Non-Porsche engine swaps?
 

Is there much information available on non Porsche engine swaps for the boxster? For example many 914 owners have successfully swapped Subaru motors such as the ej205 and ej257. It seems to me that a swap of this nature would be much more cost effective than doing a 3.8 swap or a 3.4 swap with a TT kit. 450-500 whp is easily achievable with many smaller, turbo motors and the motor cost would be way less than the cost of a 3.8 or paying 20k for a twin turbo kit. I understand the fabrication for a swap would be very labor intensive and expensive but if it is being done on 914s I would think (correct me if I am wrong) it could be done in a similar fasion on a boxster.

Here is a list of motors I was considering for a high horsepower configuration.
ej207 (jdm subaru wrx sti)
ej257 (usdm STi)
ez30r (jdm legacy 6cyl non turbo)
Audi engines are another possibility but known for high maintence.
ls1?....


I know this idea probably wont go over big with many people but just wanted some feedback or thoughts from people who are more Porsche experienced than I am. Thanks.

Hi,

In the realm that anything is possible, these could be done. But, I suspect that a better match all around would be something like an RX-8 Twin Rotor RENESIS Engine. Aside from the increased available power, it's lightness would undoubtedly give the car some favorable handling characteristics as well. 'Course that would be pure Porsche blasphemy, but probably no more so than a Subie motor...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

LS1 would be awsome

Renegade hybrids makes conversion kits for 911s, 914s, 928s etc.

No boxster kit that I know of.

this is exactly what i was thinking, i have a 2.0 subie in my sand rail that puts out 230 HP to the wheels , the total cost was about $4500.00 w/ the buggy exhaust and all the fancy polished aluminum. if that motor was to go into a boxter it would be $1500.00 for the engine control, $500.00 for the tranny adaptor plate kit,$500 to $2500 for the motor and what ever motor mounts it needs. i'm not sure of the weight on the boxter motor but my 2.0 subie weighs about 320 lbs

now this is a serious topic. haven't had good posts lately, about time.

this is something we need to discuss. so what else...is it really possible, any
real savings. would it make sense....

I don't see this as feasible.

The electronics, motor mounts and trans mating alone make me shudder.

So like is this what were talking about?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-SUBARU-IMPREZA-WRX-ENGINE-MOTOR-EJ20-227HP-LOW-MILES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ007QQit emZ170060746551QQrdZ1

those subie engines can be modded to ridiculous hp. One of the drafters at my job has a 2004 WRX STi. He hooked up with a tuner in Oceanside, and got and different subie engine, that is bored out with a bigger turbo and larger intercooler. He puts 400 hp to the wheels, and his tuning is "mild" (it cost 20 grand tho :eek: ). The guy who owns the shop races STi's and has 2 that put 600 hp to the wheels.

This is using a 2.5l engine!! The guy at my office's engine is bored out to 2.65l. He is very actice on the Subie forums and he has told me several times that there some posters who talk about dropping the subie motor in boxsters. I dont know if it has been done yet tho.

I bet when all is said and done tho, you will have spent what a 3.4 or 3.6 or 3.8l carrera engine swap would cost. Not to mention that the Porsche gods would strike you dead with fireballs from hell.

As you would deserve, BTW. :troll:

I own a 2004 wrx and am somewhat active in the subaru world and used to be very active on nasioc which is the biggest subie forum. I read a thread about someone who was contemplating the swap into a boxter and that is why I decided to make this thread.

Mounting up to the trans seems like the biggest task. Thats why i suggested audi engines because I read on a 914 forum that they bolt right up to the 914 trans...

This topic needs to be explored more in depth because this could be a more economical solution to high horsepower.

Does anyone know of a good reputable shop that I could talk to and see what they think is possible?

Do you own a Boxster? by the way I dont think you will offend any one with this thread.

No i currently do not own one but I have a relative who is likely going to be selling me their low mileage 99 for a very good price.

Low mileage? You planning on it not running in the near future or just want to keep your options open?

other Porsche engine options
 

Just to throw in another curveball, how about a gt3 or gt2 cup motor? I'm not thnking of a new one, but rather a used/rebuilt race motor. There are quite a few around, and I'd gather that with a bit of searching, one could be found in useable shape for a reasonable price. The modifications to install this motor would be considerable, but no where near what it would take to use a motor from another manufacturer. The Porsche gods would save their fireballs for someone else and hopefull smile down with a twinkle in thier eyes.

mating the subaru motor to the tranny would not be a problem at all, just like i mated my subaru 2.0 turbo to a vw bus 091 tranny, i'm sure there is an adaptor plate for the 5 speed boxter tranny if not they can be made. the not so difficult part would be the motor mounts, and the difficult part '' for me anyways '' would be to make the stock temp gauge work and preventing the dash from lighting up all the warning lights

No offense but why would I want a mix of a subaru 4 cylinder engine in my Boxster? Irrespective of the top HP I MIGHT gain, I lose torque and I frankly lose the whole mystique of the car.

If I was going to trash the crap out of the car's integrity, I would simply go with a larger Porsche engine.

That's just me.

Now, if I had a 944, the Ls1 motor is in there in a flash. Now are are taling torque.

i have no clue, but i can tell you why i was thinking about it.
1)DIY 3.4 porsche $8,000.00 maybe, will it be reliable??? or do they have the same issues the 2.5,2.7 and the 3.2 do??
2) DIY supercharger $6,500.00, will it be reliable?
3) subaru conversion $5,000.00 will it be reliable? yes. will it be fast? yes.
will it still be the best looking convertible on the planet? imo yes

Ok, but keep in mind DIY supercharger can be done for between 2 and 3k. They have been proven to be reliable but please lets not get into that discussion.

i thought the sc kit was around 6k, i'll reread your sc posts

They can be found for around 2-3k on e-bay and craigs list. There is one in the classifieds section of this board but he wants way too much and will never sell it for that price.

It's incredible what engines can fit into any given car. If you've been looking around the 914 sites you know they fit all kinds of engines into those things. Heck, some guy has a jet engine in his New Beetle and actually drives the thing around.

I think the more pertinent question would be if there was a kit with engine mounts, chassis parts and transmission adapters that made it mechanically more simple. It doesn't sound like such a thing exists so there will probably be a good deal of fabrication involved.

If you had a 3 series you could buy a conversion kit for a corvette engine. Dont know if its the LS1 or LS2 or what. I think it was 10,000 for everything.

Huh???
 

A jap engine on a German quality car, thats freaking crazy! I would NEVER do that and if you have to purchase a 4 cylinder jap engine to install of a high quality German car then you should stay with the rice burner and leave the quality German "Porsche" for those that can afford to have them. Thats JUST CRAZY! No insult but damn, I cant believe I just read that post.... Very sad... :confused: :eek: :mad: :barf:

Rice burners?
 

I've ridden Japanese sport bikes for the past 20 some years. I always got a kick out of Harley riders referring to them as rice rockets or rice burners. The Japanese have managed to engineer incredible performance into machines that are ludicrously underpriced for what you get. Until last year no German company (BMW) had a sport bike that could put out horsepower numbers like the Japanese, although the Bimmer still carries a price premium of almost 50%. Bang for the buck, it's hard to beat a Lancer Evo or WRX Sti.

I hate to steer this thread off track, but I think your sense of superiority is severely misplaced. The Japanese auto manufacturers have proven their quality superiority over German, American, and whatever other country of origin on all conceivable levels.

One can certainly make an argument for the quality and value of certain Japanese autos.

Jumping from that generalization to ratrionalizing putting a 4 cyl Subaru engine in a Boxster is another thing altogether.

I would also find it interesting to see how long it might take to SELL this kind of a creation.

But hey, it is a free country so let us know how you do.

I totally agree. People who buy this type of car buy it to be a Porsche. But making the arguement based on quality or reliability is unfounded and incorrect. Just as a side note, Subaru engines are very stought units.

Hi,

I understand what you're trying to say, and I agree to a point. But, let's not forget that a good portion of Porsche's past reputation was built on Quality and Reliability.

Of course, every Marque and Model has their failings and quirks, but those associated with Modern Porsches are not the ones which people expect to see. This is especially true when one considers how many lesser, and less expensive marques consistently get these things right.

That said, I think comparing any Marque to another will always fail in some respects. Each Marque has their own unique history and engineering culture which is continually evolving and built upon when designing and producing subsequent generations or models. In a sense, they each go their own direction, and this uniqueness has often given them entry into a Market niche to begin with.

Likewise, there's little merit to pointing out flaws in another Marque as if that somehow negates, or lessens the severity, of the ones of greatest interest to us Porsche Owners...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

8-Ball
 

Interesting conversation, hit a few topics on one subject. I wrote an article in my local Porsche club magazine basically asking Porsche how a 4-door, 4-cylinder, 4-seater sedan with a trunk and styling of a shopping cart can kick our asses a the autocross and do it at half the price of our cars. It just does not make any sence. The Subaru is a heavier and taller car. If the Subaru looked as good as a Porsche I hate to say it I would buy one. I feel Porsche is missing something here and I am not sure what it is because the Boxster is awsome to drive and if it wasn't for the track I probably would have assumed I had the better car. As for the power situation it seems like a lot of work for not a lot of benifit. If you really want the car to go faster I would supercharge first for the cheaper version or buy a larger Porsche engine for your Box or just buy the Subaru.

yeah if you plan to grow a mullet ;)

I guess you have no experience with an LS-1 huh?

Screw the LS-1, just go for the LS-7 :dance:

maybe Porsche should sub-contract their engine manufacturing to Subaru??

The Honda S2000 motor or if you some how customize to have a K24 or K20 motor in there... Vtec right on your back :eek:

As someone who is in the process of selling their 05 STi I can attest to the level of quality and engineering Subaru has put into their driveline. Mine is lightly tuned and puts 320HP to the wheels and has been 100% reliable for 30k. The all wheel drive system is state of the art. The factory Brembos are the same calipers you get on an S or base 996. However, what is missing as compared to the Porsche (or generally any European sports car) experience is cache and overall build quality. I love driving my STi on the track, but it seriously annoys me when I drive it around town. The seats are horrible (they look like they're plucked from a race car but are uncomfortable and unsupportive), the interior build quality is definitly questionable, the lack of sound deadening and my loud exhaust get annoying, and every girl who smiles are you thinks you're a 17 year old high school kid with daddy's money. Obviously, I have none of these gripes with the Boxster. Is it as fast at the track. Nope. Is it so much a better driving experience everywhere else? Yup.

I am planning a 3.4 or 3.6 swap into my boxster when my factory 3.2 gets tired, and I would never ever consider putting a non Porsche motor into this car. 944, sure an LS1 is a great option, but I think that by the time you custom engineer a solution to put an EJ series motor into a Boxster its not really going to save you much money and you've just built a Frankenstein of a car.

Just my $.02. As always, your actual mileage may vary.

Patrick

fantastic idea, just the wrong time
 

Old 944s can be had for (granted, a large amount of) pocket change, so it's cheap enough for people to experiment on. Therefore there is a lot of engine transplant options out there.

986 is still relatively pricey. People who buy these don't intend to modify them in such drastic ways as to stick a non-Porsche engine in them. I have no doubt this will happen when 986s are as old and cheap as the 944s are now. But this seems a long time away. The 986 still looks good, and so you want to stick a more powerful engine in it. But the fact that it still looks good is also the reason they are still relatively pricey. By the time its value drops such that people can afford to R&D on them, they are no longer desirable machines - which is why the value dropped in the first place. It's a bit of a dilemma.

Having said that, I personally have no quarrels with non-Porsche engines in Porsches. As long as it can be considered an upgrade in real terms. Japanese cars are far more superior to European cars in all respects but styling, IMO. Dollar for dollar, there is no comparison. This may have been due to the sheer quantity of cars they manufacture. This provides them with experience many European automakers don't have. Ferraris and Lamborghinis and Maseratis and what not, are notorious for "premature" engine failures on their road going cars. Porsches with its RMS issues on the 996/986 series engines is also an example of low volume manufacturing. If Porsche sold as many cars as Toyota, this problem would have been picked up within a year and fixed for the subsequent years. Of course, one may argue that if Porsche is as popular as Toyota, you wouldn't buy one, or it would lose it's niche appeal, etc. But that's topic for another conversation. Also, those that site F1 as example that Ferrari engines are more reliable than Toyota need to understand that Ferrari has been making more F1 cars than Toyota - again, a volume = experience thing.

In terms of the idea itself, I think putting a turbo boxer engine into another boxer engined car is a great idea. Turbo engines also have more torque than NA engines. Heck, my Mazda MX6 2.2T from 1989 has a lot more torque than my Boxster! But again, who is going to donate their car to R&D? Not many, you will find. It's just pricey to play with at this point for most. But if you can get your hands on a dirt cheap one - maybe sold because it's engine is failing, then by all means go ahead. I know I would. Except here in Australia, even the oldest zero option vanilla Boxster still goes for around $45000AUD...

Just my $0.02.

I talked to someone over at renegade hybrids in Las Vegas and they are working on a ej2xx conversion kit for the boxster. I was told that the project has not begun yet but they have a vehicle ready. They do lots of work with 914s and recently completed a ls1 swap into a 911! They do good work so if the kit is produced im sure it will be awesome. I doubt it will be done anytime soon but when it is I will try to post more information.

Been Boxstering for 8 years and going to the local Porsche events.

Over the years, on the 914, I have seen everything from a rubber band to a Chevy V8 shoved in the engine compartment.

The Boxster has been around for 10 years. It is the next 914.

Now about that Corvette engine....

I agree the boxster will be the future 914.


There will always be purists, of which I'm not. I'd "bastardize" my box anyday if it gave me more power and kept that glorious music playing in the back.


The PERFECT transplant is the Buick GN TT. I've given it alot of thought. The most daunting part is keeping all nice Pcar electronics/creature comforts intact. Tranny adapter plate is not that hard I don't think. GN will easily pump 600hp without sneezing, with just bolt ons. Built GN's under $10k make over 1000 hp. The real problem would be overpowering the rest of the Pcar drivetrain, i.e., keeping the GN underpowered.


The essential layout is very close. If my box breaks, that's what I'll explore. I day dream of more power daily, and I want it for around 8k. No way is it worth it to me for a 3.4, 3.6, 3.8 transplant and pay silly money for it. But hey that's just me...


As it is, I feel the box is slightly underpowered especially considering 996 is making 8hp/liter more for no good reason. I feel a little bit cheated I didn't get my *missing* 25hp or so.

600+ hp on a box just seems insane. Would this be on a daily driver?
I am lookin to do 450 or so on pump and 500 + on race gas.
driveshaft reinforcement may be needed.