M030 ROW spring rates vs various aftermarket options

[pothole]

Hoping someone might have an idea of how M030 ROW spring rates might compare with various decent aftermarket spring kits - Eibach, H&R etc.

I'm pondering a chassis upgrade for my '97 and while I'd love to go with PSS9 or KW V3, pricing is a little prohibitive. Here the the UK, the M030 kit with springs, dampers and roll bar can be bought remarkably cheaply. I'm looking for a bit more drop than the official M030 kit offers so I am thinking about combining the M030 dampers and bars with a third party sport spring kit. Thus I am interested in the spring rates for the aftermarket kits. Thanks.

[brp987]

I have the same dilemma and questions except that I went ahead and got the row m030. It arrived in the last few days. The row m030 also comes with bars. I'll see if I can assess relative spring rates.

I have eibachs on now which were installed by the previous owner. They are too low for my liking. They have about 15k miles on them. I would sell them pretty reasonably if you are interested although I don't know what shipping would be.

[jacabean]

i just ordered a Row m030 kit and was thinking the same. I think it is the best value out there. i just bought some 19" wheels and i am not sure the car will be lowered enough with the Row springs. i was thinking about using H&R springs. The H&Rs make the car sit properly in my opinion. also with the added drop i believe you will need more parts for proper alignment .

[mikstew]

I have teh CDN (RoW? not sure)) spec m030 and the ride is, as you might say, bloody harsh.

Sure its great for the track, but if you DD, its not that fun.

Choose wisely.

[pothole]

Not terribly concerned about ride quality.

BRP987 - two things. Firstly, I'm guessing from your name you run a 987, not a 986? If it's a 986 on Eibachs, do you have any images?

Thanks.

[brp987]

Hmmm well that's interesting. I would describe the Eibachs/Bilstein I have now as firm but reasonable. Whether "firm but reasonable" equates to "bloody harsh" remains to be seen. All I drive is porsche - maybe just used to it. Although I commute on a sportbike. Now that thing is harsh.

There are probably threads out there on this. If anyone has a Rosetta stone, the rear m030 coils have 1 orange mark at the top and red and yellow marks below. The fronts have a white on one end and silver/red on the other

[brp987]

Originally Posted by pothole

Not terribly concerned about ride quality.

BRP987 - two things. Firstly, I'm guessing from your name you run a 987, not a 986? If it's a 986 on Eibachs, do you have any images?

Thanks.

Actually, mine is a 986S. I didn't know much about boxsters when I bought it and somehow assumed a 987 was an "S". Anyhoo, I'll post some pics before work starts, probably friday.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by mikstew

I have teh CDN (RoW? not sure)) spec m030 and the ride is, as you might say, bloody harsh.

Sure its great for the track, but if you DD, its not that fun.

Choose wisely.

Wheel size?

[brp987]

'01 S on Eibachs before ROW M030 install.

ground to fender: front: 24 3/4 inch, rear: 25 inch

coil wire diameter at bottom:
'01S (stock): 0.514 inch; Eibach: 0.514 inch; ROW M030: 0.545

Apparently, spring rate varies as 4th power of wire diameter, which according to my math makes the row M030 26% stiffer than what was stock on my car.

I'll try to post pics, but this is my first try so it probably won't work.

[brp987]

OK, pics didn't work. Tried to link to google/picassa. Looked at FAQ, read some blah blah, but no instructions on attaching pics, so done for now.

[pothole]

Thanks. I'll repost the images for you:




Looks pretty decked. So do we think the Eibachs as softer than ROW M030? Nice wheels, by the way. What are they?

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by brp987

'01 S on Eibachs before ROW M030 install.

ground to fender: front: 24 3/4 inch, rear: 25 inch

coil wire diameter at bottom:
'01S (stock): 0.514 inch; Eibach: 0.514 inch; ROW M030: 0.545

Apparently, spring rate varies as 4th power of wire diameter, which according to my math makes the row M030 26% stiffer than what was stock on my car.

I'll try to post pics, but this is my first try so it probably won't work.

Spring rate also depends on spring pitch (coils per inch) when unloaded, spring (coil) diameter, and material, of which there are many. So there are missing puzzle pieces.

[shlim8]

Originally Posted by mikstew

I have teh CDN (RoW? not sure)) spec m030 and the ride is, as you might say, bloody harsh.

Sure its great for the track, but if you DD, its not that fun.

Choose wisely.

I've got the ROW m030 kit too, but I'm on 17" rims. I wouldn't say the ride is bloody harsh, but it makes for a very busy ride esp on the front. Every impefection causes the front to bob up and down, independently on both sides. Never settles down. Down side is that it unsettles the car, esp taking uneven sweeping highway at high speeds. On smooth roads it's wonderful.

On the same uneven roads, I think I was taking them faster on the stock suspension.

I can imagine that if the car was on 19" it might be harsh.

Also, as I'm on ps3 front (vs ps2 N rear), I've always suspected that the ps3 was partly to blame.

[brp987]

Pothole - the wheels are Fikse 5 Profil. If TireRack tire weights are accurate then the wheels are 16lb front (18x7), 17 lb rear (18x9). They are forged 3 piece. The bolts are on the backside. There are prettier wheels out there, but these are light and easy to clean.

The m030 kit comes with bars. Maybe I'll try to compare the stock and m030 onroad. That might account for the handling on uneven pavement in sweepers described bt shlim8.

BTW, how did you post the pics?

[mikstew]

I am running stock 17 inch wheels with the stock beefy tires and I find the ride uncomfortable in the city. On florida's highways it would be a dream.

I had a 545i with sport suspension and an old RX7 turbo with sport suspension and both were almost like luxury cars compared to the M030.

I know there is a significant difference between the M030 and not-m030 since I can see other Porsches in the city bobbing up and down over the bumps, whereas I go over them like a 2 by 4 on rails.

Also, someone else posted that the M030 made their front end "busy, bobbing up and down on each side independetly". This is the opposite of what a stiff suspension should do, and s the opposite of what I feel with the m030. Strong swar bars should link both wheels such that they operate less indepently of each other. To that poster, I would check to see your swar bar links are in tact. Anyway my experience is that the front end is absolutely rigid and just bangs into anything the road throws at it lol. One other thing i notice is that if there are wheel depressions running paralell with the road, or if the road is declined to one side, the car will pull significantly in that direction. Maybe this normal for Porsches, but the only other car I have experienced it to this degree is my 745Li with 22" rims. However, if this can also be associated with the m030, it is another point against switching suspensions.

[jaykay]

Nice information and thoughts guys.

I am undecided as to what to do with my stock S suspension. My ride is pretty harsh on rougher roads as I am on 18" sport classic IIs. Nice and smooth on good roads Problem is my front end gets too light in climbing turns and can step out on me when going over a bump. I feel a bit too much compliance in long sweepers perhaps this is just down to bushings. My front end does track ruts even with 15mm spacers up front; much less twitchy than before though.

I would like the front end to stay down, be lower and not unweight so much. I don't think the car needs higher rate springs but I would like the car to sit lower. I would think slighty stiffer roll bars would be good along with more suitable damping. It would be nice if it could handle higher frequencies with more compliance while retaining proper damping levels for other conditions.

I was thinking of the M030 with different springs to give me a lower ride height but with a similar spring rate on an S. I am concerned that the damping will not be properly matched with the spring though.

Do any here have feed back on a set up like this. Perhaps there are a good set of Hand Rs that work well

[Cloudsurfer]

When all things are factored in, I don't think you can beat the RoW M030. It's just livable as a daily driver, and while certainly not comparable to Motons, it pretty damn impressive and balanced when pushed.

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by Cloudsurfer

When all things are factored in, I don't think you can beat the RoW M030. It's just livable as a daily driver, and while certainly not comparable to Motons, it pretty damn impressive and balanced when pushed.

By "just liveable" you mean just tolerable I take it. Are you on 18s? Do you have this set up on your 3.8?

[Cloudsurfer]

Originally Posted by jaykay

By "just liveable" you mean just tolerable I take it. Are you on 18s? Do you have this set up on your 3.8?

I had M030 on my 02 S, and very much enjoyed it. I would consider it "tolerable" for a daily driver if you're in an area that doesn't have horrible roads.

On the 3.8 car (which is an 03), I went with PSS9, and since I don't daily drive it, I really don't care how it rides

Keep in mind, to do coilovers on these cars the right way, you need to swap a bunch of stuff to get the alignment correct. Rear toe and front adjustable arms are a must, and since I still don't have numbers that I'm truly happy with, am considering going to the RSS adjustable lower control arms (link below).

http://stuttgartperformance.rpmware.com/rss/rss_tarmac_series_lower_control_arms/357/i-398277.aspx

Unless you track the car, I think the M030 is the best option, especially when money is considered.

[jaykay]

How does the M030 work with 19s? Have any done this yet? On paper it is all about unsprung weight and the spring rate and hysterisis of the tire itself. How does it end up feeling? Loose any fillings?