How Worried Are You About IMS?
 

How worried are you about an IMS failure?

Needs another option- Not worried, I upgraded
 

Just sayin'.

Yeah, I kind of assumed that anyone who had upgraded wasn't too worried about it anymore...

What are the failure numbers? 1%, 2%...? If it's too high it should be a recall issue.

DenverSteve, the only people who know the answer is Porsche and they ain't talking.

I always liked the saying: "Don't worry be happy"

I mean come on guys, what other car that you have had where you worry so much about what might happen in the future??

Drive it, be happy and don't worry. If it craps out on you then you either fix it or buy another at that time. Till then drive it and enjoy it.


:cheers:

It's an internet forum phenomenon. Every car board has a freak-out issue. It would be an awesome psychology paper.

blue2000s said: "It's an internet forum phenomenon. Every car board has a freak-out issue. It would be an awesome psychology paper."

You nailed it right on the head! :cheers:

Yes Sir. I was reading on another forum today and a poster said there is a "27% engine failure rate on Boxster engines". So look to your right, then to your left and one of you.....
mass hysteria.

Not that it isn't real, but people are sheep. It's a self defense mechanism.

The 27% person needs to be called out. Spreading crap like that doesn't do anyone any good. Where was that post?

He was :)

This forum has had at least four ims failures. given the small membership I think that's significant. As far as I can recall they were all members before the failure. One shop, well known, hinted at getting 150 calls a year. Just do it. The more people know this can be addressed for the price of of a flat screen tv the better it will be on resale values. Porsche should be doing these with every clutch job as an upgrade. It would drive more business their way as people would not put the clutch off so long

There are over 28,600 registered members of this board. 4 failures is less than 0.15% of that none of which is very scientific but it goes to show how incomplete statistics can be made to support any claim.

Too many unknown factors. Have the failures been on: vehicles bought new or used by the effected owner?; have they had all their required (major and minor) maintenance?, were they modified, raced, abused? Also, only a very small percentage of owners (of any vehicle type) are forum members. I belong to a forum for my other vehicle too - a Jeep Wrangler. The Wrangler forum is replete with problem after problem. I've never had a single issue. The same when I had my Cayenne (never a single problem). I buy my vehicles, meticulously maintain them and drive them like I stole them (so to speak).

There seems to be a disproportionate number of "failures" on forums than in "the real world". Most of the catastrophic or major failures I have seen are from people who bought those vehicles used. Forums, frequently, are the breeding grounds for not only good information but misinformation and scare mongers. I'm not saying there's not a good reason to inspect the IMS when a clutch job is done, I just don't think it's a sky-is-falling situation.

I have also seen a disproportionate number of forum members - on several forums - who have way more problems with their vehicles than the average owner. I can't say why, I've simply observed it. It's just up to forum members (us) to evaluate the information and mentally weed out the quality information, trolls and mongers - and sometimes it's hard. All present company excluded. ;)

that would infer that all 28,600 have posted even once. I doubt more than 50 of those 28K ever regularly post (once a month) before they sell the car and abandon the log in. I didn't intend it to be a statiscal point on cars vs failures. More anecdotal on regular posters v. failures. If four IMS failures randomly happened to forum members here then it is what it is -- freaky coincidence. But everything else I've heard from people who work on these cars doesn't make it sound so random.

Largely the fault of the manufacturer for not putting out the "true numbers".
Well obviously they would have to be in a position to even report said numbers by actually acknowledging it. No such humanitarianism and philanthropy coming out of Porsche. I guess they didn't want to go there for good reason. If a well-known shop is claiming four reported IMS failures a week then I'm really mystified why the manufacturer wouldn't make an effort to reach out to that shop and its affiliates. I'm more than sure that they already have these numbers for the out of warranty rollers that were brought into their dealerships but those must be minor since the car is a total wash at that point.
Since this the age of the internet you can't keep a lid on something forever. Sooner or later those reported numbers leak out and people start to see (possibly) that the number of catastrophic failures, although still "lottery ticket" minor, are well above industry average.

Then the onus would be on the owners of cars who have experienced the same catastrophic failure to contact Porsche and file a class-action suit on behalf of all Porsche owners and force a recall/inspection. It has to be the group who has been damaged by such a loss. With all the lawyer's who are Porsche owners one would certainly take the case Pro Bono for his/her own assurance & protection if nothing else. If it has merrit. I would think a national Porsche Owner's Group would also step up of there was a need.

Well suing a deep-pocketed manufacturer without some deep pockets of your own can be hazardous if they shoot back. The number of those types of cases that even get to a jury, at which point millions would have been spent to survive that long, are tiny and those that get past high-priced 'experts' witnesses testifying that the manufacturer didn't do anything wrong are miniscule. Most lawyers won't pony up that kind of risk.

Like I said, you can use numbers to support any story. Now you're trying to slant it in other direction with the same data by rationalizing. Which is equally as useless as my example was.

That sounds statistical in nature to me.

Full disclosure - I've had my IMS replaced with the stainless/ceramic bearing. I know it's a weak point in the engine that can lead to a very expensive failure, so I decided to replace the stock bearing with one of higher quality materials. I don't really care what anyone else does or how much they think about it, but I like to have a robust solution in my car.

I'm just arguing that tying statistic data or anything that looks like statistic data to this without a formal study is misleading and irresponsible.

okay so let me ask you this as hypothetical... :)

Let's say you just joined this this not often visited forum and over the next month 300 IMS failures from let's say 400 regular posters were reported, STILL statiscally insignificant both to the number of cars built and the number of forum members registered. And you're best friend unaware of these 300 failures, then came to you and said "I'm thinking of buying your Boxster" you wouldn't pause for a second? I mean rationally you have no reason to because those 300 failures still represent a sliver of a sliver. But yet it would certainly affect your thought process.

Yeah, of course. In fact, the few reported here gave me pause, the expense of a failure is extreme which is why I upgraded.

But I wouldn't go around telling people that the failure rate is 75% either. It would be irresponsible. I'm not saying you did this, but it was getting close.

Not worried about it anymore as I got the retrofit done recently, but I can definitely respect blue's stance on the matter. The way I see it, ~$1,500 sounds way better than ~$15,000, if you're lucky, and you'll be able to get in and out of the car without wondering if "this is gonna be the one" when you're 30 miles away from home on a joyride. Sure, there's still several other points of failure, as there is with anything mechanical, but at least the glaring one that is most likely to grenade your engine is taken care of.

I LOVE my 1998 986 with now...44K miles.

Was very excited to bond with the other Boxster owner at my company.

But, a couple of months later- I ran out to see his newer model (by a few years, albeit with some more miles) being towed away (with the big pool of synthetic being soaked up on the ground).

Like a bad crime scene, it's hard to get out of one's mind...

Clutch/Lt. Wt. Flywheel/Bearing Upgrade for about $2300 (when my clutch has more miles before needing replacement) or a Commuter Car to relieve the miles and some of the risk?

Again, I love the car...I appreciate it more every time I drive it or wash it.

I don't love the possibility of an engine failure that costs as much or more to fix than what I paid for it.

The IMS failure possibility is real to me. My car was not driven hard nor was the one I saw towed away.

So, my current plan is to get the IMS upgraded + an inexpensive commuter car + drive it hard when I want to.

Will be more than I bargained for, but the Boxster has turned out to be better than I bargained for too.

Hope it all turns out well.

Well, C Tree PO, more often than not it seems that driving the car hard is actually less risky than putting around at low rpms in high gears. It's not necessarily 100% fact, but those who have had experience with receiving/repairing cars with this failure have found that the cars were not driven hard or driven on track. Keep the RPMs over 3,000 (but below 4,000 until the engine warms up), and drive it however you like from there. Babying the car may bring about exactly what you're trying to avoid. Besides, the engine sounds way better past 4,000 RPMs. :D

Bump. In the road and for this thread...

Paranoia? Rough spot in engine-feel consistently at around 3500 RPM.

I keep it at around 3K-4K unless in the mountains (or having a little fun around town) but I feel a "rough spot" at around 3500 RPM <specifically>.

My IMS "Spidey-sense" keeps kicking in.

I did my budgeting today and since I really don't want to be forced to commute in the Boxster during the Winter (okay, it will be just a little bit of California rain) and stop-and-go traffic- I have decided to buy another old Acura to try and protect my '98 986 (now about 45K mi).

I plan on upgrading the IMS next Spring (and replacing the clutch unnecessarily + going to lightweight flywheel + possibly an RMS).

Just don't feel comfortable driving it hard OR easy...that's pretty tough.

I hoped to be able to do both!!

BTW, Overdrive...thanks for the reply and I find that that the engine sounds better when hitting the throttle fast/hard enough around 4K to hear that intake!! Also better when driving next to something so the sound is reflected :cheers:

You may find some folks on the forum recommending against using a lightweight flywheel. If you're getting vibration around 3500rpms it's pretty likely to be your motor mount, definitely fixable and not the most expensive thing in the world.

The way I see it, driving the car the way it was meant to be driven isn't going to end the car's life any sooner than trying to be nice to it in hopes that it will overcome a possible IMS failure. I'm just making sure I get my money's worth out of this great car.

It's kinda the "heart attack" of Boxsters.
Ya go to the doc every year and get blood tests, take fish oil (or Mobile 1), try to exercize the proper amount, attempt to eat right reading labels and reading related info, take lipitor, etc, etc, but you know down deep that it's somewhat a crap-shoot. So, you worry more than necessary, and maybe you'll be lucky and not become a statistic.
Best I can say after writing that is that you can always buy another engine or car, and you will still be on the top side of the grass!!!!! :cheers:

Egg-zactly. I was actually thinking the exact thing (though I wouldn't have written it as well) as I was opening this post. Hakuna-Matata.

ARrrrgh. Dreaded double-post.

Perspective
 

I live at an intersection out in the country. Just a couple of hours ago a 17 year old ran the red light and got T-boned. His 15 year-old girlfriend left the scene in a body bag. I drive my Boxster like the Doktor intended and don't have time to worry about whether or not some bearing is going to go to hell. I can always get another car.

Perspective, indeed. No point in living in fear, go enjoy what you spent your hard-earned money on.

At the same time schnellman's message also reminds us to be smart about how we enjoy our cars in a non-controlled (aka non-track, as in the street) environment. Some of us may not be as reckless as a 17-year-old (and I'm not saying this one was, who knows what happened for sure), but we all carry the same amount of risk whenever we venture out onto the road, so we need to enjoy our cars responsibly.

:cheers:

I replaced with L&N engineerings kit

I heard the "change in a coffee can" noise this summer, so I thought I had an IMS failure - had it replaced & the IMS was fine, but now I can sleep at night.

Still have no idea what the noise was, but haven't heard it since.

I have a 1998 Boxster that has covered only 26000 miles, at what mileage should I start getting concerned about the IMS?

You're really ripe right now and for the past 5 yrs or so.

yikes! It's not a mileage related fault then?

My car was not in the "higher probability of failure" group due to it's history: Daily driven with frequent oil changes and meticulous maintenance for the first 5 years, Calif. car.
I replaced the IMS while doing other clutch/trans work at 98k miles. The original bearing looked to be in very good condition.

If I had a 10 yr old garage queen with very low miles and long oil change intervals I would be more concerned.

The community think (although I don't believe there is any scientific proof) is that it is the opposite; low mileage garage queens tend to fail more than "drive it like you stole it" cars.

Again, I don't know if there's any definitive proof of this, and I'm currently considering an LNE retrofit along with my impending clutch job. Just need to teach the Mrs. how to drive a manual, and do the clutch in properly first :-).

So your saying I should really be concerned with my 2002 S with only 9000 miles? It gets frequent oil changes but I guess I better get the upgrade sooner than later. Interesting thread.