6th gear

[Another S in S]

Originally posted by Richard Truss
I drive an S. I use 6th all the time. The S will smoke ANY 2.7 (without either being modded). And I would garner to say that 99.9% of all non-S boxster owners would have taken an S -- all things being equal (i.e. price, mileage, condition, etc).

no matter what you believe, the S can outrun and out perform the 2.7. So what's there to like more about the 2.7?

Sorry, it depends more on the driver than the car. The performance between the base and S is too close to call. Go to your local bookstore, pick up a copy of Road & Track magazine and look at their road test summary. The difference in 0 - 60 between the base and S is just .3 seconds. It's a toss up.

A driver with track experience and practice in launch starting will beat you in a base 0 - 60 than you in your S, (unless you too have launch starting/track experience). An expert driver in a Honda Accord EX V6 will beat the average S driver 0 - 60.

[Adam]

Again, why so fixated on the 5 spd? I hope you relish in the oh so nice feel of your 5-spd when a box s puts BUS-LENGTHS on your car at the roadcourse and the dragstrip. The box does mid 14's and the box s does high 13's. This is huge. The difference between a 13.8 sec run and 14.4 sec run is a couple big yellow mayflowers. Road and track seem to steer vehicles just fine but something happens when they try to get the car down the strip. They are consistently the slowest out of all major car magazines. They need to take driving lessons from M/T or C&D.

[Another S in S]

Originally posted by Adam
Again, why so fixated on the 5 spd? I hope you relish in the oh so nice feel of your 5-spd when a box s puts BUS-LENGTHS on your car at the roadcourse and the dragstrip. The box does mid 14's and the box s does high 13's. This is huge. The difference between a 13.8 sec run and 14.4 sec run is a couple big yellow mayflowers. Road and track seem to steer vehicles just fine but something happens when they try to get the car down the strip. They are consistently the slowest out of all major car magazines. They need to take driving lessons from M/T or C&D.

Again, I repeat, the performance between the base and S is a toss up. An expert driver with DE experience in a base can beat you in your S on a track, 0 - 60, 1/4 mile, whatever, you name it. It takes more skill than you think to do launch starts and 1/4 mile runs.

On the other hand, you in say a 997S can beat that expert driver in his base. The performance advantage of the 997S over the base Boxster is clear. The performance advantage of the Boxster S over the base Boxster is not so clear. It depends more on the driver in this case.

P.S. you've grown up Adam since you were kicked out of ppbb.com. That's one thing we have in common- we were both kicked out of ppbb.com. Who knows, maybe they will take you back.

[Lux]

Originally posted by Another S in S
Go back and look at my numbers and look at the percentage differences between the S and base gearing and compare the deltas in difference in HP between the base, S, and 996. . The problem with your data is you're not looking at the percentage difference, only raw numbers.

Again, you're wrong. The 996 has nothing to do with your claim that the Base is better geared than the S. I've never paid much attention to the Base before this but I've now realized that the Base is geared much too high compared to the S.

How's this for facts...the Base would be quicker and more driveable with the 6 speed. Sorry, but that's the facts.

Then read what John Brown said. That's why the base is better off than the S. I wish I had CFG's discussion on the matter because he had more data. I only quoted his summary, but he did have some interesting data. I trust him and his data. It makes sense.

Here we go again. The old "I wish I had all this data but I've somehow lost it and can't back up anything that I've said" line.

BTW, John Brown's comment makes no sense. "The S has the 996 tranny so the Base must be better." Apparently he doesn't understand gearing and is making assumptions. Like you do.

None of your arguments have many any sense whatsoever

Haha. Good one. I can't stop laughing!

I answered your question

No you didn't....as usual.

now answer me this, why did JLR say this:

"I've just concluded -- agreeing with many -- that the 6 speed transmission in the S is just not that smooth. "
-JLR

How the heck do I know? Maybe he'll say that the Boxster rides rough too. What's this have anything to do with the "Base having better gearing?" Is JLR one of your many aliases?

I'm sure you read it last week on ppbb.com. I have quotes from at least 20 S owners and previous S owners all bemoaning the 6 speed.

Even if you can find me 100 owners that don't like the 6 speed it is a drop in the bucket out of all the S owners. Even Charles Manson found enough whackos to follow him.

You can start by asking Meredith on ppbb.com why she prefers the 5 speed over the 6 speed.
hehehe

What do I care what Meredith prefers? Should I ask automatic owners what they prefer also? Give me facts that can be backed up with physics and mathematics.

[Another S in S]

Now you know comparing automatic tranny with manual is comparing apples and oranges. Let's stick to the base 5 speed vs. S 6 speed, OK?

If you think the base would drive better if it had the 6 speed, how do you explain this comment from Excellence magazine from a few years ago comparing the 2.7L vs. S:

"And with the base car's slightly longer gear spacing, you're less likely to shift up to third while driving from light to light - which makes it a bit easier to drive around town. So in an urban environment, the base car may be a better pick than the Boxster S, ..."

I'm seeing a pattern here, authorative unbiased sources like Excellence magazine, Porsche experts like CFG, they're all wrong. The Lux is right.

Um....I think the Lux is wrong. I'll believe the experts and unbiased authorative sources.

P.S. Excellence magazine also said in the same article the base was a better buy than the S. Sorry you wasted money on the S.

[Richard Truss]

Yes, I understand Mario Andretti could smoke me in my S with a skateboard. BUT, again, apples to apples -- who would win with 2 totally equally skilled (highly skilled) drivers and 2 totally stock, same year (lets take 2000, since that is the year of my car) boxster's and boxster S's?

You want fair compaisons, then compare fair. same driver. same conditions. who wins?

[Lux]

If you think the base would drive better if it had the 6 speed, how do you explain this comment from Excellence magazine from a few years ago comparing the 2.7L vs. S:

"And with the base car's slightly longer gear spacing, you're less likely to shift up to third while driving from light to light - which makes it a bit easier to drive around town. So in an urban environment, the base car may be a better pick than the Boxster S, ..."

Didn't I already mention that the overall 2nd gear ratio between the S and Base are the same? I think I did. 7.56 vs 7.54. So why would Excellence make that comment about the S needing to upshift while the Base doesn't? Please explain this one to me.

Guess your one magazine that loves the Base over the S was just proven WRONG. Bwahahaha.

Long live the S!

[F1CAR4ME]

This argument is ridiculous. Arguing that Michael Schumacher in a base could beat me in an S proves nothing. What proves something is that if I take an S and a base to a drag strip and a road course I'm goin to set a lower ET and faster lap time in the S than in the base. This isn't hard to understand. A half second in the 1/4 mile is an eternity.

Your argument is like saying since a 3 liter turbodiesel gets better mileage than a 1.8 liter gasoline four cylinder that all larger engines are more fuel efficient than all smaller engines. It's just not a valid logical argument.

If you like the 5-speed better than the 6-speed, fine. Wo are we to argue that. But your personal opinion isn't scientific fact so please stop arguing as if it was.

[Ad Sach]

re "I have quotes from at least 20 S owners and previous S owners all bemoaning the 6 speed. "

Can you check those quotes and see if one of them is from me?

[Another S in S]

Originally posted by Lux


Didn't I already mention that the overall 2nd gear ratio between the S and Base are the same? I think I did. 7.56 vs 7.54. So why would Excellence make that comment about the S needing to upshift while the Base doesn't? Please explain this one to me.

Guess your one magazine that loves the Base over the S was just proven WRONG. Bwahahaha.

Long live the S! [/B]

Excellence made that comment because of the deltas in the HP, between the base, S, and 996. I keep telling you, the S 996 tranny is for the 996 drivetrain, which has way more power than your underpowered S (yes I admit the base is underpowered too but that's a separate issue). It's funny how you either focus on the HP and neglect the gear ratios or focus on the gear ratios and completely leave out the HP differences. IF you put 2 and 2 together maybe you'll get it. I doubt it.

Any way, my purpose isn't try to convert you since you are obviously brainwashed and will not see the light. You're like someone who belongs to a cult and no amount of expert testimony and professionals trying to reason with you is going to hepl you.

All I can say is I got all my information from authoritative Porsche sources and experts. That's how I formed my opinion, along with driving both the S and base. I've backed up all my claims with expert sources and the opinions of the layman S owner (see quotes below). You on the other hand are a one man monkey, spouting ridiculous claims in the wind. Who do you have backing up your claims? It's just you and your illogical, useless gibberish numbers.

Didya know that noone has agreed with your logic and data so far? Gee... I wonder why. Because it doesn't make any sense. It's just you and your delusional thoughts vs. the world.

Some people who agree with ME. These people can all be contacted on ppbb.com for verification. Now, knowing your paranoid personality, you'll probably go out there and create fake users to start bashing the 5 speed and start collecting quotes yourself. Sorry, I know your game so don't even try it.


"Drove 6000 miles in 2 years [Boxster 'S'] and the gearing was horrible in my opinion....I was unhappy with the Boxster 'S'...
The Boxster 'S' should have gotten the 5 speed gearbox of the 2.7..."
-Chris from Germany (CFG)
Admin for 996 board (http://www.funcarsonline.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php)


"I've read that criticism ('S' tranny) in other reviews of the S over
the years since its introduction. The criticism is based on the fact that the S 6-speed gearing is the same as the Carrera 6-speed's gearing. Considering the S' considerably less power & torque than the Carrera's, it's easy to understand why either the S' engine is too little for its transmission or its transmission is too much for its engine. Many here & elsewhere have theorized Porsche did this intentionally, both to save $$ and to keep
the S way below Carrera performance territory IAW their marketing strategy.

All sounds reasonable to me. But the actual gear ratios of the S can pretty easily be compared to the Carrera specs & then we'll all know for sure. Data's probably even available on the net."
-John Brown of Northern Virginia

"I've just concluded -- agreeing with many -- that the 6 speed transmission in the S is just not that smooth. "
-JLR


"I prefer the 5 speed over the 6 speed"
-Meredith
An admin on PPBB

"Have to make a comment about the 2.7L, after owning one for 2 years and an S for 8 months I have to say I wouldn't mine going back to the 2.7. Driving in the city you couldn't tell the difference, as a matter of fact the 2.7 feels better in the city than the S."
-Shaeetoon(DFW)

"I've own/owned 3 Porsches (01 996, 02 996 and 01 Boxster S). Strangely, the shifter in my Boxster S is one of its weak points. It feels sloppy, plastic, and it's hard to get into 3rd gear. The dealer service tech tested my car and told me it is typical, and within
normal. "
-Ray Gram

"The gearbox on the S seems mushy, as well as the clutch. The base seemed a lot more precise. "
-robb in socal

"I still maintain that the 5-spd feels better than the 6-spd. "
-Brian Harrington, 'S' owner

"When I drove the 5-speed it seemed to shifter easier (less balking) than the 6-speed
in the "S"."
-John S

"that was my experience as well."
-al greenborg

"On a test drive of the S 6-speed vs 2.7 5-speed , I loved the S power, could not tell the difference in brakes but much prefered the 5-speed. It seemed to match the engine better."
-Iwas There (Toronto)

"but its gear ratios are not particularly well suited to the S' 3.2 liter engine. "
-John Brown of Northern Virginia

Andrew P's observations ('S' owner)
1) Torque delivery in 3rd is lackluster. This isn't a complaint, but I'm used to cars pulling a lot harder in 3rd. There's plenty of pull in 2nd, but 3rd seems a little anemic. Having said that, I am faithfully following the break-in guidelines and not taking the
engine past 4200... I have a feeling that the 3rd gear "fun" doesn't start until the 5000
range...

2) The shifter is a little sloppy. I find the throws to be a tad long, but not too long. It's not spongy (is that a word) like my BMW... it's just... ahh... the best way to describe it is that the spring that brings the shifer in between the 3rd and 4th gates while in neutral isn't strong enough. I've missed a number of shifts (fortunately I've cuaght myself).... It seems that I've been conditioned to work with that spring-load and
I'm just not getting that feedback.

3) The synchros don't always seem to work. I've never "ground" anything, but sometimes I just can't get it to go into gear (on upshifts). A little bit of double-clutching solves the problem. I'm not sure what's going on here... hopefully I was just having a bad day...

[Another S in S]

Originally posted by F1CAR4ME
This argument is ridiculous. Arguing that Michael Schumacher in a base could beat me in an S proves nothing. What proves something is that if I take an S and a base to a drag strip and a road course I'm goin to set a lower ET and faster lap time in the S than in the base. This isn't hard to understand. A half second in the 1/4 mile is an eternity.

Your argument is like saying since a 3 liter turbodiesel gets better mileage than a 1.8 liter gasoline four cylinder that all larger engines are more fuel efficient than all smaller engines. It's just not a valid logical argument.

If you like the 5-speed better than the 6-speed, fine. Wo are we to argue that. But your personal opinion isn't scientific fact so please stop arguing as if it was.

No no no that's not what I said that's what the Lux (pro-S troll) said. What I said was an expert driver with practice on launch starts ,with far less driving experience than Schumacher, can beat your average S driver. On the other hand that same expert driver in his base couldn't beat the average 997S or 996 GT3 driver.

The point is, the performance difference between the base and S is negligible and depends more on the driver than the car. On the other hand the performance difference between the base/S and a 997S or GT3 is significant and any weakness in the driver can be made up by the clear and prodigous performance advantage of the 997S or GT3.

There's no such clear advantage of the S over the base. It's a toss up. It depends on the driver. There's no such dependence on the driver with the base/S vs. 997S/GT3 example. Any joe schmoe in a 997S or GT3 can beat the best driver in the world in a base/S 0 - 60.

[Lux]

Originally posted by Another S in S
Excellence made that comment because of the deltas in the HP, between the base, S, and 996.

Nice try. Nowhere in that sentence by Excellence did they mention the 996. They said the Base with taller gearing than the S can eliminate the shift to 3rd between lights. So I proved them (and you) wrong. It's so easy it's getting boring.

BTW, I see you avoided my questions again with even more subjective quotes than ever. It's kinda like being carpet bombed with idiocy. LOL!

This has been entertaining but I'm done OWNING you. Oh, and BTW, everybody that has been ripping on you in this thread...? It means that they don't agree with you.

[Lux]

Originally posted by Ad Sach
re "I have quotes from at least 20 S owners and previous S owners all bemoaning the 6 speed. "

Can you check those quotes and see if one of them is from me?

Can you check and see if I'm in there too?

[Adam]

Originally posted by Another S in S


P.S. you've grown up Adam since you were kicked out of ppbb.com. That's one thing we have in common- we were both kicked out of ppbb.com. Who knows, maybe they will take you back. [/B]

I see you remember me as well. How long did you have to kiss Skylers ass before he let you back in the ppbb club? I admit I probabbly did deserve to get kicked out because I did purposely act like a troll and I didn't take anything seriously. However, I don't really miss PPBB. It is a frickin dictatorship over there run by overzealous moderators on a HUGE power trip(coughskylercough). They play favorites like nobody's buisness over there. I should have a different IP address soon so I might just sneek in there and see what I have been missing *rolls eyes*.

[Another S in S]

Originally posted by Lux


Nice try. Nowhere in that sentence by Excellence did they mention the 996. They said the Base with taller gearing than the S can eliminate the shift to 3rd between lights. So I proved them (and you) wrong. It's so easy it's getting boring.

BTW, I see you avoided my questions again with even more subjective quotes than ever. It's kinda like being carpet bombed with idiocy. LOL!

This has been entertaining but I'm done OWNING you. Oh, and BTW, everybody that has been ripping on you in this thread...? It means that they don't agree with you. [/B]

I answered all your questions ad nauseum, granted you have to put 2 and 2 together sometimes which you obviously can't do. That's why you don't understand what Excellence is saying. You simply can't put 2 and 2 together. You're hopeless.

[Subanez]

Might I suggest...that this thread simply die?

What's really the point of it all? I love my porsche. You love YOUR porsche. Instead of getting everyone all pissed at you, why don't you just get over yourself? This is supposed to be a site where information is shared and we all enjoy the fact that Porsches are the best damn cars on the road...not to beat tired subjects into the ground.

Holy CRAP

[Alienz]

This thread is turning more personal than a logical discussion.

[F1CAR4ME]

Originally posted by Another S in S
No no no that's not what I said that's what the Lux (pro-S troll) said. What I said was an expert driver with practice on launch starts ,with far less driving experience than Schumacher, can beat your average S driver.

So what you said is than an expert driver in a base can beat a non-expert driver in an S. Agin, it proves nothing except that the advantage of the s isn't enough to outweigh the driver's inexperience. It doesn't "prove" that the base tranny is better than the S tranny.

[Adam]

[i]

P.S. you've grown up Adam since you were kicked out of ppbb.com. That's one thing we have in common- we were both kicked out of ppbb.com. Who knows, maybe they will take you back. [/B]

I just happened to try to get on ppbb today and I actually got in. I still can't post without moderator approval LOL , but I can read the messages. I see that boxsterbob still remembers me as well as Zalinsky. Anywho, I noticed that they just recently banned tool pants too. I think they are getting alittle ban happy over there. TP seems like a nice enough guy and he knows everything boxster. He must have pissed off Skyler too! Pretty soon it's gonna be all the ppbb rejects hanging out here LOL. The thing is, this forum is more professional and informative than ppbb and it's all done without waving the ban wand. JT has a good place here. Sorry to see you giving up 986forum.com JT.

[mrmickeymouse]

I stood up for tool pants today and got zapped.

Skyler what a piece of work..