Poll:IMS related engine failure

[dixbu]

No
'01 base
98k miles

[pitafrog]

Changed IMS bearing @ 76K great shape, new clutch, rear main, new IMS stock bearing with TuneRS motorsports lube kit, 9 qts. of fresh 0w40 M1 and back on the road. Life is good.:dance:

[twindrop]

Hi Guys,

First of all many thanks for the very elaborate responses. Just a quick question. I bought the car from Germany back in 2007 with 40K miles on the clock (now we are at 65K) 2001 S Model.

I had no idea whatsoever about RMS and IMS. Now that I found out I went through the service history and found out that the British "Renew rear main seal and IMS seal".

Does anyone have any idea what that means? Do I need to replace IMS or is the job done by the previous owner?

Many thx!

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by twindrop

Hi Guys,

First of all many thanks for the very elaborate responses. Just a quick question. I bought the car from Germany back in 2007 with 40K miles on the clock (now we are at 65K) 2001 S Model.

I had no idea whatsoever about RMS and IMS. Now that I found out I went through the service history and found out that the British "Renew rear main seal and IMS seal".

Does anyone have any idea what that means? Do I need to replace IMS or is the job done by the previous owner?

Many thx!

Sounds like they updated the IMS outer seal to the triple seal. This has nothing to do with the IMS bearing only the outer seal to prevent oil leaking out of the engine case. Hopefully the RMS seal is the latest version introduced in 2005 which is normally leak free indefinitely. For more info on the IMSB search the forum.

[twindrop]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

Sounds like they updated the IMS outer seal to the triple seal. This has nothing to do with the IMS bearing only the outer seal to prevent oil leaking out of the engine case. Hopefully the RMS seal is the latest version introduced in 2005 which is normally leak free indefinitely. For more info on the IMSB search the forum.

Just to let you know, the cost of this so called seal, was at 1000USD at the time (2006).

Quite high isnt it?

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by twindrop

Just to let you know, the cost of this so called seal, was at 1000USD at the time (2006).

Quite high isnt it?

Current USA cost for RMS is $15. IMS mounting flange with updated seal is $150.

$1,000 is typical labor cost to remove transmission & install seals.

You will get more responses in the Technical forum thread. OPA!

[twindrop]

Quick Question although I remember reading about it somewhere...

Can we do an internal poll to check out what OIL did people used with the cars that actually have an IMS failure? I guess that could held us pinpoint any issues with particular brands or viscosities... I cant remember reading about 10WXX or 15WXX related IMS topics...

any clues?

[bonesy]

Originally Posted by turbo23dog

I was at a local independent shop specializing in Pcars this past Thursday to pick up some tune up parts. It seems they just replaced a 3.4L engine from a 2002 996 due to IMS failure and the old engine was in a corner of the shop sitting on the pallet the new engine had arrived on.

The tech showed me the actual broken end of the Intermediate Main Shaft. I was able to hold the broken end of the shaft in my hand and it still had the "nut" on the end of it. To my untrained eye, it looked like the nut was over tightened and the stress over time caused the metal to fatigue and the shaft seperated at its weakest point. The tech didn't think so. He did think that the failure patten was random and offered that maybe random batches of the shafts were defective from the factory that supplies the shafts (something gone wrong with the forging process), meaning that its a total crapshoot to which IMS your engine got at the time it was assembled.

Again, no science behind this, just pure speculation, but interesting nontheless.

If this was the case there would be a pattern to the failures and people would see this through engine numbers & build dates?

[pjq]

yes 2004 ims failure engine replacement/complete rebuild

[Tommhnyc]

Hi Guys,

This is my first post so I would like to introduce myself and let you know that I've become a big fan of the Boxster.
I'm personally looking to buy my first boxster S. I found one but heard from the owner that there's a small leak from the IMS. My question is , should I stay away from it or buy it (it's priced reasonably) and get aftermarket IMS? If so, what's the estimated cost?
Is the engine ok even if there are signs of failure till the final engine failure or is it already too late to recover it w/o total engine replacement?

Thanks so much and look forward to becoming a happy owner soon.

-TomZ

[thom4782]

There's isn't a clear answer.

How do you know it's the IMS that is leaking and not the RMS?

If it is the RMS, then you should replace the IMS at the same time with an aftermarket one.

If it is the IMS, more diagnostics are in order. Check the oil filter and the oil sump for metal debris. If you find metal, then I'd recommend walking away. It the IMS is failing, it's a crap shoot whether the engine will survive a long time without a complete rebuild because metal will be scattered throughout. Many frequent oil changes after the replacement might help but you just never know.

If you do buy the car, have an IMS experienced shop do the work.

Up through MY05, clutch, IMS and RMS costs about $2500 to $3500 depending on local rates. Ten hours or so of labor plus parts.

[Tommhnyc]

Originally Posted by thom4782

There's isn't a clear answer.

How do you know it's the IMS that is leaking and not the RMS?

If it is the RMS, then you should replace the IMS at the same time with an aftermarket one.

If it is the IMS, more diagnostics are in order. Check the oil filter and the oil sump for metal debris. If you find metal, then I'd recommend walking away. It the IMS is failing, it's a crap shoot whether the engine will survive a long time without a complete rebuild because metal will be scattered throughout. Many frequent oil changes after the replacement might help but you just never know.

If you do buy the car, have an IMS experienced shop do the work.

Up through MY05, clutch, IMS and RMS costs about $2500 to $3500 depending on local rates. Ten hours or so of labor plus parts.

Thanks thom4782
How can you tell which one is leaking?
Unfortunately, this car is not within my driving distance and I rely on owner's honesty and his expertise.

I'm debating if I should take a chance and fly there (SF), have it checked at the shop, and then make a decision.

[thom4782]

The only way I know is to remove the transmission and visually inspect the seal and bearing flange.

A check of the oil filter and sump for metal debris is an indirect way to see if the bearing is starting to fail. Another way is to look at the camshaft deviations when the engine is warmed up. They should be absolutely rock steady and within +/- 6 degrees.

[landrovered]

2001 Boxster S with 3.6 variocam plus engine with 55k miles. Started running poorly and made rotational chirping sounds like a water pump that is failing can make. I removers the serp belt and the sound did not go away. The exhaust cam on bank one had jumped one tooth and the bearing while still intact was wobbly and the ball bearings were no longer spherical. There was a small amount of glitter in the oil filter but the majority of the swarf was in the intermediate shaft behind the bearing. I replaced the bearing with the Pelican bearing using the LN tool kit. I recommend that you pin the crank and the number one bank on three chain motors and not rely on the set screws provided with the pelican bearing kit. My exhaust cam jumped a few links and was a royal pain to get back in time but I was able to do it with the motor in situ. Lesson learned. I cleaned the sump and all the accessible areas of the block to remove any swarf, I also changed the oil and filter after 40 miles and am going to change it again at 500 to make sure that any metal particles are removed.

[J boxster]

2003 Boxster S, why is this engine more prone to IMS failure?

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by J boxster

2003 Boxster S, why is this engine more prone to IMS failure?

Single row IMS Bearing equipped. The weakest of all OEM bearings- period.

[kiyakubuke]

any difference between the failure rate of the base boxster vs the boxster S?

[saintdrug]

Intermediate Shaft Bearing Upgrade. Eternal Fix IMS Boxster 986 / 996 / 997 | eBay

if I buy this will it prevent the fail? next week hopefully I will finilaze my new Porsche purchase

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by saintdrug

Intermediate Shaft Bearing Upgrade. Eternal Fix IMS Boxster 986 / 996 / 997 | eBay

if I buy this will it prevent the fail? next week hopefully I will finilaze my new Porsche purchase

Better to get the best bearing available. Go to lnengineering.com and get the best.

[mikefocke]

The claims alone should warn you against this specific product. Nothing is Eternal.

There are IMS replacement bearing kits where many thousands of owners over many years with many tens of thousands of kilometers of driving and many postings on forums might lead you to suspect that they are reliable. There are other newer products where it is too soon to tell...interesting design theories but where is the proof?

And a lot depends on the skill and experience of the installer.

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." – Richard Phillips Feynman