Blown Engine Questions

[Frank]

Hi,
I have a thread about my blown engine at http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3407 .I have a few questions now regarding what my mechanic is telling me.

The mechanic claims to have found 2 gallons of antifreeze in my crankcase when he drained the oil.It took him 6 weeks to tell me this after pulling engine from car.He did not drain the oil first and tell me before pulling the engine.Now,I am looking at a $9000 for installation of a rebuilt engine.According to him,if we did do the headgasket,the engine would seeze up in 10 seconds becouse the bearings are soft and would have absorbed the antifreeze.

Any ideas??? Opinion??? Help???

Frank:

Your situation sucks. I feel sorry for you. I think you have a quack mechanic. I am a firm believer that "quality never cost more" and "poor quality will cost you more"!

I think when you started this thread, you should have taken your car to a quality repair facility, like one of the multiple Porsche dealers in your great state of New Jersey.

Part of your "costs" the past 6 weeks have been:

frustration
your valuable time
lack of driving your new car
possibly a more expensive repair bill due to waiting

...just to name a few.

Next time don't let your freaking cousin drive your car. Have him practive on another family members car.

Have you asked him to cough-up $4,500 yet?....this is his share of the bill!

I hope you are mobile soon!

[Brucelee]

Sounds like you need a PROFESSIONAL second opinion. In these cases, we cannot help you (as much as we would like to).

Find a pro and ask him your options. The diagnosis sounds pretty shaky to me.

Good luck!

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

It would be wise to consult another Service Shop or a Dealer, to compare diagnoses, prices and any alternatives.

But, if you had a headgasket leak, it is likely that coolant contaminated the oil system. Ethylene Glycol, Water and Oil will emulsify into a Gooey Mayonaise. This is definitely a problem. The main two being that you may clog the oil galleries and/or risk Hydro-Locking the engine, as one poster somewhat alluded to.

So far as the bearings being soft and absorbing the mix, I do not see how that is possible. Bearing shells are soft, in fact, they're usually a laminate of soft metals such as Lead, Copper and Brass on a Steel backing. This is so when there is Metal-to-Metal contact with the Journal Shells, Big-End Bearing Shells and the Crankshaft (such as immediately upon start-up), the soft metal of the bearing shells do not score the Crankshaft and in fact provide some level of Dry Lubrication to it until the Oil is pressurized sufficiently to 'Float' the Crankshaft.

But, I have never known any of these Metals to be water absorbant. In fact, Motor Oil normally absorbs and contains water (which is a natural Combustion by-product) and it's not unusual for the oil to contain as much as 2% water just prior to being changed, so the bearings do have some contact with it anyway.

That said, a much higher concentration of water or water/glycol could cause the Steel backing of the bearing shells to corrode and cause the soft metal laminates to separate from it, which would be bad. The only sure way to assess the level of damage, and to clean the oil galleries, is to disassemble the motor. I am not so familiar with the M96 engine in the Boxster, and so do not know if other methods are possible, although I suspect removing the Sump Pan would allow you to visually inspect the Journals and Shells for corrosion and possibly give access to the Oil Galleries as well.

But, I do have extensive experience rebuilding Lotus 910 Engines in Esprits (I've rebuilt 10 of them, including my own), Datsun L-24, L-26 and L-28 Engines and the 1.3L VW engine in my Formula Vee and have come across this issue with several of them. The first, we (owner and I) totally disassembled the motor, cleaned the oil galleries and found some corrosion as I mentioned above. We ended up doing a full rebuild to it.

Subsequently, another friend's Esprit had a minor headgasket leak (noted by the presence of Mayonaise on the Dipstick). At his insistence, we only replaced the headgasket and flushed 2 fills of fresh oil through his system, running each for 300 and 200 miles respectively. The second batch came out virtually clean. We refilled it and to date, the owner has put 8,000 trouble-free miles on it. But, it was a risk, never having visually determined the degree of corrosion which may have taken place, but one which the owner chose to assume (I wouldn't have).

Back to your issue. First, I lack confidence in your Mechanic for not checking the oil until this late date, especially when the Headgasket was suspect. It should have been at least the second thing he checked, perhaps after a Leakdown or Coolant System Pressure Tests. Second, giving him the benefit of the doubt, he may just be poor at explaining the bearing issue. If not, it's another sign that he isn't so knowledgeable. Both of these things combined would have me looking for another Service Shop to do the work. Finally, $9k for a motor rebuild may, or may not, be the going rate in your area. But new or reconditioned Boxster Engines can be had for as little as $5k (plus installation). It's surprising that he didn't offer this alternative to you, but something you might consider nonetheless. Good Luck!

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

[Brucelee]

To add to Jim's last point, I believe a newly reconditoned engine direct from Porsche with warranty can be had for under 5K.

Beware of your mechanic!

[Pablito]

Frank...I believe you have a cracked engine block , when coolant is found in the engine oil usually means that there is a leak from one of the chambers that lubricates the engine to one of the passages that cools the engine with coolant (or antigel for that matter) like from one of the piston walls.

I agree with the above explanation in the fact that metals can't "absorb" coolant, however if you have to replace the engine block, might as well get the rest of the trimmings new as well, you'll definitely feel better knowing your bottom end is up to par.

[Frank]

I appreciates everyones help.I am still decideing what is to be done.

I spoke with a guy my dad knows who restores old porsches to brand new condition and he said that the amount of smoke I got is normal and the atifreeze found in the oil does not imply anything cracked as that is a normal amount to get sucked in at roughly 5000 rpms.

I am thinking my best option may be to tell him to put the car back together the way it was and go buy a newer lower mile boxster.

How much do you think I could sell it for?It has 85000 mile and is in good condition
with a blown head gasket but may or may not need a new engine.It has a 6 disk changer,sport package,and tiptronic tranny that shifts like brand new.I was hoping for $14,000 to 15,000 . Is that reasonable,to high, to low???

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Frank

I appreciates everyones help.I am still decideing what is to be done.

I spoke with a guy my dad knows who restores old porsches to brand new condition and he said that the amount of smoke I got is normal and the atifreeze found in the oil does not imply anything cracked as that is a normal amount to get sucked in at roughly 5000 rpms.

I am thinking my best option may be to tell him to put the car back together the way it was and go buy a newer lower mile boxster.

How much do you think I could sell it for?It has 85000 mile and is in good condition
with a blown head gasket but may or may not need a new engine.It has a 6 disk changer,sport package,and tiptronic tranny that shifts like brand new.I was hoping for $14,000 to 15,000 . Is that reasonable,to high, to low???

Hi,

Your resale is tough to gauge not knowing the MY of the car.

I think you may have heard your Dad's friend wrong. There should never be a normal circumstance which sucks Coolant into the Oil. Exactly where would it get sucked from? What would impart this vacuum energy to the coolant? No, coolant in the Oil is positively a sign of a major problem, usually the headgasket. Rarely, but possibly from a crack as mentioned.

With a Blown Headgasket, your resale will be very low because the new owner will need to spend $$ to get it fixed and will want the car discounted well below what you can fix it for.

If selling, get the repair (just the Headgasket and a coolant/Oil change) and then sell it. You'll recoup your money that way.

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99