Measurements of Lowered Boxsters

[Benny986]

Originally Posted by Gary in BR

My current spring rates are 300 front and 500 rear.

I know these are very stiff, my original thought is to just go with softer springs. Most spring rates for the 986 are 200-300 range. The reason I am considering just going to a Bilsten-H&R setup is I will only have to do the work once.

DO you guys think softening the springs will help with the "porpoising" I am getting?

thats actually kinda of soft, and the range is interesting. i'm not too family with boxster spring setup, but is the 200lb difference front to rear normal?

i have 400s up front and 550 in the back. i also have a dual spring setup, so its actually a bit higher than that.

i also have higher canister pressures up front than out back. by about 100lbs i think.

my ride is very comfy.

are you on 19s? go back to 18s if so. what is your exact setup now? and describe how the car rides.

and by porpoising. do you mean that under acell, the front end seems to lift up? if so, i think our cars just do that.

[mn box s]

This thread got me down in my parking garage... and yes my car is still there ( a little dusty). Ok after measurements I was suprised to see by this style of measuring height that it was an even 4. All came in at 24-1/8" with 235/35/19 & 265/30/19 on oo' S running KW V2's with about 3" more to go in front and 3/4" to go in rear um dont think it would drive like that let alone get the jack out!

[Gary in BR]

Originally Posted by mn box s

This thread got me down in my parking garage... and yes my car is still there ( a little dusty). Ok after measurements I was suprised to see by this style of measuring height that it was an even 4. All came in at 24-1/8" with 235/35/19 & 265/30/19 on oo' S running KW V2's with about 3" more to go in front and 3/4" to go in rear um dont think it would drive like that let alone get the jack out!

Ok Mn Box we need to talk.
You are running your suspension lower than mine (and I thought I was low) and you have the same type 349 19 inch rims I have.

How is your ride?
What size tires are do you have on the car?
Maybe my coilovers just suck!!

[mn box s]

Well I do know that camber (extreme) will wear tires fast. Im getting 2k miles on my rears ( three sets rear) about 70% on the fronts still. So I just purchased rear toe adjuster rods. My toe is waaaayy out and hope this will get me to about 5-6k on my rears. Id be happy with that its not like Im trying to get 20+k on the things.

I love my suspension! Yes I come from a long line of slammmmmed cars its not low enough until you cant barely drive it. .....Rides good! Just cant pull into my driveway from the left at over 5mph or Ill pull the left front fender off.

Might be some pics at my clubs myspace site TC Echelon or TCECHELON.COM

About bump stops on factory type suspension they are external and made of a hard foam usually orangish. Most performance suspensions have them internally and no you probably wont hear it if you hit it. It will feel like the suspension stopped moving downward abruptly and your car will basicly launch into the air. While your body feels sharp spine compaction and your kiddneys and organs go whoah! or something like that.

[Benny986]

ok curiosity got the better of me.

i am at 25 3/16 all around. from floor to the bottom of the fender.

2K and you want 5-6K mileage??? SERIOUSLY! Umm, thats all TOE, toe kills tires way faster than camber.

I drive my car hard, and i autox, and I plan on getting 12k-15K on my tires.

porpoising... umm, do this, drive on a bumpy road, have someone drive behind you, or next to you. does that wheel still bounce up and down several seconds after you have hit that bump? If so, that shock is blown. There is no dampening, and you are just basically relying on the spring for your suspension in that corner.

[Gary in BR]

Originally Posted by mn box s

Well I do know that camber (extreme) will wear tires fast. Im getting 2k miles on my rears ( three sets rear) about 70% on the fronts still. So I just purchased rear toe adjuster rods. My toe is waaaayy out and hope this will get me to about 5-6k on my rears. Id be happy with that its not like Im trying to get 20+k on the things.



I installed a set of adjustable toe arms on my rear tires a few thousand miles ago. The car drives better and I am noticing less tire wear. I bought mine from Tarrett Enginering but I think Board sponsor Deluboz sells them also





I love my suspension! Yes I come from a long line of slammmmmed cars its not low enough until you cant barely drive it. .....Rides good! Just cant pull into my driveway from the left at over 5mph or Ill pull the left front fender off.

Might be some pics at my clubs myspace site TC Echelon or TCECHELON.COM




I looked at your clubs site and the pictures appear to be prior to lowering the car.
Do you have any with the car lowered?





About bump stops on factory type suspension they are external and made of a hard foam usually orangish. Most performance suspensions have them internally and no you probably wont hear it if you hit it. It will feel like the suspension stopped moving downward abruptly and your car will basicly launch into the air. While your body feels sharp spine compaction and your kiddneys and organs go whoah! or something like that.

Your final paragraph describes my issue.
I have adjustable dampening on my coilovers, as of now they are in the soft setting, would firming the dampening fix this? Make it better? or Gary get those things off of your car?

I think I will try firming them a couple of clicks and see how that does.

[mn box s]

Try going here = "http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=165687236&albumId=992312" for some reason Ive never been able to pics on this site... dont know if its a Mac thing? Looks like Ill need my buddies wife to do an update on pics.

Yeah Id try adjusting the dampning. It does also sound like the springs are over working your shocks. Do you think you could have blown the rears out?

Yes I just purchased Deluboz adjustable toe arm. Glad to here that it helped for you.

[renzop]

First let me say that everyone is certainly entitled to do what they want with their cars. But it makes me ill to think that people are taking one of the best handling cars on the planet and slamming it.

Your car was designed to have the minimum wheel travel based on car weight, spring rate and expected road irregularities. Basically the worst bump you might hit will compress the suspension almost to the bump stops.

Lowering springs shorten wheel travel. If you reduce wheel travel you have two choices. You can use stiffer spring rates so the worst bump you might encounter still won't hit the bump stops. Or you can use a lighter than needed rate and every once in a while the car will bottom out and hit the bump stops. Lets talk about why both these solutions are bad.

Very stiff spring rates make the car ride like crap. Furthermore your shocks were designed to control the bouncing of the stock rate springs. Putting in higher rate springs without getting shocks designed for those higher rates will lead to poor wheel control. After you hit a bump, the tire will continue to bounce up and down because the shock (or damper) cannot control the spring. Also the overworked shock can overheat leading to premature shock failure.

So what happens if you lower but don't raise spring rates enough? You hit the bump stops. When this happens going straight it will mostly result in you and the car suddenly stopping your downward motion. It will feel like you got hit in the a$$ from below. You probably will not hear anything other than your own cursing because bump stops are rubber or urethane. Of course you might hear your shocks crying for mercy. The easiest way to blow a shock is to bottom it out.

But worse still, is what happens if one corner of the car hits the bump stop when in a turn. Basically, its like the spring rate suddenly went to infinity at that corner. This can lead to extreme and immediate under or oversteer. The car will radically change direction. If this happens you probably won't hear it either; only the crunching of crashed metal.

Lowering the car an inch with lowering springs is fine. More than that and you need to redesign shocks, steering geometry, etc.

Just my opinion. Please don't take offense if you don't agree.

Regards,
Alan

[Gary in BR]

Originally Posted by Benny986

thats actually kinda of soft, and the range is interesting. i'm not too family with boxster spring setup, but is the 200lb difference front to rear normal?




From looking at other coil over setups most do not have spring rates this high most are in the 200 - 300 range.





i have 400s up front and 550 in the back. i also have a dual spring setup, so its actually a bit higher than that.



i also have higher canister pressures up front than out back. by about 100lbs i think.
my ride is very comfy.
are you on 19s? go back to 18s if so. what is your exact setup now? and describe how the car rides.


I am going to ride on my OEM 17s for a week and see how it feels, that way I can decide if its the coil overs or the low profile rims.





and by porpoising. do you mean that under acell, the front end seems to lift up? if so, i think our cars just do that.

Porpoising may not be the term, I read it a few places and it is close to describing what I have going on. When I hit a dip in freeway the rear of the car feels as if it lifts off the ground, and once I know for a fact it did. If I hit a bump the same thing happens it feels as if the rear of the car is near coming off the ground.

AS far as any other driving the car is just fine, firm but thats what I wanted, al I want to solve is the rear end feeling, When I drove with the 19s and OEM struts and Elbachs I don't recall ever feeling this.

[mn box s]

-Porpoising may not be the term, I read it a few places and it is close to describing what I have going on. When I hit a dip in freeway the rear of the car feels as if it lifts off the ground, and once I know for a fact it did. If I hit a bump the same thing happens it feels as if the rear of the car is near coming off the ground.


Have you ruled out hitting your bump stops? I have seen this occur under those circumstances.

[Gary in BR]

Hitting the bump stops is a high possibility.
Now I will feel like a retard but I would assume if it was hitting the bump stops I would hear it?
The car does not make any noises from the suspension.
Is there a way to see if its hitting the bump stops?