Off topic-gun ownership
 

I know it's not Porsche related but since the members here on the forum represent almost the whole country, I'm looking for some advice from those with knowledge. With all the BS going on in this country and crazy people and crime at an all time high, I have been thinking its time for me to exercise my 2nd amendment right to bear arms. I live in California and have never owned or fired a gun before. What is the best way for me to purchase, educate, learn and train to be a responsible gun owner? I don't have much of an interest in guns, but unfortunately I feel it's time to have one to protect my home if necessary-any gun owners out there with advice?

If you are not familiar or comfortable with firearms, take a class. In Florida, unless you are active duty or retired military and you desire to carry concealed, you must take a class. The class teaches the four firearm safety rules and you spend time on the range where you can handle a variety of weapons from revolvers to semi-automatics.

Revolvers are bulky (IMO) for concealed carry, but they are point and shoot, no need to chamber a round. Semi-automatic have a smaller profile and are easy to conceal. A .22 if put in the right location will stop a bad guy just as a 9mm or .357. If you miss w/a .22, you better be able to out run them.

Most semi-automatics have a 10 round magazine (not a clip). If you can't get the job done in 10 rounds, again, you better be a fast runner.

Unfortunately, the only place I don't carry is at work. For some silly reason, you're prohibited from carrying on a military base. Hopefully a change will come around, especially after the results of Ft. Hood.

My preference is a compact Kel-Tec 9mm; light, no safety, but a long trigger pull which acts as the safety and ammo is readily available. If I'm going to a movie, I carry a Walther .22. Fits comfortably in my pocket where I can draw it from a seated position if necessary.

Lastly, best advise, train, train, train. If you can't shoot, have a good throwing arm. You might get lucky and hit them between the eyes when you chuck the empthy weapon at them.

Like you I live in California and in a small town where it is unlikely I would ever have use for a weapon. Years ago, as a youth, I owned a 22 semi automatic rifle and took a course on handling, firing and care of a weapon. I don't remember who it was through but I also recommend you do the same if considering owning a firearm. I had not owned a firearm until I saw what the youth gangs did to the elderly after the earthquake in Haiti and decided that it was time to own one again. I decided on a Chinese made assault shotgun with an 18" barrel. Just to look at it makes me want to run and I'm hoping it would do the same to an intruder, or group of intruders. If not I have 00 buck and one ounce slugs to convince them to run...or die.:cheers:

Safety is the first thing you'll need to learn, and be able to teach to anyone you handle guns with. That really is the most important thing. Then you need to learn to operate your guns which requires practice at the range. Having a gun is less than useless if you are not proficient with it. Hoping to scare a threat off with a gun is wishful, and dangerous thinking. If you pull a gun, kill a man, that way there's only one story to tell - G Gordon Liddy. Seriously, you'll need a course in gun law right out of the box, and then take it from there. The last thing to come to grips with is if you really want to shoot someone if that is what it takes to stop a threat. You'll live with that the rest of your life. Hiding / running away is a viable, and maybe less dangerous alternative. Doing so with a gun in your hand affords extra insurance.

If you elect to buy a gun get a lot of training. One on one training is the best. Then, practice practice practice. Dry fire, live fire .. practice. In addition to being proficient with the firearm, work on being mentally prepared when to use it and when not to. Be well educated on the laws dealing with using deadly force. Talk to the experts and learn which firearm would be best for you needs.

Take a safety course...
 

...learn how to safely operate the weapon.

Never point the barrel at anything you are not willing to destroy.

Never put your finger on the trigger until your sights are on your target.

If you can't see it, don't shoot it.

For home defense, get a Remington 870 pump shotgun and load it with #4 bird shot.

The sound of you "pumping" the shotgun is the universal signal to get out of the house because you know what comes next.

#4 bird shot is lethal at bed to door distance, but won't punch through the walls of your apartment and hurt the baby in the next room.

For personal carry or glove box, get a Smith & Wesson "Air Weight" .38 revolver. It's small, light, and will not jam. You pull the trigger, and it fires. Every time. Five shots is enough for most situations.

If you decide you want a semi-auto with a high capacity magazine, it's hard to beat a Glock or a Springfield Armory XD series gun. Both offer 9mm with 19 round magazines.

I would stick with a revolver, however, because they have no safety to fool with, have less chance for accidental discharge, are simple, won't jam, and you can hand it to a spouse or child or co-worker if everything is going to crap and THEY can shoot it without thinking or training.

Load a pistol with Hornady "Personal Defense" ammo or Speer "Gold Dot" ammo and you have a very effective load.

Finally....Practice, Practice, Practice.

Shooting a weapon in anger at someone who is trying to kill you is NOT easy.

Good luck.

Be safe.

I'll weigh in on this one. This will be all my opinion, but I can back my opinion with results - 1990 Canadian champion, ISU Standard Pistol

A handgun is difficult to shoot well and requires much training. Mastering the basic fundamentals is key.

I started with an good quality air pistol, a Feinwekrbau. This allows you to master your fundamentals before dealing with the noise and recoil. Starting with too much gun too soon can cause you to develop a flinch which can be difficult to overcome. Practice until your group is smaller than a dime at that 10 meter distance.

From there I moved on to a .22. The Ruger Mark III is an excellent choice for starters - reliable and accurate. Again, this allows you to further your skills while still having minimal noise and recoil to deal with.

With this method of training I found I could fire any centerfire handgun accurately. I particularly liked the .44. I've had S&W 29's, Redhawks and Super Blackhawks and I can guarantee you that you won't hit squat with these guns if you haven't developed a good skill set first.

Now, as far as what gun would I carry for defense (if we were allowed to do that here in Canada), my first choice would be an accurized 1911 in 45 ACP. That's totally a personal preference as that gun just worked for me. A good choice that would work for just about anyone would be the .40 Glock - hard-hitting, accurate, reliable, lightweight, and relatively easy to fire well.

Get into competition and shoot regularly. Practice your draw and be totally comfortable with the gun you choose. Be fully prepared and committed to using it should the situation arise.

If we're talking home defense here, I wouldn't use a handgun. A good short-barrelled 12 gauge is the way to go. My preference here would be the Winchester Defender, probably the fastest cycling pump out there, with practice of course. Five aimed and controlled shots in under 2 1/2 seconds is quite achievable.

I didn't think about a shotgun. That may be a better more visible deterent.

Indeed it is...
 

...there is an old saying, "A handgun is something you pick up on your way to your long gun."

If it's home defense, yes, shotgun all the way. And I will go along with the Winchester Defender.

Remington 870 is also great.

Mossbergs are cheap and reliable.

Actually, most crime in most places is at historic lows. For most of us (depending on where we live and our age), it is less likely that we'll be a victim than at any other time during our lives. But there have been some highly publicized events that have many people frightened.

Like others have said, practice, practice, practice. Personally, I won't carry a gun, as it is so unlikely that I'll ever need a gun that it just isn't worth the hassle of carrying one. Mark_T is right, a shotgun is the way to go for home defense. It's really a safer weapon (less likely to have an accident with it), and like someone else said, the sound of one chambering a round is universally understood that something bad is about to happen.

Threads like this are why I like this forum. There is a lot of knowledge floating around here be it on defensive driving, tires, or guns. I don't always comment but I'm always reading and learning.

Thanks to all those who contribute to the wealth of knowledge present here.

I'll be looking at getting a gun some point later in my life. Not a concern for now, but it's still nice to learn.

Guns
 

Your'e in SoCal, go to your local gunshop be it Turners or any other reputable shop and take your gun safety test there. Believe there is a small fee but they will run you thru it. They can help you out in familiarizing you with handguns and if you decide to purchase, there is a 10 day wait. I just sold a handgun to a friend and he just went thru it in the store. Good luck. I'm off to the range tomorrow!

The comment about the shotgun was dead on...they hear you rack a round in the chamber and that pucker factor kicks in straightaway. For home defense a 12 gauge shotgun can't be beat, though I'd load it with at least buck shot and my preference is for slugs. Remember if you have to use it you want it to count as it is your life likely on the line.

As far as handguns, as many others have said find a place that let's you try quite a few. The tiny subcompact pistols are neat in that they fit in the palm of your hand, but they are very difficult to be accurate with. Most also have tiny little jokes for sights. The new glock 43 is a great option as you have the reliable glock system with actual sights in a compact package. Try everything though. Every gun has its own quirks, maintenance needs, operation methods.

If you can find a firearms class that will be well worth it. It also will be something to protect you in the awful case that you used your weapon and the person that forced you to use it on has family that thinks they were a choir boy and goes after you with a lawyer. Doubt it would happen, but in today's world you never know. At least you can say you had training that way.

Best of luck to you.

Another option might be a Taurus Judge revolver. With a five round capacity and the ability to use both .45 ACP and 410 ga. shotshells at the same time. One can alternate 410s and 45s or use all of one or the other. The pistol is named the Judge because it is reputed to be a favorite of judges, and is carried in and out of the courtroom.
Practice is the key.

Though I prefer trap, I may consider sporting clays: Watch a marksman go clay shooting from a Porsche 911

Totally agree with this post. If you haven't owned a gun and this is for home defense, a Mossberg 500/590 or Remington 870 tactical is the way to go.

In CA, you aren't going to be able to conceal carry a pistol anyway, so no point in even thinking about that option. Plus, there is a lot less "pain and suffering" associated with buying a shotgun vs a pistol out here.

Now, you DO have to be careful about what ammo you use, as 00 buck will go right through sheet rock. If you have kids, or others in the house, you may want to consider #4 shot - and NOT magnum! 2 3/4 is fine!

Not in CA my friend :-)

I 100% agree with this, a shotgun if the best option if you are looking for home defense, and do not have any interest in shooting as a hobby. (A handgun requires aim and practice.) With a shotgun you don't really need to aim, and with the correct ammunition you can be less worried about a stray round going through a wall. I personally like the Mossberg 500.

If you are new to firearms definitely take a class and learn the basics. :cheers:

Yep, this crazy stuff is going to get worse before it gets better. I have owned rifles and shotguns all my life and it's time to stock up and spend some quality time on the range.

I agree with most of the other posters. If you really want to own a gun for home defense in CA, get a 12 GA shotgun and train with it regularly. Maybe take up skeet as a hobby to get you out to the range monthly. A gun is like a dog and needs regular exercise, care, and feeding. A gun in the house that you are not completely familiar with is more dangerous to you than the bad guys.

In addition, I recommend layers of security so that going for the 12 GA is never your first move when taken by surprise in your sleep, but your last resort when fully awake and aware. A gated property, dog for early warning, motion sensor outdoor lighting, big azz lock hardware, and a can of bear spray, all offer you a non-lethal opportunity for the bad guy to re-think entering your house and taking two in the chest. It also buys you a lot of time to get fully awake and aware, know his location, call the cops and take a strong defensive position if this perp really does want in. If you do have to make a mess in your house, you did everything right to try and stop him first

Good luck!

A new can of wasp & hornet spray will shoot 30ft & temporarily blind someone if it gets in their eyes. That gives you time to restore your night vision from sleeping & get you weapon. :matchup:

I sure wouldn't unleash a can of bear spray in the house!!!!

Some good information here.

Police Officers are well trained and have a 15-25 percent hit probability in street encounters when they fire their guns. It is one thing to shoot a paper target in a sterile environment. It is another to have an armed suspect firing at you and returning fire. Practice and mental preparation is so important.

Great advice all!

My father gave me my first .22 rifle when I was 12 yrs old (I know, heresy today, but pretty common back in those days) and have owned many, many firearms over the many years and fired over 20,000 rounds.

The single reason that I use my 9mm Glock for home protection is that I can keep it in a quick access gun storage container that can be kept just about anywhere in the house whereas storing a shot gun (because of the size) can can limit the storage locations.

Several years ago, a very mentally ill person (deranged and dangerous) tried to break into my house thru the locked french doors that lead onto our rear deck while we were at home. I got the Glock out in about 10 sec's and stood guard in the family room waiting to see if he would gain entrance while my wife locked the kids in our bedroom and got on the phone to 911.

We waited an eternity of 10 mins before the police arrived with the guy screaming and hammering on the doors while my wife pled with the dispatcher to tell the cops to hurry! Ultimately, the police arrived before he gained access but it still required 4 cops and 20 mins to subdue him and get him into the police car.

We live in a beautiful suburb in LA where there is almost no crime to speak of - don't think that it can't happen just because of where you live.

Scary stuff! Something similar happened to my family when I was a kid. Luckily the cops where out pretty quick but it also took 4 cops to hold the guy down, cuff him and get him into the back off the squad car. Great neighborhood with very little crime so you never know.

This old adage certainly comes to mind...

"When seconds count, the police are just minutes away..."

Glad all worked out ok for you and your family :)

When I lived in a small town in Upstate NY an intruder broke into my home late in the night. He had been in the house for a while before my wife and I were alerted and woke up. What woke us up, was our 100lb German White Shepherd confronting him at the bedroom door. He ran down the stairs and was vanishing down the street before I got to the door. I now have variety of guns secured in the house and my wife is also trained to use them.

A favorite pic of my old dog:
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1450552021.jpg

Epilogue: The next day, the girlfriend of the intruder came by our house to apologize. He was a DJ who had left a party quite drunk and had known a previous tenant of our house. Our back door had been unlocked and he came in to 'crash for a while'. Had I shot him, instead of having him chased out of my house, it would have been ...regrettable. Bottom line, I will not hesitate to use deadly force if my family is in jeopardy, but I will not make the decision lightly, or blindly fire at an intruder.

Some of the marketing and lobbying efforts of the NRA can be very annoying to me, but the safety and proficiency training through affiliated groups is top notch. NRAInstructors.org - Portal for NRA Certified Instructors, NRA Education and Training

Just read the brief on this. Interesting stuff. Absurd, but interesting. Is CA the only state with this specific... not sure what it is? Not being an owner of any of these won't effect my avoidance of your lovely state.

Not to sound like a conspiracy nut..............Given the uncertainty of things politically bragging about your arsenal (most of you guys have not) online isn't very bright.

Yes, we give up quite a bit politically to live in the nice weather and job market...

.45 ACP for me. I open carry plus have a CCW.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1473802616.jpg

What reactions do you get from people when open carrying?

Does not matter. It's legal to do so and I love watching the liberals cringe.

I figured that would be your response. That fits the profile of most of the open carry guys I've seen.

Why drag up this disgusting spew masquerading as a discussion thread?
This is a car forum.

:barf:

Then you'd be supportive of doing away with the "Off Topic" forum section?

Most definitely ;)

"Off Topic" section (as in, not the Porsche 986 Boxster, but maybe still car related :rolleyes:) or not, this is still a car forum. Take the little **** political gun debate to a gun forum. ;)
Unless your intent on this site is to create rifts within our community, topics like this have no business here. How is that not obvious?

Nothing says you can't stick your tongue into a wall socket, either. That doesn't mean it's a good idea. :rolleyes:

Back on Topic
 

I carry a S&W featherweight .38 most of the time because it's so light I don't even know I have it on. Sometimes I carry my 9mm Glock. I have a CCW, but sometimes, given what I'm wearing I end up open carrying -- which is legal in Ohio. The only comment I ever got was, "Exercising your rights, huh?"

German cars and German guns...Sig Sauer and H&K are well built pistols. If you are a first time buyer I would go to a gun range and take advantage of their rentals to see what you like and can handle. Practice once you have one.

And I guess none of your conversations ever divert from the original topic. Sheesh. Since this is the 986 forum, we better not discuss ANYTHING else, to include 987s, 911s, Gemballas, cats, etc. Better stick on topic. :barf:

Here's an idea: if you don't like a topic, don't participate, just move on, or should we all conform to your expectations? Here's another idea: start your own forum and run it the way you want.

Actually, we don't talk about cats. Not anymore, anyway.