Brake Upgrade Question

[aussieboxy]

Thanks insite I'll start looking for the cailpers & rotors of an S

[edevlin]

IMO, it depends on what you are trying to do with the car, for me, weight, especially rotating mass makes a noticable difference in the performance of the car. I am not sure how much weight is added with the S-brakes, but if it is much, I dont think I would be interested, have fun,

Ed

[insite]

Originally Posted by edevlin

IMO, it depends on what you are trying to do with the car, for me, weight, especially rotating mass makes a noticable difference in the performance of the car. I am not sure how much weight is added with the S-brakes, but if it is much, I dont think I would be interested, have fun,

the calipers weigh the same. the rotors are a little bit heavier. not noticable when driving, imo. either way, the brake upgrade easily knocked 1.5sec off my lap times at TGPR. WAY more confidence in the pedal; easy to go very deep into the corners. one of the best upgrades i've done to the car (from a track perspective).

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

For the Track, it's a worthwhile upgrade, but unless Tracking the car regularly, it's a waste of money.

A Street Car doesn't have the constant ON/OFF of the brakes that a Track car does. There's plenty of time between Brake applications to cool things off.

The pads will wear more quickly and generally cost more (though not always).

Add to this that you adjust to your brakes, for better brakes, you will apply them later which essentially negates the miniscule distance advantage they have.

You could gain all the advantages and save the weight and expense by going to either a more agressive pad, or adding insulators to the pads you have. Then get a Paint Kit and paint them Red if you want the look...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[insite]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

For the Track, it's a worthwhile upgrade, but unless Tracking the car regularly, it's a waste of money.

i would have thought so. there are some things i really like about the upgrade, even on the street. particularly, i always felt with my base brakes that i had to push the pedal too hard to get the car to stop properly. in fact, under heavy braking, the brake pedal would dip below the throttle, making tough work of a clean heal and toe. the new setup cured this issue (which was NOT pad related; trust me).

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

The pads will wear more quickly and generally cost more (though not always).

in many cases this is true. in the case of the 996 upgrade, the pads have a larger surface are AND are thicker, resulting in longer life. the downside is that the pads generally cost more, negating any real gain. i think in the long run i'll break even on pads.

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

You could gain all the advantages and save the weight and expense by going to either a more agressive pad, or adding insulators to the pads you have. Then get a Paint Kit and paint them Red if you want the look...

this is true, but the more aggressive pads tend to suck in the cold and eat up your rotors. that's been my experience. unless you get a great deal on the upgrade calipers, jim's probably right that it's cheaper in the long run to just use aggressive pads. i still would have done the upgrade knowing what i know now. as for the paint, i have to do that anyway. bought mine off a 996, so they're black.

[aussieboxy]

Ok so now I'm leaning towards more agressive pads rather than a brake upgrade as I don't track the car.

Which pads are best and do they make a difference to rotor wear?

[racer_d]

Originally Posted by aussieboxy

Ok so now I'm leaning towards more agressive pads rather than a brake upgrade as I don't track the car.

Which pads are best and do they make a difference to rotor wear?

Pads can make a huge difference in brake feel and grip. Usually the trade off is dust and squeaky noises. And yes, some can hurt rotors more than you might think.

What pads are you currently running?

[insite]

Originally Posted by aussieboxy

Ok so now I'm leaning towards more agressive pads rather than a brake upgrade as I don't track the car.

Which pads are best and do they make a difference to rotor wear?

pads make a HUGE difference on the track. i cannot stress this enough. you will be truly amazed at the difference in feel & high temp torque. race pads are definitely tougher on your rotors, but it's a good trade off. racer_d is right that they'll squeak like hell. they also suck when it's cold.

for those reasons, i have a dedicated set of track pads. it's WAY cheaper in the long run, because race pads last long on the track, street pads last long on the street, and street pads are easier on your rotors.

i like pagid orange and hawk ht-10. i have the hawk right now. personally, i like them better than the pagid. next on my list to try is carbotech. i hear GREAT things about them. one positive of carbotech is this: most race pads are a ferrocarbon compound (carbon & iron). these mix with your rotors under heat to make a different crystilline metal out of your rotor surfaces (can't remember which one; austenite maybe?). anyway, carbotech are a carbon-carbon compound, so your rotors don't harden.

the hardening process is bad for the rotor for two reasons: first, it doesn't happen evenly, so you get high and low spots on the rotor leading to inconsistent pad contact. second, it has a lower friction coefficient (pad material doesn't stick as well to it, limiting adhesive friction forces).

i'm probably telling you WAY more than you needed to know about brakes, but here's more: there are two types of friction, basically, that brakes use. one is abrasive. this is where the pad material and rotor material actually experience broken chemical bonds from the process physically shearing away material. the other is adhesive friction. this is what race pads do. they actually stick a layer of pad material to the rotor. then, the pad is constantly forming and breaking bonds with this transfer layer. it's a chemical reaction that happens over and over at high temp. it's for this reason that race rotors are often thicker after a race than before it. i will shut up now.