Deeeeeppp Trouble!

Originally Posted by cfos

Perhaps, if the guy on the bike wasn't being "capricious", the cop wouldn't have died. Likewise, out o curiosity was "speeding" the only crime that caused the chase or was there more to being capricious? Or is behavior "capricious" as long as no bodily harm occurs? Personally, I don't think speeding tickets and speed limits are stupid; I agree with MNBoxster as a matter of point.

I didn't say speed limits were stupid, you did. I said that speeding, in general is a fee fishing expedition. Everyone in NY is doing 80 on the highway, posted speed is 65, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Oh and speeding was the only crime in the NY trooper case, I've never been through police training and I know you don't try to run down an excellent motorcycle driver with a truck, that trooper is lucky he didn't wipe out a family of six. Lastly, I have family in federal law enforcement, local law enforcement and Sheriff dept. They all speed when they are not on duty, go figure...

[David N.]

Just noticed the chase argument. There was another case in Florida where a camaro trooper was chasing a sportbike at 100+ and the camaro ended up hitting another car and killing the cop and a civilian. The Sportbiker turned himself in and now they want to convict him with double homicide.

I'm not weighing in on the righteousness of that conviction, but rather that despite the danger of a bike going 100+, chasing him at 100+ is highly questionable. The state of Florida has 'no chase' policies, so they leave it for the choppers to keep tabs while the cops stay back. In this case the cop violated and the biker is having to pay. Was pulling over a sportbike worth the danger? I'll leave it up to you guys to have an opinion.

-David

Originally Posted by David N.

Just noticed the chase argument. There was another case in Florida where a camaro trooper was chasing a sportbike at 100+ and the camaro ended up hitting another car and killing the cop and a civilian. The Sportbiker turned himself in and now they want to convict him with double homicide.

I'm not weighing in on the righteousness of that conviction, but rather that despite the danger of a bike going 100+, chasing him at 100+ is highly questionable. The state of Florida has 'no chase' policies, so they leave it for the choppers to keep tabs while the cops stay back. In this case the cop violated and the biker is having to pay. Was pulling over a sportbike worth the danger? I'll leave it up to you guys to have an opinion.

-David

David,

Remember he's not chasing a rapist or murderer, he's chasing a guy to ticket him, the chase becomes all about adrenaline. A corvette blew by my cousins undercover car one day and he didn't even try to chase it. He said, look at the lead he already has, it's red and I got the first two digits, I'll see him again, that's the right choice for sure...

[Grizzly]

@ TriGem. It's a shame the Officers didn't get the BMW. 154 miles an hour, in a speed contest, in a car also occupied by his wife??? That's friggin' stupid. Was the baby strapped in her car seat also??? That would complete the picture, wouldn't it?

If you decide to kill yourself, whatever, but don't take out your loved ones when you go. I can't tell you how many times I've seen these young boys mash up their sport bikes with their girlfriends on the back. WTF???

Be very careful taking some of this advice. Trying to place blame on the BMW is basically admitting that you were drag racing and asking for a whole lot more trouble than you already have.

As far as telling your parents about what happened? I think it's a good idea. Better to get in front of it now and get it over with. Your Dad's going to find out sooner or later. You might as well be the one to tell him. If he finds out by some other means, and realizes that you've hidden something or deceived him, that adds a whole other dimension, and potentially damages your relationship. It's not worth the scant possibility that he won't find out.

On the issue of chases vs. no chases, I can see both sides of the argument, but I will tell you this. If I'm a bad guy and I know the cops can't chase me, I'm going to run. And I'll remain free to victimize someone else. Maybe the offender is only running from the traffic violation - maybe not. The only way to find out is to run him down, catch him and beat it out of him...um, um, um, I mean ask him nicely, after reading him his Miranda rights and buying him a cold soda.

Are all chases smart? No. Are some chases necessary? Absolutely. The problem is knowing when a chase has become too dangerous and being able to cut it off. At that point, competent supervision becomes imperative. When you're chasing a bad guy, you get tunnel vision. Your adrenaline gets up and you become as intent on catching him, as he is on escaping you. As well as you may know the rules, judgement can become clouded when the chase is in full swing. That's when a good supervisor, monitoring the radio traffic, is necessary to bring things back into perspective. Some chases should continue due to the nature of the crime. Some should end, sooner rather than later.

[Brucelee]

I'm reminded of when my son told me about his DWI arrest, three days later.

He spent the night in jail and I asked him why he didn't call me so that I could have come and got him.

He said, "Well, Dad, I figured I was safer in jail than riding home with you!"

He was right!

Having said that, once he told me, we worked it all out.

It DID cost him his car though!

As a father, I would be pretty devasted if my son did NOT tell me what he had done.

But, I can't speak for any other fathers out there.

[cfos]

Originally Posted by DrRoentgen

I didn't say speed limits were stupid, you did. I said that speeding, in general is a fee fishing expedition. Everyone in NY is doing 80 on the highway, posted speed is 65, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Oh and speeding was the only crime in the NY trooper case, I've never been through police training and I know you don't try to run down an excellent motorcycle driver with a truck, that trooper is lucky he didn't wipe out a family of six. Lastly, I have family in federal law enforcement, local law enforcement and Sheriff dept. They all speed when they are not on duty, go figure...

Well, well, well *L* Obviously you weren't a "gunner" in medical school *LOL*

Here is my direct quote:

"Personally, I don't think speeding tickets and speed limits are stupid;..."

Where am I saying speed limits are stupid? Nowhere. I'm just including my opinion of them along with the opinion I hold for speeding tickets.

As for NY drivers, forgive me, I haven't lived in the Tri-state area since the late 90s and I sometimes forget how everyone there is so much more busy and important than the rest of Amerika. It is a shame about the officer that lost their life. Not being one (like you), I don't imagine I know what I'd do if I was faced with such a thing as a capricious youth on a cycle. I'd be concerned that he might cause an accident and HOPE that if I gave chase with sirens that the speeder would do the "right" thing, like our friend TriGem who may have only been mildly deceptive (?) when trying to exit. Obviously, we'll never know, but that is what I choose to believe.

Finally, just a point about arguments. You end with a fallacy that is generally referenced as "an appeal to authority". I mean, it's all well and good that you have family and know people in law enforcement, but seriously, just because they speed... that doesn't make it right or would you argue it does? Do you run the red light at 2 am because nobody else is up and the 4-way intersection is clear? I don't know.

Edit: Not sure about the murderer or rapist charges as we are currently looking at 2 cases of motorbike infractions nationwide. I do wonder though, do murderers and rapists drive their getaway cars more slowly? Or does that change the "chase mentality" making it more justified?

[Ray]

TriGem,

Just glad that neither you nor the public were injured in that type of speed! I think you have to be very lucky:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/enforce/speedlaws501/toc/caspeed.pdf

If you read the >=100mph section you will find that they could have impounded your vehicle for 6 months as well. (Starts pg 29)

Tell your dad asap... don't let that fester or your dad will wonder about any other things you may or may not have done.

Best of luck to you, join your local Porsche club and take it to the track!

[TriGem2k]

" like our friend TriGem who may have only been mildly deceptive (?) when trying to exit. Obviously, we'll never know, but that is what I choose to believe."

CFOS - What is that supposed to mean? I didn't exit the highway nor change lanes until the Officer was on my tail with Lights and Sounds. If I had any thought of getting away why would I even slow down from 154MPH? What are the chances the officer would have got me if I continued that speed and maybe took an exit 5-10miles down the road?

Come on don't put words in my mouth or assume things I haven't said.

FrankPatrick - That’s the same thing I read on the CA DMV website. I just hope they don't go with the 30days license suspension.

Husker - I did not post this thread thinking "I can't believe I got caught" or "I hate law enforcement". I admit wrong therefore did man up to what has been done. Now just trying to figure out the best approach to be able to keep my driving privilege

[cfos]

Originally Posted by TriGem2k

" like our friend TriGem who may have only been mildly deceptive (?) when trying to exit. Obviously, we'll never know, but that is what I choose to believe."

CFOS - What is that supposed to mean? I didn't exit the highway nor change lanes until the Officer was on my tail with Lights and Sounds. If I had any thought of getting away why would I even slow down from 154MPH? What are the chances the officer would have got me if I continued that speed and maybe took an exit 5-10miles down the road?

Come on don't put words in my mouth or assume things I haven't said.

I'm not trying to put words into your mouth or make assumptions (hence the "?" -- see above). The way your story reads is that you pull over hoping that the police officer was going to go after the BMW, right? If THAT had happened, would you have gone up to the cop afterwards and accepted a ticket? Hell no. You would have likely pulled off at an exit parked somewhere off the road and sat for a hour or two hoping that no one came back, right? Then, instead of using "Deeeep trouble" your thread would have read "Cloooose Call". You gambled and lost. Rather than asking why you would slow down from 154, the better question would be what drove you to 154 in the first place. Seriously. Lots of people have piped in about speeding, but I haven't seen one say they topped 150 off the track.

Edit: Oh yeah, let's not forget that you are trying to NOT involve your dad in this even though you are on his insurance policy -- isn't that right?

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by DrRoentgen

I didn't say speed limits were stupid, you did. I said that speeding, in general is a fee fishing expedition. Everyone in NY is doing 80 on the highway, posted speed is 65, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Oh and speeding was the only crime in the NY trooper case, I've never been through police training and I know you don't try to run down an excellent motorcycle driver with a truck, that trooper is lucky he didn't wipe out a family of six. Lastly, I have family in federal law enforcement, local law enforcement and Sheriff dept. They all speed when they are not on duty, go figure...

Hi,

I think the wrong perspective is being taken in this. No, no one here wants to see this kid suffer unecessarily, that's been said by almost everyone.

But, this infraction was not such as you describe - being pulled over the limit by the flow of traffic, or not noticing how fast one was going. Nor was the lister culled out of a herd of fast traffic by a Cop with an attitude toward Porsches, or a desire to swell the State coffers.

This was a deliberate decision to accept a throwdown from the driver of the BMW and knowingly exceed the legal limit. Those are two entirely different things.

I hope TG2K doesn't have to pay too severe a penalty for his poor judgement - something we have all been guilty of from time-to-time, especially in our youth.

But, this is now one of his life's experiences. One from which he can draw when making future (hopefully better) decisions.

One can only hope that the contrition which he now seems to be sincerely displaying will not fade over time, or become diluted if he's fortunate enough to avoid the harshest penalties, which we all hope for...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Patto]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I think the wrong perspective is being taken in this. No, no one here wants to see this kid suffer unecessarily, that's been said by almost everyone.

But, this infraction was not such as you describe - being pulled over the limit by the flow of traffic, or not noticing how fast one was going. Nor was the lister culled out of a herd of fast traffic by a Cop with an attitude toward Porsches, or a desire to swell the State coffers.

This was a deliberate decision to accept a throwdown from the driver of the BMW and knowingly exceed the legal limit. Those are two entirely different things.

I hope TG2K doesn't have to pay too severe a penalty for his poor judgement - something we have all been guilty of from time-to-time, especially in our youth.

But, this is now one of his life's experiences. One from which he can draw when making future (hopefully better) decisions.

One can only hope that the contrition which he now seems to be sincerely displaying will not fade over time, or become diluted if he's fortunate enough to avoid the harshest penalties, which we all hope for...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Well said Jim.

A similar thing happend to me many years ago and I lost my license for 6 months and paid a hefty fine. In hindsight it was the best thing that happened to me as I've not done something that stupid again. It was also the catalyst for a very big life change but that's another story. Worse thing that 'could' have happened was I hurt someone else. A fine and a suspension is small price to pay in comparison.

Not trying to bash on you TG2K, you know you did something stupid as you've stated. Just be glad you're lucky enough to get a fine and possible suspension. If you were in Australia especially NSW as young driver doing that speed you'd be locked up and your car taken away for sure.