a reliable Porsche for as ling as you want ti keep it. Or you can go the cheaper route and change to an upgraded bearing every time you need a clutch as a
Maintenance item. Either way the problem is easily resolved.


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Speculation is that spun hard once warm is better as it forces more oil, and the owners tend to more frequently change the oil.

Good oil, and no less than half the recommended interval.

Hi all,

I am also brand new to the forum. Two weeks ago I purchased an '04 Boxster S 550 Spyder 50th anniversary edition from a Porsche dealership for slightly less than $19000, 32k miles. Apparently there were only 1953 of these 550 Spyder 50th anniversary edition models manufactured, and only 500 were sold in the US. The car has obviously been immaculately maintained, looks fantastic and drives like a dream. The deal seemed almost too good to be true. With all things that seem too good to be true there's usually a catch, and after searching around on the internet I've discovered what that catch is.

From my research it seems the 2001-2005 Boxsters have the highest rate of IMS failure, and the rate of failure in the '04 50th anniversary edition Boxsters and 911s is exceptionally high. Basically it seems it's not a question of if the IMS failure will occur, but when. Basically this car is a ticking time bomb that could blow up at any time. I was a tad irked at the dealership's failure to disclose the known manufacturing defect in these engines to me at the time of purchase, but in hindsight not surprised.

So after some deliberation, I've elected to have the replacement LN bearings installed, and while they are doing the replacement the RMS seal will be replaced and the oil changed. Total cost of doing this is $2500, which seems a worthwhile investment to me. The car is back at the dealership now as I write this having this work done. I'm also in the process of purchasing a 5 year extended warranty on the power train, at a total cost of $3400.

I have to say that it's really a shame to find out that such a beautiful car that's such a blast to drive, made by such a premier brand name as Porsche, has such a disastrous design flaw and checkered history. It's been even more dismaying to read about Porsche's callous response to those affected by the catastrophic failure of these engines out of warranty. Certainly has negatively affected my opinion of the brand name. Hopefully, after the bearing replacement I'll be able to enjoy driving the car worry free for years to come, but this will always stay in the back of my mind. As they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Welcome to the club Ed.

I also have a '04 BSSE and was in the same exact position as you. You are doing the right thing. I had my RMS, IMS, and AOS replaced a little over a month ago with 53k miles on the car.

I paid the same for my car as you. The question is; what is our car worth now with this work done? I've seen some estimates as high as $25k for a primo maintained BSSE.

Hello and thanks, algiorda. That's an interesting question, it does seem like installing the replacement bearings and registering the installation with LN should increase the value of the vehicle to some degree, since the IMS flaw is the reason these vehicles depreciated so much to begin with. By how much it increases the value I'm not sure, but considering that these '04 BSSE's are rare and any limited edition Porsche model should in theory be collectible and sought after, I would have to think your estimate is probably accurate. Maybe even conservative, since there's probably a good deal fewer of these remaining that are still in good condition and have intact original engines than there were ten years ago.

I've seen quite a few Mid-twenties prices for the BSSE. I've also seen some 2004's which claim they are Special Editions, but they are Black body, black interior. I thought the BSSE only came in GT Metallic?

https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/25973290

https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/190326 ??? is this a BSSE?

That's correct, the BSSE only came in GT silver. So I'm highly doubtful that the bottom one is a BSSE. Plus the wheels are wrong, the wheels on BSSE's should be seal grey. The top one looks like it probably is one. The only way to really be certain is to look for the commemorative BSSE batwing plate on the center console with the production number on it. If it doesn't have one of those, it's not a BSSE.

Hate to see all these engines go down. I had a boxer with only 79k on it that wen't down on me. Pissed me off because I just got the windows tinted on it.

Hi Ed
 

Hi Ed,

Welcome from another fellow 550 Anniversary owner! If you would like, be sure give us some info and a pic or two in our 550 Anniversary thread:

http://986forum.com/forums/show-tell-gallery/66184-official-2004-boxster-s-550-anniversary-edition-thread.html

Looking forward to hearing more from you in the forums. Enjoy your new ride :cheers:

Full circle
 

Ten years ago, my 2000 S w/33k mi. blew up on the San Mateo Bridge, south of San Francisco. Immaculate car that I purchased from a retired banker in Phoenix. Perfectly maintained. I had it towed to Sonne Porsche in Marin for evaluation and what seemed my best hope to get some help from Porsche in its repair. Shop concluded an IMS failure. There was no repair or reconditioned motor option. Just a $15k new motor replacement. I had several calls with Porsche as they supposedly considered my case. After a week, Porsche 'was sorry to say' I was SOL. Plus a $500 tow and labor charge.

I was livid with Porsche. I had owned 3 911s, PCA member for 15 years. Nothing. Not a single part, not $ in labor, not even covering my tow or labor to determine the IMS failure. Total bastards. I sold the car as a roller for $9k after paying $21k 6 months earlier.

Spin ahead 10 years. I rode in a friends Boxster a few months ago. Forgot about that sound and feel. Next thing you now, I am perusing Craigslist. Next thing you know, I bought a very pretty 2000 base car in need of a clutch. Cheap. Brought it to a Porsche shop for a clutch, LN bearing and oil separator. Really love the little car. Motor sounds great and the rest is pretty tight for its age. Even have a hardtop. My family and friends think I am a full on idiot. Can't argue.http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1505572949.jpg

Dream on, Ed. :eek:

A non IMS bad engine.
 

I'm starting the process of replacing the engine in my 01 Boxster base. Replacing the 2.7 with another 2.7 from the same era.

My current engine is severely wounded because of the previous owner putting off repairs and maintenance and severely overheating the engine. It leaks oil and smokes. I got mine for cheap $3300, but it had a plethora of problems that slowly I've been correcting. The engine I'm putting in is a 2000, lately in a 2002. It's one of those engines that Porsche rebuilt with a beefed up IMS, and I've replaced the RMS and the front crankseal. About 60K on the engine since the rebuild. I've also done the water pump. And it will be getting headers and a new rear exhaust which will make it a true dual ex. system. And maybe a spin on filter adapter. Amazing all the spendy goodies you can throw at these engines.

It's a project car, it needs new struts and the cv joints need to be cleaned, repacked and new boots installed. But it has good interior, a relatively new top, and a paint job.

https://s8.postimg.org/puqtz8gbl/redshop.jpg

175,000 miles on my 99 986. Good luck with your project mine needs a paint job looking for a place in the Orlando area that’s good and cheap I’m ok with slow


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I wanted to say this to the engineers and to the consumers, us. The Boxster is a fun car to drive, and as of right now, one of the best bang per buck cars you can buy for the fun. One with a ripped rear window will sell as low as 5k, and if the IMS bearing doesnt go, awesome.

The IMS bearing if you ask me never should have been designed from conception. My thoughts on the new ferrari transmissions were the same, a bad idea from the get go. Ferrari didn't wanna raise the engine to alter the cneter of mass so they have an engine with a transmission on the rear AND FRONT of it, the front one only working with 4 gears. Sounds crazy, right? And as the 3 crazy guys on top gear proved on less-than-asphalt, had major problems with its design.

So thus is the IMS bearing. At its core, its a shaft located under the crankshaft, and thus from designing the engine, shoving the crankshaft UP, ie higher center of gravity. from 'racecar' perspective, this is thus bad. What gets me is that, annoying as it is, Ford's 4.0L v6 is considered a pain because its got both a front and rear timing chain. but it works. I see no reason why Porsche didn't put a gear on the end of the crankshaft and use that to run the chain. The IMS is a part inside the engine that didn't need to be there. Its not like say a Honda f-series/k-series balance shaft, and those are used on SOME models, not all, and are removed by any track racer at the beginning of the engine-modification process. In my opinion, a shaft below the crankshaft was a bad idea conceptually. I'm sure this was discussed but I wanted to state my opinion as a Boxster lover, a guy who loves to tinker, a master mechanic, a speeder and a cruiser.

I would also attack Porsche's idea behind the integration of the valve cover and cam caps into one piece as a dumb idea, questioning how much money they saved in a gasket and additional several bolts. Granted we let this one go because Porsche's loose oil, they just always have, whether its on the floor or out the tailpipe, tis a way of life. but an oil leak can be forgiven, theres not a moment where its one drop too low and immediatly can blow your engine up (okay yes there is but there's a dipstick.)

Upon learning about this bearing, I did what others do. Freaked out and started driving while keeping the RPM above 2500 whenever possible. If I was cruising at 45mph in 5th, my mind would say "oh, a 986 engine" and id downshift to 4th. Gotta keep the oil spitting onto the bearing seal so it doesn't dry out. And this becomes commonplace. And the other side of my mind says...would it have been so hard to run a single chain, or two overlapping ones, or a rear chain off a crank cog, or a big fat roller bearing lubed by engine oil, or a timing belt, gears, freakin pushrods, there are a million other ways and so many more cars NOT doing this and they're so much more reliable. It woulda been more conventional, cheaper, lighter, the list goes on and I wanna talk to the engineer who said this was a smarter idea than any other technology because...we can sell more aftermarket engines? Whatever the reason, mister engineer, stop making engines.

Also for a 2.5L this engine is really heavy. Rant over and out.

These cars just get ya that way don’t they 😀

Pages missing !! 404

I agree, I’d be getting a 2nd opinion on your problem!

I hope he did..... three years ago when he wrote that.....

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So how much would one be looking at spending if they had a trashed engine and want to replace it. Just a rough idea of what it would cost to have a shop do it (engine + labor) .....$6M, $7M, $8M, $9M, etc.............??

Hard say, since the "while you're in there" costs vary widely.

In my case, I replaced at least:

AOS
Coolant tank
IMSB
RMS
Flywheel
Clutch
Pilot bearing
Pressure plate
Throw out bearing
Several hoses
Coil packs, tubes, and spark plugs
Several hoses
Power steering fluid
Water pump
Coolant
Oil and filter
Serpentine belt

Paul's right, there's too many "while you're in there".

I suspect it'd look something like this:

"gulp. (holding breath)"
"brace yourself"
"try not to cry out... don't fight it"
"listen to the pretty banjo-music"




for reals.
If you find an indy shop to replace the motor with a used motor, it'll be more like:
"you really should replace the..."
"no, just put it in"
"but we won't warranty it unless we ..."
"i don't care, just put it in the way it is..."
"ok, fine. here's the math: $4,000 for a used motor with 87k miles on it. $500 in shop supplies, oil, filters, etc. $1850 in labor, for a total of $6350"
"But I only paid $6500 for the car!"
"Then I suggest you find another one."



Seriously; paying someone else to work on a 20-yr-old Porsche that's worth under $10k is really impossible math. It doesn't work.
If you can DIY, I just swapped my motor out for basically free (the cost of my time aside).
To me, this car doesn't make sense to a non-DIY-er.

YMMV

So, I gather the answer is either DIY or buy another Boxster, if that's the car I want....and in that case, I'd have to research how best to dispose of the trashed engine car. I suppose there are people who will buy it as is.

(I hope my car doesn't read this....it would be upset to learn I was prematurely talking about its demise....lol)

After replacing my engine 4 times, I can confidently say that you can have a shop replace a 2.5L engine for less than $4,000. You just have to be a careful buyer.

2.5L engines with 90K miles can be purchased on eBay for $2500 or less. I have paid $1,850, $2,250, and $2,475 for my replacements.

I just checked eBay and there is a 91K mile 2.5L engine listed for $2200 + $250 shipping. You can easily get this for $2,250 with shipping.

Plan on $500 for consumables/parts and $1250 to swap the engines. For an experienced shop that knows what they're doing, its an 8-10 hour job and should be done in 2-3 days. When I had my last engine swapped in Nov, 2018, my local shop had the old engine completely removed in about 2 hrs!

If you want to keep the car, $4K is pretty cheap to extend the life of your existing Boxster for another 75,000-100,000 miles.

If you want to sell the car, putting $4K into a what is now a $3K car (because of the failed engine) will be pretty much break even.

Of course, if you can DIY the engine swap, then you're that much further ahead.

Do it nice or do it twice! :dance:

My 2000 986S developed a crack in 4-6 side head (drivers side) at 69k. The car never overheated, so I was somewhat perplexed that this could happen. Most likely a casting flaw which took it's time to show itself. I decided to go ahead and do the repair, which involved finding a used head and having it reconditioned, as well as having the coolant system flushed and cleaned. All told it came to about $8,500. Fingers crossed the other side is good.

$8500??!!! For what? For what?