Oil Recommendation ?
 

I know in past that this topic has been discussed ad infinitum. However, after researching the forum, I noticed in the end that many of these threads were reduced to argumentation, finger pointing - ultimately giving rise to extraneous discussion . With that said, I'm looking for a simple recommendation with regard to choosing a brand and grade of oil for my vehicle . Up until now, I've been using Mobil One . However, I' m interested in switching to another high quality synthetic oil . My vehicle is an '02 S with 18k original miles, and it's driven seasonally (April-November) up here in New England .
Some brands that I have read positive things about are Motul, Redline, Royal Purple and
Castrol . Any thoughts ?

Johnny, my thoughts are pretty simple......okay didn't really mean that....but, as to oil, if it ain't broke.........why change? Someone will try to discredit every brand, make & model of everything. Mobile 1 is being run in probably more U.S. Porsches than anything else.

LMAO Johnny - you serious or are you just trying to start something? :matchup: :D

I race stock drag 12 years. Castrol was the highest rated at that time. This is the first car that I did not use Castrol in. The Castrol did show better than the other brands for lowest internal deposits and rapid seating of pistons and valves. If you want to change look at the racing divisions the three that stand out. Mobil 1, Castrol syn. and Royal purple the new up and comer. Their primary concerns are reduced friction @ high temp and high RPM. Unless the team has a oil sponsership they are using one of these.

As much as I like to be a provocateur at times, I'm being quite serious . Although, I'm starting to get a sense of where this thread is heading . :eek:

Point well taken .

I have just over 45,000 miles on my 987S. For most of the past 6 driving seasons, I've very successfully used Red Line 5W40 with Blackstone UOA's. Last year, prior to winter hibernation, I switched to Mobil 1's 5W50 (hard oil to find). It was just drained last week, after one driving season and about 6,400 miles. The UOA looks excellent, and I plan on using it another year.

If my UOA's continue to to be excellent (as expected) I plan to stay with the 5W50. If not, my pan was/is to try Motul.

I went with the Mobil 5W50 for these reasons:

1) Porsche approved
2) A 5W50 weight (I wanted a 50 weight)
3) Easier to obtain than Red Line (not shipping, I can pick up from a Mobil dist. in Elgin, IL)
4) About $6.75/quart


IMHO, the only way to justify your oil selection is with several data points from a UOA report.

Just so I understand, you feel that 50 grade oil provides better lubrication at higher operating temperatures than 40W ? Also, some of what I've read suggests that there's a benefit to using 0-5W for initial start-up over the usual 10W . Does this make sense ?

Yes, and I repost a previous comment
 

Since this post has predictably turned into a discussion of which oil is best, I'll put in my 2 cents worth.

I was first convinced that, based on several on line sources, I should use a heavier weight oil, I used both 15-50 and 20-50 for "flush" oil changes of about 1k miles each (I just got my car and the previous owner went long on the oil change intervals), both to try to get rid of the start up rattle and since I live in Miami Florida where its always hot, to protect against heat breakdown of oil. The heavier weight oils made no demonstrable difference in start up clatter.

Then I read the article below and I am a now a convert to M1 0-40. The long and the short of the article is that oil flow is what is important. You want as much volume going through the motor as possible at all times. Since 0-X weight oil is thinner when cold than a 5, 10, 20-X oil, it will provide more volume while the motor is warming up.

And remember, oil temp lags behind coolant temp during warmup. My Durametric shows that oil temp is about 10 C degrees behing coolant temp until the coolant gets close to 90 C, which takes a good 20 minutes in my car with combined city/highway driving. Once its up to temp, the oil temp is a little less than 10 C hotter than the collant temp, in the 100-105 C. range.

Once the oil is hot, the viscosity in now at 40, which at the oil temps I am running, is more than enough to protect the motor. Now, if I were running my car on the track, oil temps might be significantly higher, so I might consider a heavier oil.

But for the type of driving I do, I am convinced a 0-40 oil will protect the engine better during the crucial warm up, which if you do a lot of short trip city driving, will be a big portion of the time you are driving your car.


Calling All Engineers (And Motor-Heads) -
__________________

I can tell from the UOA that the 50 weight is doing it's job, because the zinc and phosphorus are lower than Red Line's content. And wear metals went down with a longer drain interval.

I think a 5 weight is better than a 0 weight because it narrows the gap to 50 and keeps the range tighter. A 0 weight would be good for a very cold climate (when my cars are stored). There are no 10 weight oils that at Porsche approved for the 986/987/996/997.

My car sees a LOT of +6,000 RPM's (shifting).

I'll post my cumulative UOA from the past 4 oil changes one day this week, when I get a chance, and you'll see the data.

Without the UOA's I'd never know that the Red Line 5W40 was a great oil, and the Mobil 5W50 appears to be as good or better.

Correct. One of the reasons Porcshe revised their recommend oils list (viscosity) a few years ago and stated 0 and 5 weights. To help "quiet" some of the start up noise.

From the UOAs I've done so far, M1 0-40 is by far the best. P and Z levels consistently above 1000, Moly at 90, always in the middle of the viscosity range. With Mobil 15-50, Z and P were in the 750-850 range, Moly in the 20 range and it had sheared below grade after only 1k miles. Valvoline 20-50 also had low Z, P and Moly, but stayed within viscosity grade.

But to repeat myself, the issue I see is that until you drive your car for about 1/2 hour, its not up to operating temperature, and a 0 weight oil will provide better protection during the crucial warm up period.

I am using 5W40 motul 8100 x-ess. Actually, I have experienced much less lifter noise/engine clatter on start up than with 0W40 M1. Perhaps this is down to more oil film retention (due to the higher viscosity) and availability on start up. Valve train and lifter tick are are sounds that are very rare rather than a regular occurrence with 0W40. Whether this translates to reduced engine wear is another story but it sure does sound like this would be the case. If someone could direct me to the oil flow case article, it would be much appreciated.

I also track the car and only drive in summer. The thicker oil made sense to me.

I used Motul 5W-40 Xcess for 3 oil changes after the factory fill, but still had noticeable valve train noise on startup. I never used M1 0W-40 as I use that oil in the wife's MB E320 and there's always startup noise. I went with M1 5W-40 for two oil changes but had valve train noise again. I just recently went with Redline 5W-40 and the valve train noise is virtually gone. BTW, the UOAs on the Motul and M1 5W-40 oils were good, it was just the noise that bothered me.

I called Redline and they told me that their product is higher in ester than other PCMOs. Since ester is a polar molecule, it will stick to metal parts.

Regards,
paul...

Pentosin 5w40
 

I was keeping Pentosin 5w40 in stock for my TDI customers and then discovered that it was Porsche approved for the M96.

I'm now using it for all synthetic applications.

OK Paul I just ordered some Redline 5W-40 I will report my experience after my next oil change.

Good luck with it. I also thought about using Motul 300V, but this is essentially a racing oil and I worry about cat converter compatability. A while back I was checking RLI's oil (Renewable Lubricants) but when I called to inquire about the HTHS rating, they never really answered my question -- they gave me a long, drawn out response but since I'm not a lube engineer, I couldn't make any sense of it. They do show it as meeting ACEA A3 (1998) which has the >= 3.5cP HTHS requirement.

Regards,
paul...

My engine rebuilder recommended Castrol Synted 5W40 for my Boxster. Engine was rebuilt as PO had added 4 extra liters of oil at a gas station ... she did not have a manual and read the dipstick wrong. I have used it in my 2010 F150 and it seems to run better with better gas milage. He warrants the engine and said I should not have any issues with Castrol. I am looking at upgrading to the L&N spin on oil filter kit before I put it in storage for the winter.

Mobil 1 10w-40 High Mileage year round in LA. Also comes in a 5w-30 for cooler climates. Strong anti-wear package is the reasoning.

I have been using LubroMoly Vollsynthese 5-40 and it has done very well. I will be doing another UOA on this change. 96K miles on an '05 with no leaks, no consumption, and very little start-up noise.

just my $0.02.

Hmm... I noticed that Mobil 1 comes in a 0-40W grade . I may stick with it after all ??

I had switched to Castrol Synthetic from Mobil one when they lost their ratings about five years ago but they have been re-rated so I have switched back to Mobile one 5W-40 but I would also use 0W-40 in cold winter weather.

Here is the most definitive discussion of oil I have read. Check it out

i've recently been researching this also. ln engineering have a good article on their site here:

Oils: What motor oil should I use? Which oil is best for my Porsche or aircooled engine?

where they suggest 5w40 is best. mobil 1 have two formulation that i can find; one for turbo diesels and one for mercedes. according to mobil the turbo diesel formula is also good for high performance gas engines, and has the SL/Cl-4 rating preferred by lne. researching that oil specifically i've found that lots of folks use it (or it's precursor delvac) and lne recommends it.

otherwise, i've read that the mobil 1 0w40 we get here is a different oil than what mobil sells in europe (different additive package).

I've read that article several times in past. And, based on what I can glean from it, the lower the viscosity rating is on start-up the better it is for initial lubrication (i.e. 0 vs. 5 or 10). Thus my decision to use a synthetic that has a rating of 0-40w . Does this make sense ?

I was just re-reading it myself and it is very clear that 0W grade is better than 5W and better than 10W due to less thickening when the oil cools off.

I am sold, I am going to M1 0W-40 next oil change.

If you can spare the money, I love Red Line. Full ester synthetic, one of the few on the market.

I'd like to try it but at over $10 per quart that hurts at my house where I use 30 quarts of synthetic per oil change cycle.

That's what I run.
Autoengineering guys recommend it as well.

I just changed my oil yesterday after finding a Walmart with Mobil 1 0w-40 in stock for $6.47 per quart. Too bad they didn't have the 5 qt. jug anywhere locally. I'll add a post after some colder weather if I notice a significant change in the start up noise in cold weather.

Serendipity stikes twice . I was in Walmart yesterday and discovered that they had Mobil 1 in 0-40W weight ! :)

JD,

Some Walmarts have it and some don't -- I guess it depends on demand (and whether the store has auto service). I usually buy a few cases of it for my wife's MB E320 at the Salem NH store when she wants to go to Rockingham Mall to spend my hard-earned money -- I wish Macy's had an automotive dept.

If you decide to go with M1 0W-40, then buy a bunch of it because the price is constantly increasing. Most of the "better" synthetic oils at my local AutoZone are rapidly approaching $9/qt.

Regards,
paul...

S&B,

Do you bring your 986 to them for service? I was just curious as I've heard a couple of negative things about them from people I work with (who don't know anything about cars), so I'd like an opinion from someone who is a real "car-person". Thx.

Regards,
paul...

I saw the price on the walmart synthetic oil change deal and allowed them to change the oil on my 2003 Range Rover. Everything was fine until the next morning there was a puddle of oil under my car. I crawled underneath and the oil plug was dripping precipitously. I immediately called the store and the shop manager came to my house. He was very polite (almost grovelling). I was worried that some big galute had overtorqued my plug and crapped the threads but it turned out that the crush washer was simply left off. He replaced it, offered me a host of free services and generally did everything he could have done to make it right.

Now every time I go to Walmart I get a big hello from the manager and I have since taken my Boxster to them to patch a nail in one tire which they did to my exact instructions.

I dont know if every Walmart has as dedicated hard working management as this one and I have certainly heard my share of horror stories. I have not yet considered taking a Porsche there for an oil change but they did make it all right on the Rover. I just dont want to be in a situation where they have to make it right on my Porsche if that makes sense.

Yes, you make perfect sense. For me, I get enough aggravation in my life and I don't need more.


Regards,
paul...

I wonder if Walmart could do an IMS and RMS retro-fit ??

As I always say regarding anything Wal-Mart (with a slight variation thanks to the above posts)...with the exception of purchasing Mobil 1, you get what you pay for.

I think if you give Wal-Mart your Boxster, IMSR, and RMS, you'll have a Fiero by the time it comes off the lift.

The mere thought of letting Walmart's trained monkeys actually take a wrench to my car sends cold chills down my spine. Does anyone really believe that those flat-rate hacks would even check the torque spec for a drain plug, never mind actually apply it? Would you really want some ham-fisted lout tightening your plastic filter housing? I feel faint... I need to lie down for a while...

I would have thought the same thing but after my discussions with the local manager of the auto department I see a different picture. They look up and torque to spec absolutely everything. They are doing more CYA stuff than any of our regular mechanics I can assure you because Walmart is a big juicy target for lots of claims (both deserved and undeserved).

If anything I would say that they are too "by the book" and not allowed to make decisions that would create different outcomes... no judgement allowed by the employees because they are too big. Follow the manual and let corporate deal with it is the mentality and in that environment you tend to run off the good people that use their brains.

So the end result may be the same but they are using torque wrenches more than you and I are. They are trying to do work that is good work as well as fending off potential liability at the same time and that is not conducive to the best results.

I will let them patch my Boxster's tire because the do an excellent job at that and it was only $10 and it was a Sunday. Anything else...I don't think so.

What if they had a direct line into Jake Raby while they were doing it ? Hey, this has the makings of a TV reality show !! What would it be called ?

The price for the supplies is why I pay for my work. At $9 per quart, that's $81 plus tax for oil alone. Add in the filter and your 80% to a professional oil change. It's not worth my time as I can make money while they work on my car. That's not even including the proper disposal of the used oil.