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Gelbster · 08-08-2017, 04:27 PM

"Cooking the NEW Lifters"
Now that new Lifters are only $17 instead of $60+++,why clean old ,suspect Lifters?
Some commentators(You Tube) now claim cooking/priming is potentially damaging/unnecessary for new Lifters. I am confused because new lifters come oil-filled and the package is often soaked in leaking oil.So why not replace the lost oil by soaking & cooking?
Is it possible the over-fill the tappet so the dome is so high it causes valve lift/seating problems?
Or would the excess just bleed out harmlessly on start up ? New/old Lifters are different in this respect?
Bleeding Lifters
There are vids showing INA style lifters(ignore the Harley & GM) being vacuum-bled .The author shows the stream of air bubbles rising from the small orifice in the side of the Lifter bucket. But that is just air from the bucket(?) ,not air from the Tappet.The Tappet has a check valve that would prevent any trapped air from escaping? If it did not, the ball/seat would be dirty/defective and it would never hold a full charge of oil in use.It would go soft quickly.So what is the point of bleeding NEW Lifters ? INA does not give an Instruction to do so.
Does 'cooking' bleed air from just the bucket ?How could cooking get air out of a soft Tappet ?
This is a previous version of our INA Lifter to help clarify :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCucAyf56Ik
Evaluating new and used lifters
There are credible reports of defective new INA & Porsche Genuine Lifters.see link below
There are references/videos to test rigs that identify defective(leaky) Lifters- new or old.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvEQ9vIjgy8
The critical leak point is the ball/check valve not the overflow/fill hole in the side of the bucket
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/975059-rebuilding-valve-lifters-can-it-be-done-well.html
INA installation/pumping/priming Instructions
INA do not show any cooking,or priming or filling. The video link below shows a version of the INA procedure.Go to 1.50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwTfFesA-yo
To evaluate NEW Lifters I am experimenting with simple rig that others may find helpful.
Use a 12 pt., 1/4 drive, 9mm(11/32") socket plus a 1/4" drive x hex extension. Fit in a drill press.Use a weight on the Press arm to apply a specific amount of pressure on a "solid"(but not jammed) Tappet in a Lifter for several minutes.Measure the Tappet height before/after.
See Post 61 here for a better version:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/975059-rebuilding-valve-lifters-can-it-be-done-well-4.html
To test your rig - first dismantle an old Lifter and clean(if necessary) leave the Retaining Ring off the Tappet for the test just to make it easier to remove after the test is complete.
Any Tappet that compresses more/much more quickly than the best of your sample is suspect.
Yes it is a crude ,comparative test but it is easy to replicate on many Lifters if you are methodical.
To test the rig further , select a 'soft ' Tappet. Dismantle, clean, refill both the Tappet and bucket with oil.Reassemble. Omit the little spring wire Retaining Ring. It will probably be a leaker and compress too much ,too quickly. Measure the Tappet height before/after to confirm.The amount of oil dribbling out of the fill/weep hole is unimportant.The bucket is just that - a reservoir.
Failure to pump up
One of the most likely failure points of either a New or Used Lifter is the ball seat for the check valve.If you identify this before the engine is reassembled - just clean to remove dirt/swarf.Then retest on your test rig for leakdown.Despite what you read from experts ,the INA Lifter contains 2 springs ,not 1.The spring often shown is inside the tappet and helps it expand.There is also a tiny spring under the ball seat, retained bu a cage.That is where (I think) the problem lies.There are some tight tolerances/clearances there.The slightest defect will cause leakdown.
A 'good' Lifter may fail if it can’t keep it's reservoir(the Bucket of the Lifter) full. If oil pressure is generally low or if oil supply to that part of the Lifter Carrier is obstructed.The Tappet of the oil-starved Lifter may have tested 'good' on the test rig but will tick after a few hours(?) of running.The oil will have been squeezed out of the Tappet into the partially empty reservoir(bucket). The tappet will get air in it and be soft. Until the oil pressure/supply problem is fixed, every Lifter in that location will fail .#4 is particularly vulnerable because of it's position in the oil circulation system(according to credible sources). There are claims that using a (Band-Aid?)10W-50 may help if the problem is slight Lifter Carrier bore wear or similar issues.
The same problem(with the same Lifters) affects BMW also - see M52 and M54 engines.Lots on You Tube
Lifter failure often causes Misfire codes that are misdiagnosed and lead to ineffective parts replacement. The engine cylinder corresponding to the collapsed Lifter(s) may accumulate liquid (un-burnt) gas because of low compression.This liquid gasoline may get purged into the header ?You will then see gas leakage on the header gasket
An unusually loud(but O.K.?) fuel Injector may be confused with lifter tick(see BMW vids). Confirm by interchanging with quieter injector from another location.Much easier than Camshaft removal to chase ticking Lifters!
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08-08-2017, 04:27 PM	#68
Gelbster Registered User Join Date: May 2014 Location: S.California Posts: 2,029	"Cooking the NEW Lifters" Now that new Lifters are only $17 instead of $60+++,why clean old ,suspect Lifters? Some commentators(You Tube) now claim cooking/priming is potentially damaging/unnecessary for new Lifters. I am confused because new lifters come oil-filled and the package is often soaked in leaking oil.So why not replace the lost oil by soaking & cooking? Is it possible the over-fill the tappet so the dome is so high it causes valve lift/seating problems? Or would the excess just bleed out harmlessly on start up ? New/old Lifters are different in this respect? Bleeding Lifters There are vids showing INA style lifters(ignore the Harley & GM) being vacuum-bled .The author shows the stream of air bubbles rising from the small orifice in the side of the Lifter bucket. But that is just air from the bucket(?) ,not air from the Tappet.The Tappet has a check valve that would prevent any trapped air from escaping? If it did not, the ball/seat would be dirty/defective and it would never hold a full charge of oil in use.It would go soft quickly.So what is the point of bleeding NEW Lifters ? INA does not give an Instruction to do so. Does 'cooking' bleed air from just the bucket ?How could cooking get air out of a soft Tappet ? This is a previous version of our INA Lifter to help clarify : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCucAyf56Ik Evaluating new and used lifters There are credible reports of defective new INA & Porsche Genuine Lifters.see link below There are references/videos to test rigs that identify defective(leaky) Lifters- new or old. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvEQ9vIjgy8 The critical leak point is the ball/check valve not the overflow/fill hole in the side of the bucket https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/975059-rebuilding-valve-lifters-can-it-be-done-well.html INA installation/pumping/priming Instructions INA do not show any cooking,or priming or filling. The video link below shows a version of the INA procedure.Go to 1.50. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwTfFesA-yo To evaluate NEW Lifters I am experimenting with simple rig that others may find helpful. Use a 12 pt., 1/4 drive, 9mm(11/32") socket plus a 1/4" drive x hex extension. Fit in a drill press.Use a weight on the Press arm to apply a specific amount of pressure on a "solid"(but not jammed) Tappet in a Lifter for several minutes.Measure the Tappet height before/after. See Post 61 here for a better version: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/975059-rebuilding-valve-lifters-can-it-be-done-well-4.html To test your rig - first dismantle an old Lifter and clean(if necessary) leave the Retaining Ring off the Tappet for the test just to make it easier to remove after the test is complete. Any Tappet that compresses more/much more quickly than the best of your sample is suspect. Yes it is a crude ,comparative test but it is easy to replicate on many Lifters if you are methodical. To test the rig further , select a 'soft ' Tappet. Dismantle, clean, refill both the Tappet and bucket with oil.Reassemble. Omit the little spring wire Retaining Ring. It will probably be a leaker and compress too much ,too quickly. Measure the Tappet height before/after to confirm.The amount of oil dribbling out of the fill/weep hole is unimportant.The bucket is just that - a reservoir. Failure to pump up One of the most likely failure points of either a New or Used Lifter is the ball seat for the check valve.If you identify this before the engine is reassembled - just clean to remove dirt/swarf.Then retest on your test rig for leakdown.Despite what you read from experts ,the INA Lifter contains 2 springs ,not 1.The spring often shown is inside the tappet and helps it expand.There is also a tiny spring under the ball seat, retained bu a cage.That is where (I think) the problem lies.There are some tight tolerances/clearances there.The slightest defect will cause leakdown. A 'good' Lifter may fail if it can’t keep it's reservoir(the Bucket of the Lifter) full. If oil pressure is generally low or if oil supply to that part of the Lifter Carrier is obstructed.The Tappet of the oil-starved Lifter may have tested 'good' on the test rig but will tick after a few hours(?) of running.The oil will have been squeezed out of the Tappet into the partially empty reservoir(bucket). The tappet will get air in it and be soft. Until the oil pressure/supply problem is fixed, every Lifter in that location will fail .#4 is particularly vulnerable because of it's position in the oil circulation system(according to credible sources). There are claims that using a (Band-Aid?)10W-50 may help if the problem is slight Lifter Carrier bore wear or similar issues. The same problem(with the same Lifters) affects BMW also - see M52 and M54 engines.Lots on You Tube Lifter failure often causes Misfire codes that are misdiagnosed and lead to ineffective parts replacement. The engine cylinder corresponding to the collapsed Lifter(s) may accumulate liquid (un-burnt) gas because of low compression.This liquid gasoline may get purged into the header ?You will then see gas leakage on the header gasket An unusually loud(but O.K.?) fuel Injector may be confused with lifter tick(see BMW vids). Confirm by interchanging with quieter injector from another location.Much easier than Camshaft removal to chase ticking Lifters! ________________________________________ Last edited by Gelbster; 08-16-2017 at 08:41 PM.