How Worried Are You About IMS? - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

blue2000s · 07-23-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Yes Sir. I was reading on another forum today and a poster said there is a "27% engine failure rate on Boxster engines". So look to your right, then to your left and one of you.....
mass hysteria.

Not that it isn't real, but people are sheep. It's a self defense mechanism.

The 27% person needs to be called out. Spreading crap like that doesn't do anyone any good. Where was that post?

DenverSteve · 07-23-2011, 08:07 PM

He was

Perfectlap · 07-25-2011, 06:49 PM

This forum has had at least four ims failures. given the small membership I think that's significant. As far as I can recall they were all members before the failure. One shop, well known, hinted at getting 150 calls a year. Just do it. The more people know this can be addressed for the price of of a flat screen tv the better it will be on resale values. Porsche should be doing these with every clutch job as an upgrade. It would drive more business their way as people would not put the clutch off so long

blue2000s · 07-25-2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

This forum has had at least four ims failures. given the small membership I think that's significant.

There are over 28,600 registered members of this board. 4 failures is less than 0.15% of that none of which is very scientific but it goes to show how incomplete statistics can be made to support any claim.

Perfectlap · 07-26-2011, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue2000s

There are over 28,600 registered members of this board. 4 failures is less than 0.15% of that none of which is very scientific but it goes to show how incomplete statistics can be made to support any claim.

that would infer that all 28,600 have posted even once. I doubt more than 50 of those 28K ever regularly post (once a month) before they sell the car and abandon the log in. I didn't intend it to be a statiscal point on cars vs failures. More anecdotal on regular posters v. failures. If four IMS failures randomly happened to forum members here then it is what it is -- freaky coincidence. But everything else I've heard from people who work on these cars doesn't make it sound so random.

blue2000s · 07-26-2011, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

that would infer that all 28,600 have posted even once. I doubt more than 50 of those 28K ever regularly post (once a month) before they sell the car and abandon the log in.

Like I said, you can use numbers to support any story. Now you're trying to slant it in other direction with the same data by rationalizing. Which is equally as useless as my example was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I didn't intend it to be a statiscal point on cars vs failures. More anecdotal on regular posters v. failures. .

That sounds statistical in nature to me.

blue2000s · 07-26-2011, 10:14 AM

Full disclosure - I've had my IMS replaced with the stainless/ceramic bearing. I know it's a weak point in the engine that can lead to a very expensive failure, so I decided to replace the stock bearing with one of higher quality materials. I don't really care what anyone else does or how much they think about it, but I like to have a robust solution in my car.

I'm just arguing that tying statistic data or anything that looks like statistic data to this without a formal study is misleading and irresponsible.

Perfectlap · 07-26-2011, 10:28 AM

okay so let me ask you this as hypothetical...

Let's say you just joined this this not often visited forum and over the next month 300 IMS failures from let's say 400 regular posters were reported, STILL statiscally insignificant both to the number of cars built and the number of forum members registered. And you're best friend unaware of these 300 failures, then came to you and said "I'm thinking of buying your Boxster" you wouldn't pause for a second? I mean rationally you have no reason to because those 300 failures still represent a sliver of a sliver. But yet it would certainly affect your thought process.

MileHighBoxster · 07-21-2012, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue2000s

There are over 28,600 registered members of this board. 4 failures is less than 0.15% of that none of which is very scientific but it goes to show how incomplete statistics can be made to support any claim.

And probably 90% of owners don't forum. That would be even a smaller percent.

Fnred98 · 08-10-2012, 08:37 PM

I have a 1998 driven at a spirited pace for 34,000 miles with the oil changed yearly. Not sure what to do, but strongly consider replacing the IMS. What comments has Porsche made about this issue? Any additional thoughts / suggestions from the forum ?

dennis · 08-11-2012, 03:03 AM

I think there is some truth to the frequency the car is driven, more thzn the miles put on it. I try to drive my car several times per week all year. It never sits for more thsn a week not driven. I dont think it matters that you put 20k on it in one yr if it sits for 1-3 months. I think the key is constant use and lubrication of the engine.

DenverSteve · 07-25-2011, 07:17 PM

Too many unknown factors. Have the failures been on: vehicles bought new or used by the effected owner?; have they had all their required (major and minor) maintenance?, were they modified, raced, abused? Also, only a very small percentage of owners (of any vehicle type) are forum members. I belong to a forum for my other vehicle too - a Jeep Wrangler. The Wrangler forum is replete with problem after problem. I've never had a single issue. The same when I had my Cayenne (never a single problem). I buy my vehicles, meticulously maintain them and drive them like I stole them (so to speak).

There seems to be a disproportionate number of "failures" on forums than in "the real world". Most of the catastrophic or major failures I have seen are from people who bought those vehicles used. Forums, frequently, are the breeding grounds for not only good information but misinformation and scare mongers. I'm not saying there's not a good reason to inspect the IMS when a clutch job is done, I just don't think it's a sky-is-falling situation.

I have also seen a disproportionate number of forum members - on several forums - who have way more problems with their vehicles than the average owner. I can't say why, I've simply observed it. It's just up to forum members (us) to evaluate the information and mentally weed out the quality information, trolls and mongers - and sometimes it's hard. All present company excluded.

Perfectlap · 07-26-2011, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

There seems to be a disproportionate number of "failures" on forums than in "the real world". Most of the catastrophic or major failures I have seen are from people who bought those vehicles used. Forums, frequently, are the breeding grounds for not only good information but misinformation and scare mongers. I'm not saying there's not a good reason to inspect the IMS when a clutch job is done, I just don't think it's a sky-is-falling situation.

Largely the fault of the manufacturer for not putting out the "true numbers".
Well obviously they would have to be in a position to even report said numbers by actually acknowledging it. No such humanitarianism and philanthropy coming out of Porsche. I guess they didn't want to go there for good reason. If a well-known shop is claiming four reported IMS failures a week then I'm really mystified why the manufacturer wouldn't make an effort to reach out to that shop and its affiliates. I'm more than sure that they already have these numbers for the out of warranty rollers that were brought into their dealerships but those must be minor since the car is a total wash at that point.
Since this the age of the internet you can't keep a lid on something forever. Sooner or later those reported numbers leak out and people start to see (possibly) that the number of catastrophic failures, although still "lottery ticket" minor, are well above industry average.

DenverSteve · 07-26-2011, 09:32 AM

Then the onus would be on the owners of cars who have experienced the same catastrophic failure to contact Porsche and file a class-action suit on behalf of all Porsche owners and force a recall/inspection. It has to be the group who has been damaged by such a loss. With all the lawyer's who are Porsche owners one would certainly take the case Pro Bono for his/her own assurance & protection if nothing else. If it has merrit. I would think a national Porsche Owner's Group would also step up of there was a need.

Perfectlap · 07-26-2011, 09:49 AM

Well suing a deep-pocketed manufacturer without some deep pockets of your own can be hazardous if they shoot back. The number of those types of cases that even get to a jury, at which point millions would have been spent to survive that long, are tiny and those that get past high-priced 'experts' witnesses testifying that the manufacturer didn't do anything wrong are miniscule. Most lawyers won't pony up that kind of risk.

Topless · 07-21-2012, 02:30 PM

My car was not in the "higher probability of failure" group due to it's history: Daily driven with frequent oil changes and meticulous maintenance for the first 5 years, Calif. car.
I replaced the IMS while doing other clutch/trans work at 98k miles. The original bearing looked to be in very good condition.

If I had a 10 yr old garage queen with very low miles and long oil change intervals I would be more concerned.