Premature Engine Failure - Boxster
 

I bought a 1997 boxster in April 2002. After a mere 4 months I have experienced an engine failure. The car is in very good condition and has done only 55,000 miles with a full porsche service history. I have now been quoted £9,500 UK Pounds (approx. $14,000 USD) to replace the engine.

Porsche UK and Germany have failed to deliver upon a request for support in the costs considering I could have achieved a much higher trouble free mileage with almost any other low cost car brand.

Porsche have now lost a lifelong customer as I was considering giving this car to my wife and buying a new shape boxster S in 2003.

BUYER BEWARE!

After writing serval letters of dissapointment to Porsche with little or no reponse other than aquick call to advise that they would not be providing any financial support I decided to call the local dealer sales office.

In short I was told that this (intermediate shaft) was not such a common failure (something i do not belive after much reading and discussion with other users). More disturbingly I was told that i expect to much of the porsche brand if i was crazy enough to belive that they would pay any costs of repair after 5 years.

The relvancy of 5 years i do not understand....55,000 miles for an engine i do understand to be very poor from a company like
Porsche.

Expect a small but informative website soon warning others and maybe an online petition against them. I am not one for complaining but their arrogance has pushed me too far!

This is a little off track. But, unlike some other sites, you are free to post what you like and don't like about your car. I have seen other people get flamed for speaking in a negative manner about their car. However, the truth of the matter is, this is an open forum so we can share with others what we know . If I decide to keep you from discussing a certain topic, it would be an injustice to the other members. Afterall its the information that lets us make informed decisions.

JT

As a first time/new owner, this scares me. Is this common?

I have recently picked up a 1999 model from the dealer. They have certified it and I have had them work on all oil seals under warranty when I saw a drop in my driveway. They had my car for a week and had 4 pages of work done.

This is my 20 mile freeway daily commuter (total both ways) with mild attitude. Factory warranty is due to expire in 5 months.

What are your opinions about Warranty Gold? Is is worth it or not?

Thank you in advance.

Paranoia
 

I too am a fairly new Boxster owner ('99 Boxster bought used). I have read a lot about engine failures over at PPBB and it has made me rather paranoid too. But, on the other hand, you would have to think that the odds are probably not that great that YOU will experience this kind of catastrophic failure. Knock on wood. Porsche did have some runs of bad (porous) engine blocks and such, the engine sleeve thing is another one. So far so good and mine has about 47K on it. Hope for the best and try to be less paranoid about it, that is about all you can do. I don't know anything about the Warranty Gold, but if it would give you peace of mind, I guess you should find out about it.

I appreciate being able to search the archives for posts like this. I am buying "near new" 97, with only 4200 miles. I am buying the warranty because of the porous block issues leading to engine failure. I have heard that Porsche has helped some people with this issue, even well out of warranty. I talked to Porsche N.A. yesterday, and the rep would not even comment on the problem. No denial, no admittance, just no comment. Our service rep at the local Porsche dealer told me about it when I took the car in for an inspection. He recommended the service agreement because of the cost of a new engine, and said that the 4200 miles is well under that amount that really "tests" to see if the engine block is sound.

I don't know if you are still a member of the club or read the boards, but thanks.

Thom
Indiana

The "catastrophic engine failure" issue is one that plagues us un-wealthy Porsche owners. I don't know what I would do if faced with a $14k engine replacement bill. That's more than half what I paid for the blinking thing!
Plus, it's like getting a car back after a serious crash ... it's never quite the same as it was before.
If the failure could be definately traced to some kind of known manufacturing defect (porous block, for example) I would think an uncooperative manufacturer might be made somewhat more cooperative by a discussion with an attorney. Maybe not a freebie motor, but some "help" anyway.
I would think that second, and subsequent, owners are in a much weaker position than an original owner, however.
Some years ago I had a leaky head gasket ruin the V-6 engine in a Chevy S10 pickup about 2000 miles after the warranty ran out. Fortunately I had complete maintenance doc showing oil changes, anti-freeze replacement, etc. In the end GM split the cost of a new engine with me, so it ended up costing me about $1,300 instead of twice that. An object lesson for keeping that Boxster maintenance record clean, guys! Two hundred dollar oil changes and $1000 major maintenance bills are expensive, but a lot less than having to swallow a new-engine bill.

I will be selling my 97 (38,000 miles) next summer because i can't quit thinking about catastrophic engine failure. Those words scare the hell out of me + I have been shopping for something with a little more power, mostly I have been looking at Lotus
Automon

i know all engines can go at any time, but is 97 the only year where this should be a major concern? I have a 2000 S and i defenately fall into the non-rich porsche owner market. :(

I think I have researched this as much as it can be researched online and by calling Porsche NA. From my "research", the issue was definitely worse in the 97-99 (first half) model years for the Boxster engine. The casting of the blocks was subbed out, and some of them were porous, some were not. There was to be a quality control inspector of all of the engines/blocks, but I don't know how that person could inspect the inside of casted metal to know if there were bubbles/etc. that could eventually leak. I suppose that could be done with x-ray technology or laser scanning (as is done with underground petroleum tanks for instance), but I don't know if Porsche did/does that or not.

Our local Porsche tech told me that they replaced "several" engines in the 97-99's, and Porsche paid for all of the ones under warranty. I am buying a 97, and because of the issue, I got it inspected and am purchasing the maintenance agreement. It will cost me $800/year, but I don't want to absorb a $12K (minimum)engine hit. As I understand also, there is not a "fix". Once the porous block issue occurs, it allows the gas and oil to mix and you may start to notice a sludge in the coolant check port, though I have read posts that say that there was no warning, just "catastrophic engine failure" to use one of our forum member's terms.

What happened to make the problem go away in 99? I can't find that information anywhere, but welcome it if any of our other members know the answer. Sleeving the cylinders in an attempt to fix leaks was apparently another major disaster, as the sleeves would come loose from the remaining outer portion due to improper seating problems, and then simply "seize up." Ouch.

If you put "porous block problems" (and don't specifically ask for Porsche), into your internet search engine, you will quickly find that it is not a unique problem to Porsche. Land Rover had big problems with it, as has Ford and Chevrolet. Many of them blame the "outsourcing" of casting and poor quality control, others don't blame or take blame. I guess we just hope that our motor got inspected, and gamble or not gamble with a maintenance contract if your car will pass the inspection, which certainly isn't a given. The other issue is maintenance agreements. They can be a curse or godsend. I am buying the one that our Porsche dealership reccs. just so they do the hassling with them, not me. Also, there are alot of fly by night sellers of maintenance agreements I am told, and when you turn in a claim, they are busted. se la vi when you are selling risk contracts.

Best to all.

Thom

Thanks thom! That certainly helps me breathe a little easier. although it is a complete drag for any 97-99 owners. :(

A LOTUS instead of a Porsche??? Talk about jumping from the frying pan into the fire ...
It could be that the new (to the US) Lotus Elise or Elois or whatever their E-word is this time, is a paragon of reliability. If so, that would run counter to forty or so years of Lotus tradition.
There may be many reasons for buying a Lotus instead of a Porsche, but expecting better reliability isn't one of them.
Automon, I beg you , I PLEAD with you, to remember:
Porsche. There is no substitute.

Agree, Porsche to Lotus IS a strange move!

I do not like Lotus, but if I understand correctlly they have gone to the Toyota Celica GTS motor.

Reliabilty can't be that bad with that type of motor.

Now the rest I cannot speak for...

thats what i dont get -- i dont find the elise good looking at all...looks like an eclipse ate an MR2 -- neither of which is particularlt good looking to me. and then to cram a toyota motor in there to boot? and have the nerve to charge $40,000 for it? i dont get it. I dont think the Lotus name carries that kind of weight.

I think the Elise would be a cool 4th car. But why don't you get an '04 S instead? There's terrific deals now and you'll get 4 years of "worry-free" warranty. :D

Hi, i cant understand some of the posts here.. getting rid of the boxster because you cant get engine failure out of your head...

Thats crazy... i mean there is more chances of having a blow out that engine failure... I must say this, stay away from lotus there ugly little go carts nothing more nothing less and one crash in a lotus kiss your ass good bye. The people who buy lotus are after cheap thrills, stick with porsche i mean you cant call every porsche boxster engine problem beware just because of a few problems.. as for me i wouldnt like the idea of an engine failure but everything is repairable.. The whole idea of owning a boxster/porsche is not paying the monthly payments but the running and repair bills. I suppose i am lucky as my boxster is paid for so any problems i have with it aint that much of a problem. But i will never get shot of my boxster.. and NEVER consider a lotus which stands for lots of trouble usually serous.

my dad has a ferrari 355 and he thinks the boxsters shape, sound and performance is awsome. As for boxster power the boxster is a powerful car but its also practical. I bought my boxster for the amazing looks, handling, and at 221 bhp its not a slow car. I dont think a lotus even plays in the same park as the boxster.

Has anyone looked inside of an elsie at a garage, i have its a joke... it looks like a kids play car.. i mean how are you supposed to control this car.. windy day, doing about 90mph over a bump, hood down... you will take off..

I havent seen or heard one good thing about the lotus elsie.
Also that MR2 spider, there are hundreds of them things all over the road.. my friend who owns a 2001 boxster also told me the people who drive the mr2 spider cant afford a boxster so they buy the wanna be boxster..

stick with porsche.. ;)


inside of an elise .. what a joke..
http://216.117.199.231/Lotus-Elise/Lotus-Elise-004.jpg

check this pic out.. its a shame they have to spce the car to make it stand out..

http://users.pandora.be/B-Art/top/fo...se%20Tiger.JPG

Jeez, it does look like an MR2. Which I don't think is a bad little car at all. It's just that it is in an entirely different class from a Boxster.
Whaddaya think those stripes would look like on a Speed Yellow Box? Way cool!!!

So how do you guys really feel about Lotus? WOW you guys hate the idea. I will remember this quote because i think that it is great
"NEVER consider a lotus which stands for lots of trouble usually serous." I am not looking at the Elise I am looking at the Esprit I have always loved this car and i want one period. Tell me that this car is not beautiful. I think that it is just time for a change I will own another Porsche at some point in my life.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2486764933&catego ry=6312


Thanks for the feedback
Automon

yer nice looking car... my friend who owns a garage has one in getting a new spoiler on and yer its a great looking machine but the cost of repairs is scary... when something goes wrong with a lotus its normally a big thing.. but its still a great looking car dude, thats the esprint NOT the elise...

but yer an esprint looks nice..

anyone seen that usa tv show PIMP YOUR RIDE..???

They had a old shape esprint in and wow they turned it into something i would kill for lol it looked amazing..
amagine what they could do to a boxster ...

yes i think the esprit is in a different class than a boxster (well, the V8 twin turbo anyway). Im not a huge fan of the huggy-bear-diamond-pattern-seats, but overall a VERY nice car. i think we all thought you were talking about the elise -- which is not in the same class as the esprit (or boxster for that matter) :D

Automon, with all due respect, the Esprit was badass in the '80s and early '90s but are somewhat "disco" now. Their chassis dates back to, what, the '70s? Reliablility is horrible. And remember how they were in bed with Isuzu? Look at the steering wheel in that Esprit...it's an Isuzu steering wheel! Uggh. Well, I guess Porsche does have VW parts...but let's not go there. :D

Anyway, good luck with whatever you buy but keep in mind that you will most likely be trading a worry for a lot bigger worry.

I just love the look of the car disco or not but my wife agrees with the rest of you she does not like it much at all. She keeps asking me what you guys think about the Lotus and it is funny because I tell her that all of you are on board with my decision.
Thanks again
Automon

I don't know if anyone else responded to your statement but yes, the Elisa uses Toyota's 1.8 4-cylinder, exact same as the Celica GTS but with more tuning for slightly more hp & torque.

Couldn't agree more.

talk about resurrecting an old thread! Geez, this one is over four years old!

Hi,

No disrespect, but you haven't a clue what you're talking about. My 22 year old Turbo Esprit will run circles and blow the doors off 99% of all current models out there. The dated chassis you refer to will go 1.12G on a skidpad, something no stock Porsche will do.

In bed with Isuzu? Clearly you don't understand Lotus. Lotus is essentially two halves forming one company, the limited production manufacturing side and Lotus Engineering.

Lotus Engineering provides more than 50% of all revenues to the company by doing engineering work for many other car manufacturers. The Delorean, Toyota MR2, Vauxhall VX220, even the Aston Martin DB9 all had chassis work done by Lotus, so what if Isuzu also contracted with them? Lotus also developed the LT1 Engine for Chevy when GM owned Lotus ('86-'89) (though they don't brag about it - little wonder). And, let's not forget that the Lotus 910 engine (which powered the 1st 5 generations of the Esprit) also powered the Jensen-Healey before the Esprit was even released with little reliability issues. An Esprit is as reliable as you want to make it. It requires more frequent maintenance, but that's engineering, not reliability.

And, FYI, the stock Esprit Steering Wheel is a MOMO Wheel (and much nicer than any Porsche Wheel) with a proprietary Horn Button, not from some Isuzu parts bin! No Isuzu parts have ever been used in an Esprit or any other Lotus Car...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Jim.

I think Lotus engineered the ZR-1 (LT-5) motor for Corvette, not the LT-1. That was the engine that was produced for GM by Mercury Marine and had 32 valves etc.

If this is correct, then Lotus SHOULD brag about that engine, as it was a terror. I had a red 1990 zr-1 and it was freaky fast for its day.

See below.

During 1986, General Motors acquired Group Lotus, the UK based engineering consulting and performance car manufacturing firm. The Corvette division approached Lotus with the idea of developing the world's fastest production car, to be based on the C4 generation Corvette. With input from GM, Lotus designed a new engine to fit in place of the L98 V8 that was powering the standard C4. The result was what GM dubbed the LT5, an aluminum-block V-8 with the same bore centers as the L98, but with four overhead camshafts, 32 valves. Lotus also designed a unique air management system for the engine to provide a wider power band by shutting off 8 of the 16 intake runners and fuel injectors when the engine was at part-throttle, while still giving the ZR-1 a stellar 375 hp when at wide open throttle.

In addition to the engine, Lotus helped GM design the ZR-1's upgraded braking and steering systems, and helped them pick the settings for the standard "ZX3" active suspension system that Chevrolet was fitting to the car, helping to ensure that the vehicle was more than just a modern-day muscle car with a big engine and no real capability on the track.

GM found that the engine required special assembly, and that neither the Corvette plant in Bowling Green Kentucky nor any of their normal production facilities could handle the workload, so Mercury Marine corporation of Oklahoma was contracted to assemble the engines and ship them to the Corvette factory in Bowling Green where the ZR-1s were being assembled.

The vehicle went on sale in 1990 and was available only as a coupe. It was distinguishable from other Corvette coupes by its wider tail section, 11" wide rear wheels and its new convex rear fascia with four square shaped taillights and a CHMSL (center high mounted stop lamp) attached to the top of the hatch glass instead of between the taillights.

The ZR-1 displayed stunning ability both in terms of acceleration and handling capabilities, but carried with it an astonishingly high price. MSRP for the ZR-1 in 1990 was $58,995, almost twice the cost of a non-ZR-1, and had ballooned to $66,278 by 1995; it has been rumored that some dealers successfully marked units as high as $100,000. Even at base MSRP, this meant that the ZR-1 was competing in the same price bracket as cars like Porsche's 964, making it a hard sell for GM dealers.

Hi,

You're right! It was the ZR-1 Engine. What I meant about bragging was that Chevy, and the General, didn't go out of the way to tell the World that another Car Co. designed their best engine. Unlike Isuzu, Chevy didn't add any Lotus Badges to the car...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

That was just a great engine. The one I had was modded a bit and man, the acceleration was brutal.

These cars are now future collector cars IMHO and if I had the room and dough, I would start collecting while the prices are reasonable.

MNboxster, do you have any insight on the Javan r1?

I am a HUGE lotus fan, and I am going to buy an elise in 07, but I just heard about this Javan R1 which is 500 lbs lighter than an elise, and uses a honda k20 engine (same one used in the s2k I believe) making 220hp.

It's only in England now, and is priced at the equivalent of $60,000 USD..

After hearing about this car, I am gonna have a tough time justifying the purchase of my lotus.

Any insight from you?

Hi,

I can only tell you what I've been told by some friends across the pond and the press reports I've seen.

The main difference between the Elise and the Javan r1 is that the Javan is much more of a Kit Car. It has that Kit Car feel to it whereas the Elise feels like a manufactured car. Plus, the Javan r1, from what I know, is only available in RHD, which may make a difference to some.

One UK friend, who has driven it, compared it to the early TVRs in that it does go like stink, but doesn't inspire real confidence.

There are lots of these fringe cars out there, limited production cars which can be very satisfying, but which may be short-lived, especially when it comes to future parts availability.

And, personally, 60 large is too much to pay for a fun-only car of this ilk. Were it me, I'd take the $60k and plop it as a dwn. pymnt. on a Noble M400, or on a classic such as an Elite, early Jag, Healey, Porsche or Merc. - something which will appreciate in value, but hey, that's me...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Oh yeah, I don't want a kit car either. I was under the impression it would be coming to the states.

If I was going for a kit car I'd just buy an ultima can-am and saved 30 grand :)


Thanks. I guess lotus is still at the top of my list.

Speaking of kit cars, I keep my eyes peeled for the old kit car Ferrari Daytona that used to be on Miami Vice.

I passed on one several years ago and am still kicking myself for that.

Engine Failure
 

I just received the dreaded call that my 2006 Boxster S has a catastrophic engine failure and will need to be replaced at a nominal fee of $15,000. We never missed a scheduled service and always took the car to the Porshe dealer for service. The car has 56,000 miles on it and is just out of warranty the service manager smugly told me. He said Porsche might help with the bill but after reading these posts I know that's not going to happen. The lesson I learned here is that although Porsche has a good brand name and you don't expect trouble get an extended warranty because these cars aren't all that. I was going to trade up next year but this has changed my mind and I no longer see Porsche the same way. There is something inherently wrong with this car engine and I am hopeful they figure out what it is. I expect to one day see a recall for this engine.

holy thread ressurection batman!


really sucks man sorry to hear... so what failed

Have you had the Boxster since new? If you have, you might have a better chance of Porsche covering your new engine. I would also find a new dealership, because it sounds like they have a bad attitude already. Sorry to hear about your loss.

Interesting that the '06 engine has failed.. We are just starting to see the "new" IMS bearings beginning to fail and it would be interesting to know if thats what your failure is.

BUT get a second opinion by someone that believes in repairing these engines. Lots of things that "down" an engine at the dealership are actually repairable with a little bit of innovation and elbow grease.. Problem is most dealershios just want to do oil changes and engine swaps.

BTW- With certain failures the frequency of service and how well an engine is cared for simply do not matter... Changing the oil in the engine doesn't ever impact the lubrication of the IMS bearing..

That sucks man. Look at some other posts. People have been successful with getting Porsche to cover the engine costs.

Jake: I was wondering when you might start seeing 987 engines with failed IMS bearings. If I understand correctly, that one cannot be changed without a full teardown as the opening in the block is actually smaller than the bearing itself.

Chris

We've already been seeing them, just not in higher numbers. As these cars come out of warranty over the next few months I know we'll see an increase.

The bad part of it with the '06 and newer engines is the fact that the bearing is larger than the access port in the crankcase. What that means is an absolute impossibility of bearing retrofit as the old bearing cannot be removed.

When one of these bearings starts to go bad, the engine is 100% compromised. Wonderful execution by the engineers, wonderful.