Shortlived Boxster engines survey

[ghha]

1999 Boxster, 45k miles, engine blew due to cylinder liner slip. Out of warranty (we are 3rd owner, bought with 15k on clock (didn't even have 1st service done!).

I wrote a heart-wrenching letter to Porsche Customer Care - they settled for a 60/40 split, so we paid $4k for a new engine, with a 2 year warranty and fitted free. New engine in a car with 45k miles.......Score!

I can let fellow sufferers have a copy of the letter, if needed. Can't guarantee you will get same result as each case is treated individually - that's why letter is free!

ghha

[Bobiam]

Originally Posted by ghha

1999 Boxster, 45k miles, engine blew due to cylinder liner slip. Out of warranty (we are 3rd owner, bought with 15k on clock (didn't even have 1st service done!).

I wrote a heart-wrenching letter to Porsche Customer Care - they settled for a 60/40 split, so we paid $4k for a new engine, with a 2 year warranty and fitted free. New engine in a car with 45k miles.......Score!

I can let fellow sufferers have a copy of the letter, if needed. Can't guarantee you will get same result as each case is treated individually - that's why letter is free!

ghha

EXCELLENT information. Thank you. A 9 yr old car with only 45K is a good example of a well cared for car (I assume that you do not race it) that went bad and your skills with writing reaped a fair reward. Now it's a keeper. Good luck and thanks again.
How long ago did this all happen???

[ghha]

18 months ago - had no problems since touch wood. I was very non-confrontational in my approach (after all, I had everything to gain and they had absolutely no obligation to me) and basically leaned on their desire to preserve their reputation....my wife wanted to kick butt but I persuaded her to let the letter do its work. I was told that my patient approach was what won them over.....unusual for me, as I am the proverbial bull in the china shop...

[johnsimion]

Take a look at Consumer Reports guide, "Best and Worst of 2009 Cars", now on newstands. They rate reliability of cars in numerous categories based on owner surveys of their membership. If they don't receive enough surveys, they simply won't give a rating. Their major engine repairs category is the one that would apply if there was a blown engine. The Boxster has ratings for almost all years from 1999 to 2008. It is rated "Much Better Than Average" reliability for major engine repairs for 1999 and 2001, and "Better Than Average" for 2000. I forgot the other years' ratings but none were worse than average. Overall the Boxster is rated as highly reliable across all categories in all years.

I do think that if the readers of Consumers Reports were having a statistically significant problem with blown engines, the magazine would be raising a huge outcry about it.

If I understand things right, there have been something like 200,000 Boxsters produced. If 3% of them had a blown engine, that would be 6000 blown engines. It seems like there are a lot of reports of blown engines in these pages and in other forums -- but nothing remotely approaching even a couple of hundred.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that there are 200 reports of blown engines on the various forums here and elsewhere (which is probably an exaggeration). Let's also assume that that number represents only 10% of the actual number of blown engines (which is also an exaggeration, because most likely anyone who has a Boxster is an enthusiast who reads these forums and will raise h3ll about it). Nevertheless, using those assumptions we can hazard a guess that there have been no more than about 2000 blown engines. That figure would then represent about 1% of the total production.

Most of us would be prepared to accept a 99% reliable car that is rated "Much Better Than Average" in the Major Engine category from Consumer Reports.

God, I hope I'm right . . .

[Bobiam]

Originally Posted by johnsimion

Take a look at Consumer Reports guide, "Best and Worst of 2009 Cars", now on newstands. They rate reliability of cars in numerous categories based on owner surveys of their membership. If they don't receive enough surveys, they simply won't give a rating. Their major engine repairs category is the one that would apply if there was a blown engine. The Boxster has ratings for almost all years from 1999 to 2008. It is rated "Much Better Than Average" reliability for major engine repairs for 1999 and 2001, and "Better Than Average" for 2000. I forgot the other years' ratings but none were worse than average. Overall the Boxster is rated as highly reliable across all categories in all years.

I do think that if the readers of Consumers Reports were having a statistically significant problem with blown engines, the magazine would be raising a huge outcry about it.

If I understand things right, there have been something like 200,000 Boxsters produced. If 3% of them had a blown engine, that would be 6000 blown engines. It seems like there are a lot of reports of blown engines in these pages and in other forums -- but nothing remotely approaching even a couple of hundred.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that there are 200 reports of blown engines on the various forums here and elsewhere (which is probably an exaggeration). Let's also assume that that number represents only 10% of the actual number of blown engines (which is also an exaggeration, because most likely anyone who has a Boxster is an enthusiast who reads these forums and will raise h3ll about it). Nevertheless, using those assumptions we can hazard a guess that there have been no more than about 2000 blown engines. That figure would then represent about 1% of the total production.

Most of us would be prepared to accept a 99% reliable car that is rated "Much Better Than Average" in the Major Engine category from Consumer Reports.

God, I hope I'm right . . .

But, as you and CU stated, these ratings are based on recent model years. Most of the major complaints are for late 90s and early 2000s cars.......which make up a lot of this forun's readership. And for those folks with a recent model failure, most have a warrantee........so they are inconvenienced but get a new engine paid for by Porsche.
I'm sure that Porsche has corrected the deficiencies that cause blown engines, but we'd like to have them accept responsibility for the massive failures that older Porsche owners are experiencing at almost any milage. We can't afford to spend $10K or so on the low milage creampuff that we have cared for that is now only worth $20-30K.

[johnsimion]

Consumer Reports' "Best and Worst" issue on the newstand included ratings of the 1999, 2000, 2001 etc. cars (they don't have ratings pre-1999). Similar ratings are included in the 2008 and 2009 Buying Guides. The two Guides don't go as far back as 1999, but the ratings on the Boxster that they DO contain are not the same as those in the "Best and Worst" issue. This could indicate a mistake, or it seems more likely that the "Best and Worst" issue is a compilation based on an average of all the annual reports (?) over a period of years. For example, the 2001 Boxster is rated "Better than Average" for Engine Major in the "Best and Worst" issue, but "Much Worse than Average" in the 2008 Buyer's Guide. Either the "Best and Worst" issue is outright wrong or it is based on a compilation of several years of better than average surveys. The latter seems more likely. If so, it's also statistically more significant than a one-year sample.

Don't misunderstand me -- I do think ANY engine failure more than a tiny, tiny fraction (i.e. a lot less than my speculative failure rate of 1%) is unacceptable and I completely support efforts to make Porsche take care of the problem. Just two weeks ago, I bought a 1999 with under 15K miles, then I read these forums and scared myself silly. I was ready to resell the car and get an S2000, but since then I have calmed myself down. The odds seem to favor me and so I'm learning to live with that 1% risk. However, I'm already planning for the worst: Raising heck with Porsche and trying to save for the 350 HP Raby engine if and when my engine does blow. "Well, honey, I have to replace the engine and this was all they have available." Hehehe

[Bobiam]

Originally Posted by johnsimion

Consumer Reports' "Best and Worst" issue on the newstand included ratings of the 1999, 2000, 2001 etc. cars (they don't have ratings pre-1999). Similar ratings are included in the 2008 and 2009 Buying Guides. The two Guides don't go as far back as 1999, but the ratings on the Boxster that they DO contain are not the same as those in the "Best and Worst" issue. This could indicate a mistake, or it seems more likely that the "Best and Worst" issue is a compilation based on an average of all the annual reports (?) over a period of years. For example, the 2001 Boxster is rated "Better than Average" for Engine Major in the "Best and Worst" issue, but "Much Worse than Average" in the 2008 Buyer's Guide. Either the "Best and Worst" issue is outright wrong or it is based on a compilation of several years of better than average surveys. The latter seems more likely. If so, it's also statistically more significant than a one-year sample.

Don't misunderstand me -- I do think ANY engine failure more than a tiny, tiny fraction (i.e. a lot less than my speculative failure rate of 1%) is unacceptable and I completely support efforts to make Porsche take care of the problem. Just two weeks ago, I bought a 1999 with under 15K miles, then I read these forums and scared myself silly. I was ready to resell the car and get an S2000, but since then I have calmed myself down. The odds seem to favor me and so I'm learning to live with that 1% risk. However, I'm already planning for the worst: Raising heck with Porsche and trying to save for the 350 HP Raby engine if and when my engine does blow. "Well, honey, I have to replace the engine and this was all they have available." Hehehe

Thank you....I stand partly corrected!! The 4/08 CR issue rated the 911 and Boxster back to '02. WE know that there isn't much difference between the engines in the two cars except liters and HP. The Porsche earned "worse than average" marks in '02 through '05 when both cars are viewed together. But we don't know the sample sizes or enough to comment much more than that. So, like I said above, the newer cars are improved. On the next page is the data for Toyota.....I wish that Porsche had Toyota making their engines!!!!!!! And a few pages away is that other Boxer style engine car, the Subaru. They have a substantially better record than Porsche and you don't need a fortune to maintain them.
I love my Boxster, but there is no good reason that an engine that expensive should have a major failure when cared for and driven reasonably.

Bob

[Bobiam]

I broke down and bought an extended warranty. 3 yrs coverage for$1600 or $1800 (I forget!), but it will let me sleep at night......

I'm retired and simply could not afford to replace an engine if I suffered a catistrophic engine failure such as discussed in this thread.

This goes against my usual car care principles and prevents me form doing my own maint, such as oil changes, to honor the warranty, but I feel safer now.

Much thanks to all that have contributed to this thread.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Bobiam

I broke down and bought an extended warranty. 3 yrs coverage for$1600 or $1800 (I forget!), but it will let me sleep at night......

I'm retired and simply could not afford to replace an engine if I suffered a catistrophic engine failure such as discussed in this thread.

This goes against my usual car care principles and prevents me form doing my own maint, such as oil changes, to honor the warranty, but I feel safer now.

Much thanks to all that have contributed to this thread.

This sounds like a wise move for you.

Best of luck with the car!

[denverpete]

Hmmm... Wonder how many times I've written this out here?

Bought my '99 Boxster in May of 2005 with around 12,000 miles on it. Less than a month later it just died at a light. Towed to the dealer and waited for the bad news.

Complete engine failure. As with most, there was no telling what the actual problem was since I'd have to pay to find that out for sure. But the guess, of course, was the intermediate shaft.

Luckily for me, the car was covered by a 90 day warranty from the dealer. So, they were forced to front the $10-12k required for a new engine.

For the first year or so I still lived in a bit of fear though that grew less and less. Still, that fear never erased the joy I felt in firing it up, dropping the top, and just driving.

Then little oil drops started appearing right where an RMS leak should be...

Sold it a few weeks ago for a certified '06 Cayenne Turbo S. It doesn't have nearly the same sound or sportyness of the Boxster. But it fits where my life is now and gets the kiddos to basketball practice in stupid fast fashion.

[ponyster]

I purchased my 02 Boxster S from my boss! Everyone thought it was brand new because he had taken such good care of the car, even my mechanic wondered about the cleanliness under the convertible cover and how well the engine and all other mechanicals had been maintained.

I started with 32K miles, and now after about a year at about 42K; the car just stopped on a neighborhood street with the check engine light on. Mechanic says error codes indicate 3 cylinders on passenger side not functioning; likely needs new engine. Total expected damage is $10K for engine and $2K for labor. No indication of problem with intermediate shaft or RMS, exterior is free of oil. Could it be the vario-timing cam?

I love my new baby, but it is costing way too much.

[jcb986]

I just bought my first Boxster, a 2000 S. Grey metallic with red leather, carbon package, 18" turbo wheels. A one owner with 67,000 miles. I read about the engine problems, but heck, I never would buy a first year production model or second year. Usually the third year they have everything under control. Any way, it's a one owner and well maintained. Love it.

[smiledrs]

Add me to the list of early blown engines. 1998 Boxster with just 16,500 miles engine went dead over a year ago. Sent to Todd and he put a 3.4L 996.

[Bobiam]

Originally Posted by smiledrs

Add me to the list of early blown engines. 1998 Boxster with just 16,500 miles engine went dead over a year ago. Sent to Todd and he put a 3.4L 996.

What was the specific failure and cause of your misfortune? And, if you don't mind, to be curious, what did that great upgrade to 3.4 cost you?

[Paul]

Porsche's new design of our motors has no liners, no IMS, and no crank carrier; very much like a 944 motor. (From a tech session at this year's Parade.)

[chitowndad]

I know I should know the answer to this question but what year did they redesign the Boxster engine to remove the IMS etc., 2005?

-Steve

[Paul]

2009 as far as I know.

[dbw]

I bought my first Porsche - 2004 Boxster with 35000km - a couple of months ago. Local one owner car bought and serviced at the dealership I purchased from. Love the car but concerned about the potential for total engine destruction. If it did not have the 2 year cpo warranty I probably would not have bought it. When the cpo warranty has run its course I'll have to think long and hard whether I want to keep it. Dave

[ovul82jazz]

Hi There...

If you wouldn't mind sharing a draft of your letter to Porsche, it would be wonderful. No panic, but I just would like to be prepared if anything untoward happens.

Thanks very much for your generous offer!

Rover

Originally Posted by Bobiam

EXCELLENT information. Thank you. A 9 yr old car with only 45K is a good example of a well cared for car (I assume that you do not race it) that went bad and your skills with writing reaped a fair reward. Now it's a keeper. Good luck and thanks again.
How long ago did this all happen???

[Lawdevil]

Originally Posted by chitowndad

I know I should know the answer to this question but what year did they redesign the Boxster engine to remove the IMS etc., 2005?

-Steve

THe IMS went away with the 2009 MY