Hello All. I am new to this forum, in fact new to any forum. I purchased my first Porsche 4 years ago. It is a used 03 Boxster that I didn't purchase from a Porsche dealer. I have greatly enjoyed it and wish I had the time and space to work on it myself. I have always taken it to the dealer for service/repair and have kept up the maintenance. My question is about this IMS bearing failure that I have been reading about. Will the shop be able to tell if the IMS is wearing out. Do they check that kind of thing when I have the oil changed? I have had the clutch replaced, the RMS replaced and the 75K service done and so far no one has said anything about the IMS to me at the dealer. Any response is greatly appreciated and forgive me if I am posting in the wrong place. I'll get better. Thanks

The dealer is never going to tell you about the IMS issue (see the lawsuit against Porsche on the issue). The only real way to check on it is to remove it. Checking the oil filter for metal shavings is another way but at that point you may have already done some damage. The best time to have checked/replaced it was when you replaced the clutch and RMS. Check out the search function on this forum and you will find why more information/discussion on the topic then you may care for plus you will learn who Jake Raby is. Welcome to the forum. You will find a lot of information and a great community that is super willing to help with information.

Hello there everyone!

I am a newbie to the site and as a Porsche 986 owner. I have a 98 w 69K. Bought it for 9K it is is immaculate inside and out, feel very blessed. As my luck, Check Engine Light came on the day after I bought it which is actually great timing. I panicked a bit because of all the issues I kept reading about IMS and other failures. So, I consulted with many on where to take my Boxster and sure enough found a reputable shop ready to take my money as a result. They were very helpful and very informative, made me feel like they would take care of me.

They gave me a break on total cost to inspect the vehicle and gave me a print out of what is wrong. I have to replace the water pump and some other items plus they will replace the serpentine belt at that time which is good I'd wager. Total cost of all seven items to be worked on? $2.2K.

What I want to ask is whether or not I should just replace the IMS at the time I do that work? Given what I have seen so far in this thread, it looks like it would cost less do it at that time because of the work being done for the water pump? Is that correct or does it matter? In addition, is there anything else I should do at this mileage threshold?

I am following ALL the positive advice I find on the forum like registering with Porsche for example. I want to baby Heidi (Yea, I christened her). She deserves it so I'm doing all the work plus an oil change. In July, new meats, too.

I still can't believe I'm a Porsche owner, really. She's just so wonderful to drive even though I'm am babying her till the end of the month. Once she comes back, we are driving up HWY 1 on the California Coast. :)

Thanks in advance for sharing your rolodex of information. I look forward to browsing through more of the forum. Peace.

Here she is BTW:
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...ps20f335b6.jpg

Have you checked out the class action settlement located at this link? FAQs | IMS Porsche Settlement You'll need to plug in your VIN. Probably would not be much $ for you if you are eligible, but anything is better than nothing.

Fine looking car. For less than $12K you appear to have gotten a nice car.

You have a dual row IMSB bearing which has a failure rate of less zthan 1%, so you have a decision to make, replace it now to make sure you do not fall victim to a very small chance of failure or wait to replace it when the clutch goes, one even not to replace it when you replace the clutch.

My car has a dual row bearing and I'm not doing anything until I replace the clutch.

Looks immaculate !

Newbie with a remanufactured engine
 

I am a new owner of a 2003 Boxster with 49000 on the clock. Based on the service book a new engine was installed after 22000 miles in October 2005. After some research it looks like it has a Porsche reman. Engine number is M96/23AT65469 where I believe AT indicates remanufactured and the 4 indicates 2004. Looks like 69 is the serial # so I don't know if that means the 69th reman built of that series?
I have not seen many postings on second engines biting the big one so I am wondering if by 2004 Porsche was doing anything different with a now obvious problem or were they just throwing engines in the cars to satisfy the customer. Would the RMS be much better by 2004?
Like everybody else I am wondering what to do. For what you can buy these for today its not terrible to put some more money in for the IMS but I don't believe it needs a clutch or RMS yet. I guess I am lucky its already been done once which hopefully makes my odds a littler better.
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Beautiful car, congrats and welcome to the forum! My understanding is that you would be subject to the same chances of failure. I have not seen anything as to a different bearing being used, in fact engines built after 2004 are still subject to failure. I believe it is 2009 when you no longer have to worry. Driving the car like it is meant to be driven along with oil changes every 5000 miles or at least once per year will go a long way towards keeping your bearing healthy. But then there are no guarantees in life. Me personally, I would not worry about it until it is clutch time. That is my plan and my car currently has 74K miles on it. I also send an oil sample off to Blackstone Labs for piece of mind, check my filter for shavings and have a magnetic drain plug. The LN spin on oil filter adapter is next on my list with my next oil change. So far, so good!

Just to update everyone, I replaced this motor with a used one in 2011 and recently sold the failed motor to Jake with a request for a failure analysis. Today I received word that it was a stretched timing chain which I assume must have been the chain between the crank and IMS, since valves were bent on both heads.

From page 8 of this thread:

Best analysis of the IMS problem I have found which might account for why they fail early or after many miles:

IMS thoughts from Mikes Specialty Automotive:

Ironically, although my background is in a different industry, I had 35 years' experience with the same precision bearing that Porsche uses in their cars. I found the failure rate to be very similar both in my former industry as it is in Porche's.

Three things caused the bearings to fail:

1. Bad installation during the manufacturing of the product. I have a feeling that engines that were built outside of Germany are sub-standard. Bearings that might have been damaged during installation would have accounted for the early engine failures of 10,000 miles.

2. Breakdown of the seals that lead to contamination of the lifetime grease. At this point, it only a matter of time before you have chunks of your IMS bearing swimming in the oil.

3. Over-stress of the bearing wherein an over-rev from a bad downshift causes huge stress on all engine components of your Porsche. Automatics don't have miss-shifts, and I think that this is why you see less IMS failures in this type of car.

What to do to protect your Porsche Boxster:
In my case, I will change the bearing on my Porsche Boxster every 40,000 miles with a new Intermediate Shaft Bearing (IMS). This is not crazy, because it is a high end sports car. Ferrari's of the same year have their timing belts changed every 30,000 miles at a cost of about $12,000.00.

-----------
Hello, in response to your comments above: I recently purchased a 2002 Boxster from a Rover dealer in NJ. looks & ran great, 38k, two owner car. car was traded in & received major service for oil seal leak, new clutch, etc from sister Porsche dealer. have copy of $4200 service invoice. important point in decision to buy this car.

6 weeks later, catastrophic engine failure. IMS failure! I have driven many cars totaling almost 2 million miles & have never experienced an engine failure.

fortunately, the dealer included a used car warranty at the time of purchase, so the repair/engine replacement was covered. (fyi - re-manufactured engine was supplied by Vertex in Miami, FL. includes one year warranty from time of purchase, 11 months to me by the time I got the car back).

one week after I got the car back, I needed to return to have the headlight switch repaired/replaced, also covered. so far I have spent $350 on repairs for one remote replacement (key).

both a major failure and incredible luck that it happened under warranty, from a terrific dealer; Princeton Rover. they treated me VERY well. cannot imagine facing the cost of an engine replacement.

I will keep the car for now, but it will probably be both my first & last Porsche.


good to luck to all readers. will2002

Feedback on IMS
 

good evening all , just thought to share with you my experience and provide some feedback , Boxster 2002 2.7 single row , 60k miles (95k km) I'm the third owner but the first doesn't count much as he only had the car for 3k km . Oil leak evident , no debris in filter . RMS dry , IMS leaking , I replaced it with an LN part , the removed bearing was in good shape - apart from the fact that it was leaking - beginning of the countdown I guess , The previous owner is a friend ,he had always maintained the car and regularly changed the oil , probably the reason the bearing was in good shape ??? I also changed the clutch and the coolant tank . Very very happy and glad I did the job . Thanks Steve for advice :dance:

Good to hear....
Here's hoping you have many, many trouble free km from your car now you have bitten the bullet.

I think the whole IMS thing is over stressed and not necessarily a problem most people need to worry about. Unofficial figures quote less than 10% incidence overall across many years and we all know there are no 'official' figures. A lot of scare mongering is going on here especially from companies with a vested interest.

I have just purchased an immaculate 43000 mile 2001 with a full service history. I purchased it privately so no warranty! The first thing i had done was IMS, clutch and water pump. I am very glad I did. I have just opened up the old IMS and it seems perfect BUT is full of oil not grease! In my view these bearings are not made to run on oil so it is only a matter of time before it starts to fail.
I would not have been comfortable just driving it around until I needed a clutch, now I don't need to worry for the next 60,000 miles.
I think we need to consider IMS a service item and not just hope that it's going to be ok.
If you want cheap worry free motoring go buy a Toyota not a Porsche!

So a Pelican link sent me here. I had put my whole story behind me. I bought a 2000 2.7 new in April of 2000. Four years and 22k miles later I had the IMS failure. Total engine writeoff. I spent a bunch of money (~$6000) out of pocket to replace the engine, no warranty help. Now just today I learn of the class action suit, but I don't qualify! Why? Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks,
Steve
Never again Porsche

I'm dreaming to buy porsche before but after reading some of reviews. I need to rethink though I'm determined to have one.

You're coming here to see if you want a Porsche? You do know that forums like these are breeding grounds for complaints and concerns, right? People come here to get help with challenges (Which all 10 year old or more cars need).
What you need to know: Find a good one. A thorough PPI will help with that. Budget 2K a year for maintenance. These are older cars and need some love. They are one of the best driving machines you will ever experience. Then go to the link below:
2002 Porsche Boxster Convertible Review | Edmunds.com (change out 2002 for model year you are interested in).

hello there .i am new in this forums..so please share a new experience with me

Need help
 

Hallo Iam here I need some help about my site,,
and How I get verification about Paypal,?? ;)

Ah but there are official figures that Porsche admitted to in settling a lawsuit. The single row bearing ('00-'04.5) was the subject of the lawsuit and the admitted figure was ~1% per car year.

May not be a big thing unless you have to scrap your car, buy a new engine or pay to have the engine completely rebuilt. My two were never a problem, but, if it is yours that does, . . .

Plus the widespread knowledge of this issue has savaged the value of the cars. Everyone who has sold has felt the pain.

How much did this cost you, parts and labor, if you don't mind me asking?
Also, any other service or maintenance. Needed since? I'm looking at getting one soon and want to know a good estimate for the IMS replacement cost.

About $3400 out the door. They also pressure checked the AOS and gave the car an overall check up.

Hi all
Bought my 2003 3.2S in Canberra, Australia last August. Since reading about the IMS vulnerability and asking around, I felt like I was playing Russian Roulette every time I went for a drive (car has done ~87,000 km).
Had the IMS fixed and service with fresh consumables a couple of weeks ago by a local Porsche specialist. The price, including another oil and filter change in a thousand km, was $AU 2,600. I suspect I was done some favours. Now I feel completely confident - well worth the investment!

Simon, that sounds like a bargain - I paid over $4,000 back in 2010 to have the LN dual row bearing installed and clutch replaced.
I'm assuming your clutch was OK and left as is - what make / type of single row bearing was installed in your car?

FYI - I just got payment from the IMS lawsuit with Porsche. Took forever, but at least I got some of my out-of pocket back from my IMS failure a few years back.

Sorry Steve, can't tell you any details. The humungeous size of my ignorance of these matters meant that I just went with Chris, the proprieter's recommendation. My Boxster is a tiptronic - a wise option for an old fart with dodgy hips, even though it promotes laziness and results in less precision.

I'll ask Chris about the replacement IMS and post his answer. The aftermarket audio amplifier spat the dummy and needed replacing this week; it never ends, does it?

Mine just failed- 2003 Boxster Base- IMS/RMS done in 2012, however i guess that wasn't good enough- Yesterday it suffered a CamShaft/Lifter Failure- engine is toast.

I'm a total Porschaphile & have owned 4 911's, my DD is a 997S, the boxster i bought to drive for a couple of months and resell...i'm 2nd owner- what a shame- but i must say these cars are Pieces of GARBAGE!

The piece of cam cover was ejected after the lifter failed and was shot through the cam cover"

98 5spd, very very dead engine....
 

dropped the valve keepers, shattered the piston, cracked the liner...and the spark plug stripped out trying to remove it.
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anyone got a good 2.5 long block for sale?

2000 Boxster S with 58,000 dealership maintained miles at factory recommended service intervals.

Adult owned and never raced.

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Suddenly a great motor swap candidate. *Always look on the bright side.

Almost lost the upper chain guides
 

Well, I've had my 2000 s model for about 18 months, 107000 miles and no problems. Took her in for a check engine light last month (gas cap leak). Shop found several leaks and worn boots, so I asked for recommendations; IMS, clutch, and hoses, also plugs and other things. The sticker shock really hurt, but jumped in for the security.
During the IMS replacement, a few chips of plastic were noticed in the oil. The only plastic inside the engine were the upper chain guides, so the valve covers were pulled. One of the guides came out in two pieces and there was significant wear on the other, Shop was very happy that they had caught the problem before any severe damage to the engine, me too.
Working to pay off the bill ( 6500), but a happy camper.:)

valve guide sliding in head on 2000 S 3.2 S
 

I have a 2000 986 S. 43,000 flawless miles.
Had IMS/clutch proactively installed 50 miles ago at the Porsche dealer. Found no signs of old bearing failing.
50 miles later, check engine light, poor performance. Tapping/knock from engine as well. Flat bed in to dealer.
Found one of the cylinders flooded w/ fuel. At first, they thought a mass flow sensor. Nope. Dropped engine, pulled head.
2 of the 3 valve guides are sliding (can push out of cylinder by hand). Valve seat came off.
Car has never overheated or been abused.

Anyone ever hear of this happening? Nobody can figure out why???? Was there a flaw in the machining process, so sloppy fit for the valve guides?? Would it be this way on the other side?
And if so, did they find the same problem on the other cylinder head?
I am deciding if i need to have the other cylinder head pulled, dismantled and inspected while the engine is out of the car. Anothe $2000.00, so an important question.

My dealer says they have heard of this, but never seen one. I checked with an idependent Porsche mechanic. Same answer. I checked with the largest Porsche dealer in the country. Same answer. Is my car that unique?

Hi

Just had engine go, cracked head 60000 3.2S, engine now rebuilt new head, AOS, RMS, IMS, clutch, water pump etc. Back again and recent 1600 mile round trip to lake Garda.

Was it economically viable, NO, am I glad I rebuilt and still have it, oh YES!

High IMSB Retrofit costs?
 

Hi All.
Am brand new to forum.
I recently took my 986-S model (2002) for its 30k service and my technician (retired Porsche Dealer mechanic from NY area) found some metal shavings (some, not a lot) along with one small bit of plastic and one small bit of metal in the oil (dropped lower sump pan).
I have/had read extensively on IMSB issues (here and elsewhere) and expected this at some point, but when I called the nearest dealer for a quotation, I was surprised to find they actually quoted a higher price for the LN Engineering retrofit than for a retrofit with authentic Porsche parts. Moreover, the warranty for LN is only 30-days (assuming it passes the pre-approval process), while Porsche offers 2-years and unlimited mileage. This just seemed odd to me, although a pleasant surprise. I see posts from Jack Raby, etc. everywhere, and numerous posts and links to Pelican Parts, Flat6innovations, etc., but almost nothing from anyone who has had a Porsche Authorized Dealer perform the work. Just curious if anyone has any thoughts/comments/information to share? Am I missing anything, or is this actually likely to be as good a deal as it sounds?
My local technician said everything else on my S-model looked beautiful (it's had regular oil changes every 3-4k miles since new, about once a year), and I wouldn't have known anything otherwise without his expertise (purrs like a kitten, runs like a beast), so I'm inclined to continue as planned, but just wanted to double-check my thinking, having seen nothing about Dealer servicing this item.
Thanks all,
- Dr. P
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Was at my mechanics shop on MOnday and watched a 2005 Boxster being towed away withe a IMS failure after only 28K miles. We just bought a 40K mile junk Boxster S with good engine and transmission to put into a 2000 S with a blown IMS failure engine. and we did the IMS bearing during the swap. Cost was $3800 for bearing, clutch and remove good engine and transmission from donor car and replace into the 2000.

We chose the LN Engineering ceramic bearing. If you don't do a proactive IMS replacement, make sure you change oil often and cut open the oil filter and look for Metal and plastic at each oil change.

Your instincts are correct because the only IMSB available from Porsche is the last design that requires complete disassembly of the engine to install, due to it's larger diameter. LN engineering offeres 3 different retrofits for your 2002 engine all of which are superior to the Porsche OE IMSB. You should read LNs website for accurate info & post in general discussions thread for more feedback.

My two M96 engine issues
 

First one 996 C2 cylinder no.4 ate its self. PO never took care of it (oil changes) not the cars fault 142500 miles. [ATTACH][ATTACH]Attachment 19858[/ATTACH][/ATTACH] Engine was parted out and new factory rebuild put in.

Second one 98 Box with C2 3,4 motor (motor 67000 miles) Variocam chain pads failed. Ha no engine damage, replaced valve cover, two cams, and variocam solenoid with cam chain. She runs strong (scary car). Never had IMS or RMS issues my third Porsche with M96 motor. Attachment 19859

Really
 

I hope I do not get kicked of the Forum for what I am about to say, but here goes. There is a lot of ********************ing in this post, this will be the last Porsche for me , how can they do this bla bla bla bla. The fricken cars are older that 10 years some with high miles some with dodgy service history and some were guys work on there own. Stop saying the brand or car is bad and unreliable. Look at my post below and I am not ********************ing about my failures. They are awesome cars and need maintenance go figure, nothing last forever. Its a bearing replace the thing its $750 DIY-$1800 for shop to do. Just have it done a new engine is $12000-$18000. Do you guys think a Honda S2000 BS I had two and one dropped a valve and the other one ran bearings on a track day (oil was on the full mark). Other failures are related to poor maintenance, bad driving habits, and about 5% bad design that Porsche did address. I drove a 996 last night with 298000 miles same engine, new IMS and RMS put in at 230000 miles, what about those cars. Yes its a Porsche built to a budget but go to your car and look at the quality and the engineering that is build into the car. You have a Porsche for Miata money that performs and handles like no ones busyness. Thank you spoke my mind. And drive the wheels of them that's what they are designed for.

I don't own a Boxster, but am considering an older one, expecting to overhaul/mod the engine. I have read many of the posts and also seen a youtube hosted by a bearded uncle type who assumed the know-all, final say posture (good watch).His summary (if I got it right) is that the IMS bearing failure (early/late...I don't know) arises from corrosion (my words). Mechanism: oil collects in the shaft tube and cannot exit. It becomes "rancid" (his words .I think)and becomes corrosive. The seals fail and the ?acidic? goop attacks the balls and races. The bearing wobbles and fatique sets in on the shaft. The fix...pressurized oil lines under gallery pressure constantly clean and lubricate the new bearing. Problem solved. I write this in my words because I don't think I saw this explanation before. So his statement is that although grease is the normal lubricant for ball and rollers, engine oil is the fix for the replacement bearings?

Next, Although the engine shops show broken parts (like the crank above) they do not volunteer non destructive test findings (magnaflux, zyglo etc) to explain. Finally for the person above asking about valve guide slippage. IMO this can be due to incorrect press fit tolerances (guide too small, guide hole too big) or to overheated aluminum head ,or improper installation. Out around 350F aluminum creeps (gets soft)and cannot hold onto guides and seats.

Hope this evokes more info. I know it's out there. These threads are very much like the ones on another site. Mercedes M 156 V8 (many models, but especially C63 AMG) where headbolts break. Those engines are$42K and Mercedes' warranty and mea culpa position is the same as Porsche. The owners there have the same nightmares and angst. Unlike the Boxster engines, most M 156's can be repaired , range $5K - $15K.

All I know is that Porsche produced an inferior product with the Boxster S through the years in question with that IMS and its failure rate. I had a 2004 Boxster S with only 28,500 miles on it in mint condition, properly maintained at a Porsche dealership , and I still suffered that failure and was told that although senior management reviewed my case their final determination was "too f***ing bad". Needless to say I don't see where they deserve the kind of loyalty that they command since it obviously does not exist on their end.