Oil Recommendation ?

[Johnny Danger]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Johnny, my thoughts are pretty simple......okay didn't really mean that....but, as to oil, if it ain't broke.........why change? Someone will try to discredit every brand, make & model of everything. Mobile 1 is being run in probably more U.S. Porsches than anything else.

Point well taken .

[Flavor 987S]

I have just over 45,000 miles on my 987S. For most of the past 6 driving seasons, I've very successfully used Red Line 5W40 with Blackstone UOA's. Last year, prior to winter hibernation, I switched to Mobil 1's 5W50 (hard oil to find). It was just drained last week, after one driving season and about 6,400 miles. The UOA looks excellent, and I plan on using it another year.

If my UOA's continue to to be excellent (as expected) I plan to stay with the 5W50. If not, my pan was/is to try Motul.

I went with the Mobil 5W50 for these reasons:

1) Porsche approved
2) A 5W50 weight (I wanted a 50 weight)
3) Easier to obtain than Red Line (not shipping, I can pick up from a Mobil dist. in Elgin, IL)
4) About $6.75/quart


IMHO, the only way to justify your oil selection is with several data points from a UOA report.

[Johnny Danger]

Originally Posted by Flavor 987S

I have just over 45,000 miles on my 987S. For most of the past 6 driving seasons, I've very successfully used Red Line 5W40 with Blackstone UOA's. Last year, prior to winter hibernation, I switched to Mobil 1's 5W50 (hard oil to find). It was just drained last week, after one driving season and about 6,400 miles. The UOA looks excellent, and I plan on using it another year.

If my UOA's continue to to be excellent (as expected) I plan to stay with the 5W50. If not, my pan was/is to try Motul.

I went with the Mobil 5W50 for these reasons:

1) Porsche approved
2) A 5W50 weight (I wanted a 50 weight)
3) Easier to obtain than Red Line (not shipping, I can pick up from a Mobil dist. in Elgin, IL)
4) About $6.75/quart


IMHO, the only way to justify your oil selection is with several data points from a UOA report.

Just so I understand, you feel that 50 grade oil provides better lubrication at higher operating temperatures than 40W ? Also, some of what I've read suggests that there's a benefit to using 0-5W for initial start-up over the usual 10W . Does this make sense ?

[san rensho]

Originally Posted by Johnny Danger

Just so I understand, you feel that 50 grade oil provides better lubrication at higher operating temperatures than 40W ? Also, some of what I've read suggests that there's a benefit to using 0-5W for initial start-up over the usual 10W . Does this make sense ?

Since this post has predictably turned into a discussion of which oil is best, I'll put in my 2 cents worth.

I was first convinced that, based on several on line sources, I should use a heavier weight oil, I used both 15-50 and 20-50 for "flush" oil changes of about 1k miles each (I just got my car and the previous owner went long on the oil change intervals), both to try to get rid of the start up rattle and since I live in Miami Florida where its always hot, to protect against heat breakdown of oil. The heavier weight oils made no demonstrable difference in start up clatter.

Then I read the article below and I am a now a convert to M1 0-40. The long and the short of the article is that oil flow is what is important. You want as much volume going through the motor as possible at all times. Since 0-X weight oil is thinner when cold than a 5, 10, 20-X oil, it will provide more volume while the motor is warming up.

And remember, oil temp lags behind coolant temp during warmup. My Durametric shows that oil temp is about 10 C degrees behing coolant temp until the coolant gets close to 90 C, which takes a good 20 minutes in my car with combined city/highway driving. Once its up to temp, the oil temp is a little less than 10 C hotter than the collant temp, in the 100-105 C. range.

Once the oil is hot, the viscosity in now at 40, which at the oil temps I am running, is more than enough to protect the motor. Now, if I were running my car on the track, oil temps might be significantly higher, so I might consider a heavier oil.

But for the type of driving I do, I am convinced a 0-40 oil will protect the engine better during the crucial warm up, which if you do a lot of short trip city driving, will be a big portion of the time you are driving your car.


Calling All Engineers (And Motor-Heads) -
__________________

[Flavor 987S]

Originally Posted by san rensho

The heavier weight oils made no demonstrable difference in start up clatter.

Correct. One of the reasons Porcshe revised their recommend oils list (viscosity) a few years ago and stated 0 and 5 weights. To help "quiet" some of the start up noise.

[Flavor 987S]

Originally Posted by Johnny Danger

Just so I understand, you feel that 50 grade oil provides better lubrication at higher operating temperatures than 40W ? Also, some of what I've read suggests that there's a benefit to using 0-5W for initial start-up over the usual 10W . Does this make sense ?

I can tell from the UOA that the 50 weight is doing it's job, because the zinc and phosphorus are lower than Red Line's content. And wear metals went down with a longer drain interval.

I think a 5 weight is better than a 0 weight because it narrows the gap to 50 and keeps the range tighter. A 0 weight would be good for a very cold climate (when my cars are stored). There are no 10 weight oils that at Porsche approved for the 986/987/996/997.

My car sees a LOT of +6,000 RPM's (shifting).

I'll post my cumulative UOA from the past 4 oil changes one day this week, when I get a chance, and you'll see the data.

Without the UOA's I'd never know that the Red Line 5W40 was a great oil, and the Mobil 5W50 appears to be as good or better.

[san rensho]

Originally Posted by Flavor 987S

I can tell from the UOA that the 50 weight is doing it's job, because the zinc and phosphorus are lower than Red Line's content. And wear metals went down with a longer drain interval.

I think a 5 weight is better than a 0 weight because it narrows the gap to 50 and keeps the range tighter. A 0 weight would be good for a very cold climate (when my cars are stored). There are no 10 weight oils that at Porsche approved for the 986/987/996/997.

My car sees a LOT of +6,000 RPM's (shifting).

I'll post my cumulative UOA from the past 4 oil changes one day this week, when I get a chance, and you'll see the data.

Without the UOA's I'd never know that the Red Line 5W40 was a great oil, and the Mobil 5W50 appears to be as good or better.

From the UOAs I've done so far, M1 0-40 is by far the best. P and Z levels consistently above 1000, Moly at 90, always in the middle of the viscosity range. With Mobil 15-50, Z and P were in the 750-850 range, Moly in the 20 range and it had sheared below grade after only 1k miles. Valvoline 20-50 also had low Z, P and Moly, but stayed within viscosity grade.

But to repeat myself, the issue I see is that until you drive your car for about 1/2 hour, its not up to operating temperature, and a 0 weight oil will provide better protection during the crucial warm up period.

[jaykay]

I am using 5W40 motul 8100 x-ess. Actually, I have experienced much less lifter noise/engine clatter on start up than with 0W40 M1. Perhaps this is down to more oil film retention (due to the higher viscosity) and availability on start up. Valve train and lifter tick are are sounds that are very rare rather than a regular occurrence with 0W40. Whether this translates to reduced engine wear is another story but it sure does sound like this would be the case. If someone could direct me to the oil flow case article, it would be much appreciated.

I also track the car and only drive in summer. The thicker oil made sense to me.

[paulv]

Originally Posted by jaykay

I am using 5W40 motul 8100 x-ess. Actually, I have experienced much less lifter noise/engine clatter on start up than with 0W40 M1. Perhaps this is down to more oil film retention (due to the higher viscosity) and availability on start up. Valve train and lifter tick are are sounds that are very rare rather than a regular occurrence with 0W40. Whether this translates to reduced engine wear is another story but it sure does sound like this would be the case. If someone could direct me to the oil flow case article, it would be much appreciated.

I also track the car and only drive in summer. The thicker oil made sense to me.

I used Motul 5W-40 Xcess for 3 oil changes after the factory fill, but still had noticeable valve train noise on startup. I never used M1 0W-40 as I use that oil in the wife's MB E320 and there's always startup noise. I went with M1 5W-40 for two oil changes but had valve train noise again. I just recently went with Redline 5W-40 and the valve train noise is virtually gone. BTW, the UOAs on the Motul and M1 5W-40 oils were good, it was just the noise that bothered me.

I called Redline and they told me that their product is higher in ester than other PCMOs. Since ester is a polar molecule, it will stick to metal parts.

Regards,
paul...