Engine Oil for 2001 986
 

I have been using Mobil 1 10/40 M Formula for my base 986, I live in the Central Valley of California, cold weather isn't a problem here. And no, I have not replaced the IMS and have had no signs of trouble on a car with 42K Miles.

Can I use 0/40 M Formula and not cause myself any additional risk?

Thanks

The only additional risk is not changing the oil regularly.

Not a problem, gets new blood every 3000 to 4000 miles. I like to keep a short leash on checking the filter for any metal shavings (none so far, thank God)

Hi.

What's the reason for not sticking with the 10W40? Is it just getting harder to find?

I also live in California and since it never gets below ~20 deg 0W-40 is not required. I ran M1 0W-40 for one change and did not like the startup clatter. 5W-40 or 10W-40 from now on.

With Mobil 1 last time I checked the Porsche oil is 0W-40 European Formula. "Formula M" in contrast describes oil meant for Mercedes diesels.

In any event, the oil should include "Meets Porsche A40" printed on the container.

In addition, there is zero advantage to 10W-40 versus 0W-40 in any conditions.

You might as well be saying, "Zero is a better number than Ten." unless you have facts to back it up or personal experience to quantify it. Not saying you are wrong, just that I see no basis for your statement.

Oh then try the inverse. Since I live where the temps I drive in are 50 to 100 deg f. there is zero advantage to running 0W anything. In fact my Owners manual states 5W-40, 10W-40 and 15W-40 are recommended.

However If you read Lubrizols ( major developers of Viscosity Modifiers)papers on the subject you will find that the 0W oils start with a 10 or less viscosity base stock, then through the use of long chain polymeric modifiers increase the viscosity to 30W 0r 40W. Since there is the potential that the molecular chains can be sheared and reduce the oil viscosity and since I drive in a lot of 90 degree temps, I choose to have a higher viscosity base stock to begin with.

I attempted to not start another oil war by saying the oil is not REQUIRED and only related my experience with 0W-40.

I'll add a few links for some reading.

A simple primer:

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1327/viscosity-index-improvers

Link to Lubrizol

http://hddeo.com/ViscosityModifierPart2.html

There is certainly much info on the subject eg Bob's the Oil Guy. I don't profess to be the authority, I just don't follow the crowd. I do my own research and use my best judgement. YMMV

Okay, I think I am totally confused. I was curious because I was running Porsche spec'd 10/40W Mobil 1. Now Walmart is selling 0/40W Mobil 1 (Porsche spec'd) for a heck of a price (5 gal for $22.58, okay I'm a cheap bastardo always looking for a deal). My oil is changed every 3 to 4K miles. So with winter approaching (if you want to call it winter in California) I thought getting an oil that gets less thick as it cools, should I really be that concerned.

So, should I be a cheap bastardo under my particular circumstances ?

These are my opinions only! The oil commercials are somewhat misleading when they state 0 viscosity oil gets there quicker on startup. Let me throw this out there. The oil pump in your engine is a POSITIVE DISPLACEMENT gear pump, hence the need for an oil pressure relief valve. This means that for each revolution of the pump a precise volume is moved unless there is blockage, then the relief valve opens preventing overpressure and damage. This also means that any viscosity oil that can flow without the relief valve opening will arrive at the exact same time. Since we live in temps where the relief valve is not likely to open IMO 0W is not REQUIRED, If you wish to run it is also ok. Now if you live where you're starting your car @ 0 and below then it is required.

What you should really be thinking about is anoil's flim strength and a given product's ability to stand up to high temperature/high shear conditions without falling out of grade. Then the differences between a 0W and 10W-anything become much more obvious, regardless of the minimum ambient temperatures.

So for an idiot like me, am I good with the 0/40W Mobil 1 Porsche spec'd earl?

You are an excellent candidate for Porsche A40 approved Mobil 5W50.

Depends upon what you want. We do not use any 0W-40 M1, and have not for many years now. The are much better oils available now that offer far superior engine protction. We also do not use any 0W-anything oils due to low film strength issues inherent to zero weight oils, regardless of the manufacturer, and stopped using Mobil 1 products completely not long after Exxon acquired them and started reformulating the line.

What you have blundered into is an area where there are strong opinions and even a few based on facts. There are forums devoted to the subject (like this one) and, even after hundreds of postings, still differing opinions.

There are folks whose experience inside the M96 engine exceeds 1,000 that don't use any Mobile product. There are tens of thousands of P-car owners who do. An oil developed with Porsche is mind is Joe Gibbs DT40. May be tough to get though depending on where you live.

W is for Winter
 

I can't believe that people are still getting this wrong. The viscosity of an oil at operating temperature is always the higher number. The 5W or 0W is only the winter rating or viscosity as 0 degrees Celsius. Even youtube car "experts" get this wrong.

ALL oils are thicker when cold, though ideally they should be a consistent viscosity at any temperature.

This is true with conventional oil, but synthetic base oils are inherently multi-grade and don't need friction modifiers (link to reference)

Bottom line is look at the back of the bottle for the Porsche A40 spec. If it's there, you are good to go, otherwise use at your own risk. Note that formulations change all the time, so oils previously having the Porsche A40 rating may no longer be approved. For example, the Mobil1 15W50 oil which was Porsche A40 rated a couple months ago is no longer approved in favor of the new 5W50 oil. There are no 10W40 oils that are on the Porsche approved list.

Good to know, thanks.

Are there any particular brands you do suggest and weight? Like I said I have a 2001 Base with 43K miles and not replaced the IMS. I live in California and we have very mild winters (that is even a stretch, rarely hits freezing, and I actually rarely drive it in the winter, only on trips to the coast). Appreciate any help on this matter.

Very interesting, thanks for the input. What a confusing subject on what seems to be a straight forward issue.

Salvation....
 

...lies within:

https://www.amazon.com/Joe-Gibbs-Driven-Racing-Synthetic/dp/B0095FBP5U

Motul 8100 excess 5w-40 is another great oil to use

On amazon ~ $150 for 4 x 5 liter bottles delivered

How does Royal Purple rate?

I would not go any lighter than a 5W-40, prefering a 10W-40 in warm climates due to improved film strenghts. I would also focus on ZDDP content.

There are several brands worth looking at, in cluding Joe Gibbs, Motul, Castrol, and even some of the Shell Rotella's.

Not a fan.....

JFP, I thought the Shell Rotella Full Synthetic is just for Diesel Engines, is that correct?

Yes. Many diesel oils are very high temp/high shear resistant Group IV oils, with very high ZDDP levels because they do not use cats.

Sorry for sounding like an idiot, but should I use Rotella in my 986 or not? Because I thought you were recommending that I use Rotella T6 Full Synthetic 5/40W

Sorry to bug you but I am due for my next oil change and I just want to get it right.

Thank you

Yes, you can use the Rotella T6. You could also use Joe Gibbs DT40, which is another excellent choice.

Thank you so much for the info:cheers:

Just ordered my JG DT40 from Amazon.

I have my supply of DT40 and NAPA Gold 1042 filter for my pre-hibernation oil change.
Found that the local NAPA Auto Parts can get the stuff for pretty much what I paid when I was in Bristol last summer.

Unless you do a 200-400 mile engine flush with Joe Gibbs BR30, you won't see any advantages of the DT40 till after your 2nd or 3rd oil change. DT40 just fights way too much with other oil's additive package. Especially Mobil's. The developer of this oil (Luke Speed of Joe Gibbs, and Jake Raby of Flat Six Innovations) will also tell you the same.

The best UOA's I've seen on my water cooled Porsches have come from Mobil 5W50. Second best was Red Line 5W40. I saw no better UOA's from DT40 than I did from Mobil 0W40. This is gleaned from over 100,000 miles and about 15 oil changes.

For the IMS geeks among you who follow ED the ex-Timken guy - he is in favor of an xW-50 oil because of load/shear/heat on the IMSB. It may be that the JGDT40 additive package offers the same benefits at a lower (40) number?
But then there is the cylinder bore scoring+cold climate issue to consider.http://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/904760-scored-cylinder-failure-for-your-996-y-or-n-tell-us-yr-996-mk1-or-mk2.html
So the best answer may be climate-specific with the hot climate owners having the easiest choices -JGDT40 or 10w-50 or 5W-50 if you take the risk of abandoning the M96-optimized additive package in JGDT40.Foaming is another issue.... it gets complicated

:D –> just another oil thread on the internet. :D

Has somebody proven data on oil recommendations over 50.000 / 100.000 / 200.000 miles including
- climate conditions
- driving profile (street, daily driver, garage queen, short distance, racing…)
- additives
- viscosity
- HTHS
- oil change interval incl. oil filter
- oil filter quality
- fail rate
- cause for failure

I personally don't know somebody with that data.

And…

maybe short distances means a distance of 10 miles in the US, but 1 mile or less in Germany…

maybe racing means to drive more than 55 mp/h and a racing on a parking lot course in the US, but full speed over 1 hour on a german Autobahn or 10 laps on the Nürburgring.

maybe there are a lot of causes why these engines can fail. IMS is only one. Also it depends what year the engine is, because there are some technical differences over the years.

maybe ZDDP will help your engine. But shurely any amount of ZDDP will also harm your catalytic converters. Maybe this isn't that bad in the US/Canada because you have 4 catalytic converters (800 cells per cylinder bank) but maybe it's different in Germany/ROW, where you have 2 catalytic converters (400 cells per cylinder bank) to reach emission controls.

maybe some people have an personal interest in selling some products.

So a lot of maybe –****and i'm shure there is a lot more maybe… ;)

Personally i go with:
- yearly oil and filter change (i drive less than 2.000 miles p.a.)
- full synthetic oil
- maximum HTHS
- viscosity that fits climate and driving profile
- no ZDDP or additional additives
- warming up the engine under low load for min. 10-15 miles
- using a standard thermostat
- keeping radiators clean and having an eye on water pump, thermostat…

Personal observation: since using a 5W oil there is only a minimal amount of engine oil between engine and transmission.

And: if the engine fails it fails. ;)

Regards, Markus

Okay, now y'all are just screwing with me, LOL!

I'm going with the Gibbs 5/40 (since it is on the way from Amazon).

My car has 43K miles and has shown no signs of metal shavings in it's earl filters. I change earl every 3K and inspect filter meticulously. So far so good, fingers crossed. I don't run around town in the vehicle and only take it out for trips to Yosemite, Lake Tahoe and the coast with wifey. So short little bursts around town never occur, so the low miles on a 2001 are not an accurate indication of how the miles have been absorbed on this vehicle (the garage queen theory of IMS worries).

Slate,
Nobody who really knows the M96 mechanically will ever have a word of criticism for you using JGDT40.

I do appreciate the interest and advice that I have received from everyone.:cheers:

What's the oil change interval for DT40?

5,000 miles

JG is in the house. And so is JD:p

I pulled this from Rennlist, a post by Jake Raby. Maybe just hype but I don't think so:

It has my name right on the label.. Its used in all of our engines and we use nothing else.

I never wanted it released to the public, but it was in March of 2012, before that we developed and hoarded it (not advertised) for our engines. Lake Speed from JGR, Charles Navarro of LN and I have developed this oil from scratch ONLY based upon the M96 engine as our test subject.

I have never seen a UOA from the DT40 with less than 1250PPM, I have hundreds of UOAs from our engines using this oil in my ledger.
__________________
Jake Raby
Flat 6 Innovations
Inventor of the IMS Solution
US Patent # 8,992,089 B2


So if this earl was developed based upon the M96 engine, I have to feel pretty good about using this earl in my Boxster:p

Okay, exactly what brand and weight of oil are we talking about here?