Speeding Ticket - The Fight Begins

[shaman1204]

I agree with SD987. Although I have not had a ticket where I live now, knock on wood, where I grew up (central Illinois), the troopers/cops scheduled their court dates on their days off for OT. If you are going to pay anyway, in any form, make it worth your tax dollars. Depending on your work schedule, fight it. At least you know where your tax dollars are going.

David, so you were speeding and now you are just going to deny & fight it? I hope your strategy works. Just how fast were you going?

You were speeding. You knew it. You got caught. Why not just pay the ticket, and be done with it?

[porschegeorg]

On the few tickets I received, they always said how they determined my speed, either "radar" or "vascar". It was a required field to fill out on the ticket form.

I fought a ticket in court once, and lost, but they did reduce my fine to the equivalent of doing 60 in a 55 (and no points on my record).

[David N.]

Hmm bmussatti, I think of it like this.

LAPD: "We got you. We saw a puff of smoke, and we got you. We saw you fire your fully registered and licensed weapon, so we're hauling you in for murder. We don't know if you actually shot someone, but hey it's a fancy gun, so we're gonna say you shot a couple people, why not right? We can't prove anything, we don't have a body, but you know you shot someone, that's enough for us."

Imagine if everything worked like this..

-David

Originally Posted by David N.

Hmm bmussatti, I think of it like this.

LAPD: "We got you. We saw a puff of smoke, and we got you. We saw you fire your fully registered and licensed weapon, so we're hauling you in for murder. We don't know if you actually shot someone, but hey it's a fancy gun, so we're gonna say you shot a couple people, why not right? We can't prove anything, we don't have a body, but you know you shot someone, that's enough for us."

Imagine if everything worked like this..

-David

You did not answer my questions.

Pay the fine, and move on. You were speeding...right. Ya got caught. Sorry.

[Grizzly]

More than likely they paced you with a cruiser with a calibrated speedometer. You can fight the ticket, but they'll probably win the case.

I really like SD987's approach of wasting as much Police Officer time as possible to get even. The only thing that I would add is ********************ing about slow Police response the next time your family needs help, caused by a whole city full of self rightous jerkoffs doing the same thing.

[CJ_Boxster]

ohh....... quite now...... ***waiting for chair to be randomly thrown so fight can break out***

[986speedster]

I love it when the police give you a ticket, they are jerkoffs!!! Even when you admit you were speeding. But hey, they are just wasting your time, until you crash, and kill someone, or a motorcycle rider pulls out... or maybe...they were busy rescuing people, like 9/11.... arresting some innocent murderer...etc. So many liberals have so many opinions, but do nothing to help others except B$tch and complain about everything..boohoo!!! Pay the ticket and go change your maxipad!!

[SD987]

If my refusal to submit feebly to the stacked deck of highway enforcement makes me a self-righteous jerkoff, then so be it.

In the meantime I'm trying to mentally reconcile your concern for your brethren in law enforcement while simultaneously using another thread to promote the arming of the general populace with weapons that are well beyond what could be considered the need for self-protection. I'm sure that gun-toting civilians make a cops life easier.

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

Indignation, especially when you were admitedly at fault, isn't likely to get you anywhere.

The Courts often go easier on those who are contrite and show some remorse for their actions.

Many states have alternatives to going to Court. Here in MN, you can see a Traffic Control Officer (an Officer of the Traffic Court) and ask for a CD - a Continuance for Dismissal. This is a time consuming task - usually you wait 2-3 hrs. to see a TCO, so many don't take advantage of it and simply pay the Fine.

A CD is almost always granted and while you must plead Guilty and pay a fine (most often reduced), your Citation is granted a Continuance for 1 year. If during that time, you get no other Moving Violations, the Citation is dismissed. But, if you do get another Moving Violation, both that Citation and this one fall on you full force.

The advantage is You pay a one-time Fine, but no record or points are put against you, so you avoid paying that Continuing Fine by your Insurance Co.

I was once on a CD and it actually helped me avoid another Citation. Pinched for Speeding, I explained to the Officer that if she did Cite me, this existing CD would fall on me and since I was only 5 MPH over the limit, this didn't seem fair. So she said she would cite me for driving w/o Proof of Insurance (which I had in the car) instead. But, a Citation for no Proof of Insurance is recinded if you present your Proof of Insurance to a License Clerk within 48 Hrs, so effectively I got no Citation.

Check into these, but if you're counting on the Court to show you some leniency, I might suggest adjusting both the approach and the attitude to work a little better in your favor. Good Luck!...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by SD987

If my refusal to submit feebly to the stacked deck of highway enforcement makes me a self-righteous jerkoff, then so be it.

In the meantime I'm trying to mentally reconcile your concern for your brethren in law enforcement while simultaneously using another thread to promote the arming of the general populace with weapons that are well beyond what could be considered the need for self-protection. I'm sure that gun-toting civilians make a cops life easier.

First, let me set the record straight. I wasn't calling you a jerkoff...at least not on purpose. My words were ill chosen. I sincerely apologize for the implication. It was entirely my fault. More than occasionally, my colorful verbiage gets me in trouble.

My only point was that wasting an Officer's time in traffic court keeps them from doing other, more important things, and further burdens an already overburdened system.

If you look at the other thread, you will see that I have recommended nothing that is more than a homeowner should possess for home protection. In fact, I attempted to steer folks away from all the exotic crap they were talking about. My original post was aimed at providing insight into the successful, layered protection of one's home. Since the thread had turned to weaponry, and a lot of the posts contained erroneous and dangerous information, I posted, not about rocket launchers and all that garbage, but about successfully surviving an armed encounter. It's a subject that I fortunately or unfortunately know an awful lot about.

I consider all of you my friends, and when I saw that you were receiving information that, if followed, would clearly get you killed, I felt compelled to step up. If you look at the other post again, I never took a stance one way or the other as far as having weapons for home protection. Judging by the makes, models and pictures of all the members handguns, that decision had clearly already been made. My only intention was to provide information to assist my friends in surviving a gunfight. It is easy to buy a gun and spout off about what you'll do if those MFers ever dare come to your house. It's a completely different ballgame when you are engaged in an armed encounter. I have been on both sides of the gun, and I'm here to tell you, when the **************** hits the fan, your tactics had better be good, or you will become very, very dead. All the bravado in the world will not save you. Despite what I consider to be the best training in the world, I still managed to get myself shot four times (same incident, four rounds). I've also had the painful honor of carrying several of my colleagues to their final resting places.

My intended contribution to the other thread was that if you're going to do it, do it right. I hate to keep picking on C.J., but if any of these guys think they're going to storm downstairs in the middle of the night with a .22 short and duke it out with some greenbean, we'll all lose a friend.

Again SD, I apologize for my ill chosen words.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by dbth

Have to disagree again on this strategy.
What difference does it make that the driver knew he was speeding , the onus is on the government to prove it.
Your constitutional rights allow you to defend yourself and the burden of proof is on the prosecutor.If you or your counsel don't think they can meet the burden of proof , dont give in.
If pleading guilty and paying the fine is in YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST (financially and/or emotionally), go ahead.

Otherwise , you are innocent until they can prove you guilty.

It amazes me that those who are so vehement about the 2nd amendment , will reliquish the 5 & 6 amendment so quickly.

Never give up your rights.

I agree that the onus is on the Government to prove its case, but remember that whether done in writing or in person on the stand, David will swear under penalty of perjury, to tell the truth about the incident. Several posts in this thread have complained that law enforcement doesn't play fairly in its highway enforcement or during the adjudication process. Somehow, however, we think it's O.K. for David to not play by the rules. David has already told us that he was speeding. We know that to be the truth because he told us it was. In the 986 forum's version of court, the Highway Patrol must come to court, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and accused gets to lie his ass off? Then the onus is on the Government to prove its case? Is that how it works? Apparently I must have slept through some of my classes.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I agree that the onus is on the Government to prove its case, but remember that whether done in writing or in person on the stand, David will swear under penalty of perjury, to tell the truth about the incident. Several posts in this thread have complained that law enforcement doesn't play fairly in its highway enforcement or during the adjudication process. Somehow, however, we think it's O.K. for David to not play by the rules. David has already told us that he was speeding. We know that to be the truth because he told us it was. In the 986 forum's version of court, the Highway Patrol must come to court, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and accused gets to lie his ass off? Then the onus is on the Government to prove its case? Is that how it works? Apparently I must have slept through some of my classes.

Very well said, Griz!

My last speeding ticket was in 1971. I was speeding, I knew it and deserved the ticket. It never ocurred to me that I should fight it, in that I KNEW I was guilty!

It did not even ocur to me that I could beat the rap because MAYBE the cop wasn't PERFECT in the way that he caught me. He caught me AND I was speeding. I paid the ticket and moved on.

Candidly, had I decided to fight that ticket, I would have been a hypocrite. If you believe in the rule of law, don't cry if it bites you in the butt.

Human's are fascinating, they can rationalize anything if it is what they want to believe.

Frankly, I am so tired of these ticket threads.

My advice, if you were speeding, don't post here asking for information about how to beat the ticket. I waill simply delete the thread.

Now, if you were NOT speeding (and you know who you are!) then, ask for help in proving your case. That is an ethical and principled way to act.

To you others, hire a shark lawyer, pay the fees and leave us alone.

[Brucelee]

Oh, one last point.

Well, you see there was this pedophile who had raped and murdered a young child.

He frequented a Porche forum and he posted, stated that he DID commit the crime but he was pretty sure the cops did not do his arrest in just the pefect/legal way.

He was asking the readers of the forum for some help in how to beat this rap. After all, his RIGHTS maybe had been violated and he thought the readers of the forum would all gather around and help him fight the good fight.



Well, .................................................?

[B&TRepair]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

Oh, one last point.

Well, you see there was this pedophile who had raped and murdered a young child.

He frequented a Porche forum and he posted, stated that he DID commit the crime but he was pretty sure the cops did not do his arrest in just the pefect/legal way.

He was asking the readers of the forum for some help in how to beat this rap. After all, his RIGHTS maybe had been violated and he thought the readers of the forum would all gather around and help him fight the good fight.



Well, .................................................?

The crimes are truly unequal so the comparison is moot. Of the same officers who wrote citations that day, some went home at warp nine with a few belts in them to boot. It's the unspoken job perk known as the brass pass. The best move is to either hire a lawyer or go to court, be very polite and don't lie. Chances are good it may be slightly reduced, especially if your record shows no chronic behavior.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by dbth

#1-You cannot commit perjury unless you testify.
The 5th amendment protects oneself from self incrimination.
The accused does not have to testify , only plead not guilty.
If the state can't prove the charge , he is not guilty.

O.K., let me get this straight. You're saying that David should go to traffic court, allow the prosecution to put on the Government's case, and then sit there like a mushroom so that he doesn't perjure himself?

Yeah, David, do that. Let me know how it works out for you.

Or better yet, actually plead the fifth in traffic court. Classic.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

O.K., let me get this straight. You're saying that David should go to traffic court, allow the prosecution to put on the Government's case, and then sit there like a mushroom so that he doesn't perjure himself?

Yeah, David, do that. Let me know how it works out for you.

Or better yet, actually plead the fifth in traffic court. Classic.

Perhaps David should hire DB to represent him in his case.

Then, perhaps JUSTICE will be served.

[David N.]

Let's be civil everyone, this is only a discussion. I'm accused of breaking one rule in a set of rules. Another rule exists on how broken rules are properly detected, I believe that rule was broken as well by the cop. It just so happens an additional rule in this set of rules allows me to fight my penalty because of something like that. I think the outcome of this fight would be informative to people here, that's why I posted this topic.

I'm not claiming innocence, I'm claiming due process. I'm not trying to absolve myself of the murder of a child, I'm trying to get out of paying my insurance company excess cash for being accused of a moving violation without enough evidence. That and that alone.

A spade is just a spade.

-David

[GmanMD]

David,

You do have a rather large problem here because your ticket is for doing 90 in a 65 mph zone. That is 25 mph over the limit and a rather hefty fine and points on the your license, and possibly license suspension in some states. Now, I don't want to get into the whole fight vs. fess-up argument, but often if you go to court you may have your fine and/or citation reduced where the impact on your insurance is much less. The state is happy as they still get their money and you're somewhat happy that your liability is reduced. It may even be worth it to get a lawyer on this one.

[trube78]

not to commit felonies. I see a basic problem with being responsible and understanding that acting irresponsibly will result in someone holding you accountable. In fact, I see many parents do not teach their children about responsible behavior. (I work at a University)

I hate these speeding posts and wish they would be removed. If you decide to speed and get caught. Man up and be responsible for your behavior. You were speeding and he caught you. I guess it is easier for some folks to look at their faults in the mirror than others.