Poll:IMS related engine failure

[DenverSteve]

Almost all of the failure stories start with "my friend" or "someone I knew" etc. That or my car had XXX hours of track time. My dealer service rep. has been with that dealership (one of the largest, if not the largest, Porsche dealers in Colorado. They deal with a lot of Porsches and recall one IMS failure in that decade. It happens but (I believe) at a very very small percentage. I believe those who have had failures should indeed file complaints if their issues were not handled by the factory. He also told me that no amount of babying the car or maintenance will make any difference. If yours is one that will fail, it will fail no matter what.

[fooksm]

Steve,

I currently have 2 Boxsters, one of which suffered an IMS failure which totalled the engine... It is a 2001 3.2s and had 102000 kms on it at the time of the failure. No Porsche dealer is aware of thisspecific car having had an IMS failure as there is no point due to it's age.

The data on these IMS failures does seem to suggest that low mileage per year cars are more prone to IMS failure than others and I have just bought an LN Engineering IMS upgrade to install in the 2nd Boxster when I change it's clutch next year, just because I don't want the downtime involved if the 2nd Boxster were to suffer an IMS failure.

In my case, the 2nd Boxster has no service history and fewer miles per year than tge 2001 S so I feel that there are certain things which I should do to minimise the risk of unforseen problems with the car, such as IMS upgrade and a new Clutch whilst I'm there. As with all older cars which I purchase, the very first thing was a full major service, of course as I now know exactly what fluids the car has in it and exactly when that was done.

The 2001 Boxster with failed IMS lasted very nearly 10 years before suffering an IMS failure and I am assuming that my other one has lasted nearly 12 years without an IMS failure so I agree that IMS failures are not as common as some would have us think.

[fivepointnine]

no issues at 65k miles, but am planning on doing the IMS upgrade with my tax return this year

[silverboxter]

I thought that my daily driver 2001 Base Box was safe since it had over 100,000 miles. I performed all services before required and "babied" my car. Never raced or red-lined. The IMS failed at 129,666 miles. Don't know if it was bad luck or bad design....I just know that my wallet took a hit to get a donor engine and get her back on the road. Guess this is another, "I never thought this would happen to me story."

Hope it doesn't happen to you...

[san rensho]

Originally Posted by silverboxter

I thought that my daily driver 2001 Base Box was safe since it had over 100,000 miles. I performed all services before required and "babied" my car. Never raced or red-lined. The IMS failed at 129,666 miles. Don't know if it was bad luck or bad design....I just know that my wallet took a hit to get a donor engine and get her back on the road. Guess this is another, "I never thought this would happen to me story."

Hope it doesn't happen to you...

Sorry to hear it. Any warning? Metal in oil filter, noises, cam deviation, oil leaks?

[MikenOH]

Originally Posted by silverboxter

I thought that my daily driver 2001 Base Box was safe since it had over 100,000 miles. I performed all services before required and "babied" my car. Never raced or red-lined. The IMS failed at 129,666 miles. Don't know if it was bad luck or bad design....I just know that my wallet took a hit to get a donor engine and get her back on the road. Guess this is another, "I never thought this would happen to me story."

Hope it doesn't happen to you...

questions:

laid up for extended periods?

Oil change interval and which one used?

How often do you buzz it?

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by MikenOH

How often do you buzz it?

If you mean what I think you mean I'm pretty sure his answer would be "never" since he mentioned that he "babied" it.

[silverboxter]

Car was never laid up...i drove it daily. Ninety miles a day / 5 days a week. Changed the oil every 5k miles. As for Buzzing....I never raced and never red-lined. To me, this is being babied.

Like I said, having 129k miles I figured I was beyond the IMS failure "window". My understanding was that the IMS failed early on.

[recycledsixtie]

guardian installed by the local indy shop. I am very sorry to hear about the ims failures on this thread. My heart goes out to you. I took the cheapest way out with this install and if the ims guard prevents the failure of the engine then it has achieved its job. If I get the warning of an impending ims fail, then I can save $$$$$. A less than $1000 prevention for a new engine is worth it to me.

[Overdrive]

Silverboxter, did you ever drive the car in a spirited way? I know you said you never redlined it, but did it ever see any RPMs approaching the redline? That could be a part of the problem. I'm not talking about beating on the car, but I am talking about putting it through its paces and getting a good, heavy-breathing run once in a while. I see that as a part of the rules to follow, too. If the car never saw high rpms, despite being daily driven and well maintained (hat tip to you there on both counts), that has been another suspected factor in the failure of the IMS and other areas of the engine.

[Brucelee]

What is the theory/explanation behind the "spirited driving" approach? Hwo would this tend to reduce one's chances of a defecting engineering issue such as the IMS?

[mikefocke]

The "spirited" theory arose, IIRC, from comments by Jake early in the "IMS-is-a-problem" history when he observed that frequently driven and spiritedly driven cars seemed to have less IMS failure problems.

My guess is that frequently and spirited result in warm oil being splashed at higher temps and pressures, less condensation in the oil or perhaps the inner seal is kept more flexible/effective.

Don't know if he still feels the same way nor do I know of any statistical study on the subject.

[silverboxter]

i usally never rpm'd beyond 5,500. may have hit 6k once or twice. the fastest i ever drove was the one time that i hit 127mph. don't really understand how "spirited" driving affects the IMS issue. would redlining have kept this from happening?...don't see how. i don't want to scare anybody out there. the fact is that i have my base box running and i have my wife's 02 S running. the last thing i want to do is to start a string that states that all p-cars have an IMS waiting to happen. this would drop the price on these cars if i ever thought of selling them...which i don't.

i'm just telling you what happened to me. sad story....but i still love my box!

[fivepointnine]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

The "spirited" theory arose, IIRC, from comments by Jake early in the "IMS-is-a-problem" history when he observed that frequently driven and spiritedly driven cars seemed to have less IMS failure problems.

My guess is that frequently and spirited result in warm oil being splashed at higher temps and pressures, less condensation in the oil or perhaps the inner seal is kept more flexible/effective.

Don't know if he still feels the same way nor do I know of any statistical study on the subject.

its a good theory, more RPM's= hotter oil (condensation being burned off) and higher oil pressure (oil getting pushed into all those little crevices)

I try and keep my RPM's above 3k as much as possible and have run it to the rev limiter a few times in 1st and 2nd

but Im still planning on doing the IMS upgrade with my tax return this winter/spring

[fivepointnine]

so have we ever determined if the single row 02-up bearing is any better?

[mts]

Originally Posted by fivepointnine

so have we ever determined if the single row 02-up bearing is any better?

I don't think I've heard anything like that definitive from Jake, but a quick search of this forum would indicate the 02-up bearings fail just as much (my 2004 included).

[Brucelee]

The theory is not sound in my opinion. Assuming you run the engine to full operating temp, the oil temp is 220-250, or higher if you sit in traffice. How much hotter does the engine oil have to be to somehow lube the IMS more effectively?

If anything, a seal or bearing that is poorly designed and grenades would tend to do so MORE at higher RPMs. That is why race engines often grenade, as they are pused to the limits of their engineering tolerances.

[feelyx]

The bearing that was used is the same one in a 4" electric forklift wheel, bearing #6204 2rs. The issue we had yrs ago with the manufactures was the lack of grease in the bearings. It wasn't every bearing, just a few out of a group of 100. They would fail within a week of install. Once we decided to repack the bearing with high temp red grease all problems stopped.

Just a side note S6204 2rs is the ceramic bearing, 5204 2rs is the double row bearing and I still haven't found the double row ceramic yet. But I don't think the double row was or is a good idea (personal opinion) because the they are actually weaker do to the fact that they can't load as many bearings in it. bearings can be found here Ball Bearings:Miniature bearings:Ceramic Bearings:Bearing

I'm doing my clutch next month and have an idea I can do this bearing project for less than $150 out the door. I will be using this bearing 6204 2nse and leaving the seals on after repacking it with the high temp grease.

[986_inquiry]

I'm pretty surprised to see so little failures. I just bought my 98 Boxster yesterday and had always assumed IMS was just something I would need to replace ASAP. I still plan on replacing it but maybe I'll put it off a little while =

[StarFox]

I have a 01 Boxster S
Just replaced my IMS last week....pain the arse!