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-   -   Driver Window not Dropping (http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7008)

no_substitute 08-09-2006 05:24 AM

Driver Window not Dropping
 
New to this forum, look forward to the sharing of info. First off, I am having a problem with my driver's side window. Window just does not drop enough when trying to open the door. I have heard many reasons as to why and how this may occur with no real conclusive results. The microswitches are working (the window jiggles down a little when you engage the microswitch without opening the door and goes up when you release the handle), the window works under normal switch opeation and top operation, the window can be pushed down to correct positon to close door and once shut the window moves up. - Thanks in Advance!!!

no_substitute 08-09-2006 06:04 AM

2000 Boxster S with 22K
 
2000 Boxster S with 22K

RandallNeighbour 08-09-2006 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_substitute
I have heard many reasons as to why and how this may occur with no real conclusive results.

The conjecture (lots of opinions on your issue) comes from the many components inside the door and all that the window does aside from go up and down when you want to get your cheeseburger and fries (that's usually why I put my driver's window down anyway!)

However, you've done a good job describing your problem. The console switch works, as does the microswitch in the door handle, and the motor works because you wrote that the window does function somewhat. This leaves the regulator, which is most probably your issue.

Another way to determine if the window regulator is worn out is to have a friend sit in your car and raise and lower the window with you standing outside looking at the distance between the rubber gasket and the glass at the front of the window and the back of the window when being raised. If the front or rear of the glass (front being closest to your front bumper and rear being closest to your rear bumper) is rising lopsided or crooked, your regulator has worn to the point of not working well.

A new regulator will set you back $150 or so (Sunset Imports, Oregon) and about 2 hours labor for a first-timer. I have not done this repair myself, but my Bentley manual shows how to do it and it does not look complicated. My mechanic did mine with some other work and only charged me an hour's labor to do it, but he does about half a dozen a week at his dealership job so he does it in his sleep.

no_substitute 08-09-2006 06:51 AM

Mystery Piece of plastic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

Another way to determine if the window regulator is worn out is to have a friend sit in your car and raise and lower the window with you standing outside looking at the distance between the rubber gasket and the glass at the front of the window and the back of the window when being raised. If the front or rear of the glass (front being closest to your front bumper and rear being closest to your rear bumper) is rising lopsided or crooked, your regulator has worn to the point of not working well.

The window raises up and down with the window button normally. There appears to be no lopsided effect. When I push the window down to it normal drop postion and close the door, it raises to the correct position. The only part of the window not functioning correctly is the drop.
I have heard about some little white plastic piece inside the door that has a tendency to fail by developing a fracture. Have you heard about this mystery piece?

RandallNeighbour 08-09-2006 07:14 AM

Ah, the small drop in the window when the door is opened is what's wrong, right? This could still be your regulator or the microswitch.

I don't know about any small plastic piece, but I'm sure there's a handful in the works inside your door.

I think your first course of action would be to remove the door panel for a visual inspection.

MNBoxster 08-09-2006 11:22 AM

Hi,

You need to Standardize your windows. Have you had any work done, disconnected the battery or such?

To standardize the windows you:
  • 1. Switch ignition on.
    2. Open door window completely by continuously actuating the power window operating button, and then close window. Press power window button until the window is closed and is switched off by the blockage detection function of the power window motor. Standardisation is then completed.

Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

no_substitute 08-10-2006 04:28 AM

No Resolve
 
Yea, Thanks Jim - I have tried this step repeatedly with no resolve.

Strawfordt 08-10-2006 01:02 PM

Okay, I have been in the window regulator manufaturing business for about 13 years. I've been mostly dealing with North American domestic regulators.

Is this a sudden problem or one that has existed for ever?

If this has suddenly occurred here's what I can recommend you to do.

You will need to remove the door trim panel to allow you to see inside the door
The window regulator should be a 2 rail, cable and drum type. The motor will have a plastic drum housing that contains the cable drum that winds and unwinds the cable. The cable will feed into the drum housing in two places that will be approx. 180 degrees apart from each other. If you can see where the cable is fed into the drum housing you should also see that there are 2 springs that take up the cable slack. When you change direction you will see one side of the cable collapsing the spring and the other side of the cable having the spring move to extension. This is done to take up the natural slack and / or stretching of the cable. I suspect that you will see the side with the spring extension being > 25mm from the housing. BTW when you reverse your window the springs will switch from extension to compression and vice versa.

If you are seeing excessive spring extension then in all likelyhood the cable has either come off of one of the pullies, a plastic end piece has failed on one of the conduit ends or the cable assembly was built to long to begin with. For what ever reason what you are describing is an excess of free cable causing the cable drum to wind cable without causing the glass to move.

The glass drop function in the window regulator and the express up function are both controlled with a logic controller and hall effect sensors in the motor that send a signal to the controller allowing the controller to count the rotations of the motor armature. If you can detect time and speed of the motor then you should know position.

If you still have problems let me know. In the meantime i'll try to get you a picture of a Box W/R to highlite the areas I'd be looking at.

denverpete 08-10-2006 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strawfordt
The glass drop function in the window regulator and the express up function are both controlled with a logic controller and hall effect sensors in the motor that send a signal to the controller allowing the controller to count the rotations of the motor armature. If you can detect time and speed of the motor then you should know position.

Ahhh.... But you cannot simultaneously know an objects position AND momentum - Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle

YES! I got to use quantum physics today.... I think I'm going home now....

no_substitute 08-10-2006 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strawfordt
Is this a sudden problem or one that has existed for ever?

If this has suddenly occurred here's what I can recommend you to do.

This happened very suddenly.
The detailed information about how the window regulator works, is this all window regulators or is this specific to our Boxster window regulators?

RandallNeighbour 08-11-2006 05:57 AM

Strawfordt: Window regulators in the 996 and 986 are evidently not made to the highest standards in the areas of durability. I've replaced my passenger side W/R, and I suspect a previous owner replaced the driver's side.

Seminole_Boxster 08-11-2006 12:09 PM

Did you replace the regulator yourself or have a professional do the work? If self, how long did it take? Thanks.

RandallNeighbour 08-11-2006 12:42 PM

My mechanic did it, but next time one of them goes out, I'll do it myself... my Bentley manual in hand. After all, I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night!

98Boxster98 08-11-2006 05:41 PM

This is a good reference for the 986 DIYers:

http://www.bombaydigital.com/boxster/projects/window/

Strawfordt 08-13-2006 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denverpete
Ahhh.... But you cannot simultaneously know an objects position AND momentum - Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle

YES! I got to use quantum physics today.... I think I'm going home now....


Ahhhh... right you are. However, i said speed not momentum. The controller counts the time between the revolutions of the motor armature and determines speed.

For the record this is a general description of anti pinch window regulator technology.

I have never workedd on a Porsche project. I have direct experience with Fiat, Alfa, Lancia, Opel, GM, Ford, DCX & Honda. The technology for cable and drum W/R's is basically the same from all parts OEM's. Especially true if you have to control positon of the regulator. There are some other anti pinch technologies but they are not that common.

Strawfordt 08-13-2006 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour
Strawfordt: Window regulators in the 996 and 986 are evidently not made to the highest standards in the areas of durability. I've replaced my passenger side W/R, and I suspect a previous owner replaced the driver's side.

Because of the glass drop feature during door openings and closings, the regulators typically see a lot of use. a normal front door system without the galss drop feature is designed for 25,000 full up and full down cycles. Other features of the vehicle tied to door opening and closing are requiring 100,000 + cycles before failure.

By the looking at the system design. I'd say that the part is manufactured by a best in class supplier. Too bad the class couldn't be better.

Tom

denverpete 08-13-2006 10:39 AM

I just had the driver's side window replaced and I noticed that it doesn't go up far enough. Maybe needs another 1/4 inch or so.

Is there a simple adjustment to this or will they need to take off the door panel.

I tried the "standardization" listed by MNBoxster and that didn't do anything.

slithern 09-07-2006 11:01 AM

Did you ever get a solution to your window problem? I had the exact same problem and took it to the dealer. They said Window Regulator and fixed it. $604 mostly covered by my extended warranty.

jeffsquire 09-09-2006 08:14 AM

FOr some reason the exact same thing happened to my driver's side window today. THe window won't drop. passenger side works. When I open the door, I can hear the driver's side window wanting to drop but it wont.
The window operates normally otherwise. I'll try standardization but I want to clear up a few things.

FROM MNBoxster<<< 2. Open door window completely by continuously actuating the power window operating button, and then close window.

When you say "continuously actuating" do you mean press and hold the power window button on the center console?

<< Press power window button until the window is closed and is switched off by the blockage detection function of the power window motor. Standardisation is then completed.[/list]

What is the blockage detection function? This term is not in my manual.

clb0099 11-19-2006 02:53 PM

Driver's side Window
 
Ok... Here it goes. The window on the driver's side neither goes up/down by the switch at all. At this point it's in the up position but the lip of the top of the window does not allow it to close air tight. So this makes for a gap which air can get into. So here is my question is it the regulator ,motor, or the switch. I hear some kind of noise when I press the window switch up/down but that is it. Please some one shed a little on this. The boxster is a 1997. I read the instructions on how to replace the regulator but how do i know what is broke on it. Please any advice would be great

Strawfordt 11-19-2006 09:48 PM

Non Functional window Reg.
 
What type of noise do you hear and does the glass move at all?

Does the W/R make a grinding noise or does it just hum?

Try to push and raise the glass down by hand. It should not move more than 8 or so millimeters. If it moves alot you've got a broken cable. If it does not move you may have a jammed cable or a dead motor.

clb0099 11-20-2006 03:25 PM

sound
 
well here is the thing there was a sound at one time but now when i hit the window switch i get no noise. I can not push the window down at all. I checked to see if it was the switch by swapping the plug for the passenger window but the window still wouldn't go down. i ordered a window regulator and motor. What are the chance that it's the motor? It's a 1997 porsche boxster with 93k.. when i called the place where i got the motor and regualtor he said very rare for the motor to go out. So please any advice to the updated info would be greatly valued
I also can't mannually push down the window it seems like a rock.

Strawfordt 11-20-2006 04:30 PM

Glass Movement
 
Can you lift the glass at all?

djomlas 11-20-2006 04:36 PM

i had similar problem, it ended up being the regulator only. cost me $200 even with installation. ther was no way i was gonn do that myself in 30 degree chicago weather at that time

clb0099 11-20-2006 06:41 PM

no movement with the window. I can not move it all with the switch or by hand

clb0099 11-20-2006 08:44 PM

just so i explain it right the window right now is closed. The top of the window will not tuck under the rubber gasket on the hard top. When i press the switch nothing happens and if i tried to push window down manually nothing happened. It won't move at all. My question is if i am going to change the regulator or motor how do i get the window down to access the bolts i need to get to ? I am figuring it is my regulator that is burnt out. At this point I will wait for more info. I am trying to be as clear as possible . Thank you for your help

clb0099 11-21-2006 03:47 PM

Power Window Relay
 
Can someone tell where is the relay for the power windows. Also is there more then one relay for both windows. What I mean is there seperate relay for left/side windows. Pictures would be great

Tool Pants 11-21-2006 05:53 PM

There is no relay(s) for the power windows.

clb0099 11-22-2006 06:55 AM

Window motor/Regulator
 
So the only way to see what is dead would be to take it apart. Does anyone know if there is any other way to test if the motor is still good. Thank you for the answer about the window relay. Also how do i get the window down to access the bolts on the clamps holding the glass. Is there some kind of trick. I have read the window project but do not see anything about if your window is stuck in the up position.

clb0099 11-30-2006 08:31 PM

Update
 
Well i went ahead and bought the regulator / motor installed in and nothing works still. Seems like no power going to the window. I am so confused since i check the fuse ad people are saying there is no relay for the windows. My passenger window is working fine. Anyone have an idea what it could be? I checked the plug in the box under the seat it seems to b plugged in . There is only one plug i can feel . Please help me out alittle.

oversteerdawg 01-08-2007 11:49 AM

I have a similar problem. However, my door window operated normally when opening the door. It just doesn't lower the window quite enough to clear the top frame when I go to close it. It lowers a bit, but not enough to clear. It bangs into the top frame every time I close the door with the window up. Is this the same issue as everyone else?

RandallNeighbour 01-08-2007 11:59 AM

oversteerdawg: You are describing classic regulator wear. It either stops dropping that 1/4 inch, drops at the front or the back but not both, won't raise after it drops, or the window just won't go all the way up or all the way down.

RandallNeighbour 01-08-2007 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clb0099
Well i went ahead and bought the regulator / motor installed in and nothing works still. Seems like no power going to the window. I am so confused since i check the fuse ad people are saying there is no relay for the windows. My passenger window is working fine. Anyone have an idea what it could be? I checked the plug in the box under the seat it seems to b plugged in . There is only one plug i can feel . Please help me out alittle.

If you haven't gotten this problem solved yet, it could be the window switch in the center console. They do wear out eventually.

big trouts 01-08-2007 12:45 PM

Window Dip
 
I had the same problem (2002-base) but have an extended warranty through Momentum Porsche here in Houston- they replaced the door switch and also the regulator. Solved the problem.

Big Trouts

RandallNeighbour 01-08-2007 01:15 PM

Big Trouts: Glad to hear of another boxster owner in Houston on this forum. keep an eye out for a new thread I'm about to start about a boxster meet in two weeks!

Will 01-08-2007 01:48 PM

Boxster Meet
 
Keep me posted too RN, I'm up for a drive. -Will

f_laurens 01-03-2008 01:09 PM

Did you fix the problem oversteerdawg?
 
I'm just wondering,
is that the regulator problem?
anyone please help me solve this problem.
thanks.

jeepdad 02-13-2017 10:10 AM

I'm reviving this ancient thread because there's so much information here to read and I'm kind of stuck with my 986 window problem. I replaced my battery last weekend, and afterwards the driver's window is acting a tad squirrely. The window goes up and down fine, but when I shut the door from the outside the window doesn't drop quite far enough -- making contact with the top frame. As a result, the door doesn't close properly.

The window drops as it should (the drop-down feature as you open/close the door) but as I shut the door the window pops back to its home position before the door is closed. It's as if the timing is off or something. Is the a symptom of the faulty regulator? It's just odd that it all started happening when the battery was replaced. (Also, for some reason by windshield washer pump stopped working).

navair 02-14-2017 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepdad (Post 526926)
I'm reviving this ancient thread because there's so much information here to read and I'm kind of stuck with my 986 window problem. I replaced my battery last weekend, and afterwards the driver's window is acting a tad squirrely. The window goes up and down fine, but when I shut the door from the outside the window doesn't drop quite far enough -- making contact with the top frame. As a result, the door doesn't close properly.

The window drops as it should (the drop-down feature as you open/close the door) but as I shut the door the window pops back to its home position before the door is closed. It's as if the timing is off or something. Is the a symptom of the faulty regulator? It's just odd that it all started happening when the battery was replaced. (Also, for some reason by windshield washer pump stopped working).

Sounds like the door lock or inner handle micro switch. This happened to me and it was the door lock unit. In contrast, when my regulator went out (removed I found lots of slack from wear), it wouldn't drop enough opening or closing.

All this before 80K miles :mad:

Anker 02-14-2017 12:04 PM

Did you go through the window reset procedure? Lower window, then raise and hold for several seconds after it has reached the top position. This lets the window controller know where the top window position is.


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