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Old 01-21-2015, 06:33 AM   #1
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My progress at Roebling Road Raceway from January 2014 to January 2015

I just got back from my 4th DE at Roebling Road Raceway with the Florida Crown Region PCA. I don't have any video of my first time which was September 2013, but I have a few sessions from January 2014, September 2014, and September 2015.

Edit: I also forgot to add, I have a 2000 S with Traction control. I have been leaving it on and it has never activated up until this past sunday in the last session, which was the session where I ran the backside of the track in 3rd. Sometimes coming out of turn 7 as I was tracking out, I would very slightly feel the power dropping out, and a quick glance showed the traction control light on. In the previous session I was sliding around like crazy and it never activated during that, but in that final session it lit up a few times. Thoughts: if I am at the edge of the traction circle finishing a corner, wouldn't that be the worst place for power to be interrupted to the back wheels? Or was I too hot coming out of that corner and the traction control "saved" me?


This video is a composite of my best time January 2014, September 2014, and my best Saturday Lap and Best Sunday Lap from January 2015. Watch these in HD, the "regular" video is terrible.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=773991329337100&l=4678585286081156803

This video is a composite of my best lap from Saturday and Best from Sunday.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=774346109301622&l=5677160104506060540

My son came too with his 99 Miata and he had a great session and was promoted into the Blue instructed group on Sunday. He had the same instructor as last time, JC, who was fantastic and spent tons of time with him. Here is his best lap combined with one of my laps of approximately the same duration to compare.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=774418569294376&l=329200210301143424

Here are my lap times for the final session on Sunday, which was my best and most consistent session all weekend. Except for a few laps where I was stuck behind traffic I ran low 1:33 and high 1:32. I kept the same pressures as my final session on Saturday which were good, but I slid around so much the previous session I think they got overheated and so I evened them out, I believe I used 35 rear (255/40/17) 33 front (225/45/17) Hankook RS-3 "warm", and I didn't get a chance to check them after the session because we were in a hurry to get packed and get out before the combined final session of the day.



From watching my videos I see that I am still not very consistent with corner entry speeds which hurts me all the way around the back side of RRR which is all curves. My son and his instructor like to brake a little early going into 1 so they can get the car settled and the entry speed set. I was working on braking later and my speeds were all over the place.

I also rode a session as a passenger with the chief driving instructor in his wife's 2000 Boxster, all stock except for coilovers and Nitto NT1, that was an experience! It was crazy fast!

Me and my son can't wait to go back. Maybe we will win the lottery

Fast lap/session from Sunday 1/18/2015
http://trackattackapp.com?raceid=9425f254-6f6a-4292-92e7-4de296104a9d&lapid=b6c6c229-5698-463e-a634-47f388cfb59f

Fast lap/session from Saturday 1/17/2015
http://trackattackapp.com?raceid=28b55a3d-0273-4cdb-a0b4-a6d9cc3f3a01&lapid=2f15a4b5-a20e-4b67-872b-9b882d04af32

Fast lap/session from 9/7/2014
http://trackattackapp.com?raceid=3339b750-225f-44e1-aa16-f9be5497667a&lapid=d44f8f5e-5679-45b9-9dc7-4f686b0ced70

Fast lap/session from 1/18/2014
http://trackattackapp.com?raceid=0d1a025f-9f6f-4e5f-acc2-b17a7245d019&lapid=69630deb-6891-43e7-a340-321877161422


Last edited by steved0x; 01-21-2015 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 01-22-2015, 05:28 AM   #2
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I thought this was interesting, my gas mileage on the way to the track, during the 2 track days, and on the way home

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Old 01-24-2015, 06:25 AM   #3
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Yeah, I really like RRR. It is kind of a strange track though in that many different lines seem to work on the back section. My preference is to take several of those turns as multiple apex turns with an early apex late braking across the the turn somewhat, followed by a late apex coming out accelerating to the next turn.

Looking back at times from my last run there at a Florida Region PCA event last April, my fastest time was a 1:29.1 on Dunlop ZII's. I didn't get a chance to carry any R-comps there, as it was forecasted (and did) rain hard the second day, and I only have room on the tire trailer for one set of tires, so I had to choose full wets to carry there.

Looking back at my videos from last year, I had a bad time with traffic on almost every lap, so you might look back and find that your inconsistent lap times could just be traffic effects.
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Old 01-24-2015, 07:33 AM   #4
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Looks like you and your son had a blast out there!

In regards to your question about the TC coming on at turn exit; most (all?) car mfg's believe that understeer is safer than oversteer so reducing the power to the rear wheels is intended to keep the rear wheels from losing traction and the back end sliding. In your case, the TC is simply helping to keep the rear end behind the front end (all it takes is a slight nudge of the rear brake). If the driver really overcooks the corner, TC keeps the car manageable while the front end understeers off the track into the weeds.

The difference here is that the TC has the ability to only apply the rear brake to keep the rear end from sliding. If you as a driver were to tap the brakes in the same situation, then the weight would shift forward and the rear end would slide even more.

With that being said, your intuition is correct - if the rear end starts to slide an experienced driver would want to keep the weight on the rear (or increase it) by keeping the throttle pinned and either give it a little counter-steer or unwinding the steering a bit to open up the corner.

Eventually you'll find that you are engaging the TC on a near-continual basis and that it is actually slowing you down.

Its great that you were able to ride along with an instructor, that is always worthwhile and will help set your calibration point for what the car can really do.
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAP1DOUG View Post
My preference is to take several of those turns as multiple apex turns with an early apex late braking across the the turn somewhat, followed by a late apex coming out accelerating to the next turn.
When I rode with the chief driving instructor he took several of the corners like that. Turn 1 was an early apex very high speed turn followed by a hard brake and downshift right before the turn in point for turn 2. We did around the same thing at turn 5/6.



I am driving a line where I have a hard brake before turn 1, and then a hard brake before turn 4, and the rest of the time I don't use any brakes. I am having to feather back to scrub off speed a decent amount before turn 6 and especially turn 7, and I think I am going to integrate a braking zone before them next time. My issue right now with braking zones is that I tend to overbrake, especially if there is a downshift involved. Since these two braking zones do not have a downshift, and I feel like I have a good feel for the proper entry speed I think I will be ok.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LAP1DOUG View Post
Looking back at my videos from last year, I had a bad time with traffic on almost every lap, so you might look back and find that your inconsistent lap times could just be traffic effects.
There was a lot of traffic, and lots of it doesn't want to let a lowly Boxster (or Miata) pass. Here is one example. I was also stuck behind an older yellow 911 for 3 or 4 laps which were probably 8/9 seconds off my pace. I don't have a video now but that one was probably the most aggravating

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=775214669214766&l=4880140543410313436

Most traffic was very courteous, like this time:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=775250852544481&l=610174740535673173

I try to be very courteous, if someone shows up behind me, I let them around at the first possible opportunity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAP1DOUG View Post
Looking back at times from my last run there at a Florida Region PCA event last April, my fastest time was a 1:29.1 on Dunlop ZII's. I didn't get a chance to carry any R-comps there, as it was forecasted (and did) rain hard the second day, and I only have room on the tire trailer for one set of tires, so I had to choose full wets to carry there.
My son is running the Dunlop ZII and I am running the Hankook RS-3. He really seems to like them and he is breathing down my neck. I didn't get to go last April (that one falls on the weekend of my lady's birthday) but I remember the rain because another friend was there, I think he got promoted to White solo, he has a red 996, car #18, named Ed.

1:29.1... very nice! I think I am a ways from that, but every time I go I am improving, both in single best lap and strings of consistent laps. It is a lot of fun!
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone View Post
Looks like you and your son had a blast out there!

In regards to your question about the TC coming on at turn exit; most (all?) car mfg's believe that understeer is safer than oversteer so reducing the power to the rear wheels is intended to keep the rear wheels from losing traction and the back end sliding. In your case, the TC is simply helping to keep the rear end behind the front end (all it takes is a slight nudge of the rear brake). If the driver really overcooks the corner, TC keeps the car manageable while the front end understeers off the track into the weeds.

The difference here is that the TC has the ability to only apply the rear brake to keep the rear end from sliding. If you as a driver were to tap the brakes in the same situation, then the weight would shift forward and the rear end would slide even more.

With that being said, your intuition is correct - if the rear end starts to slide an experienced driver would want to keep the weight on the rear (or increase it) by keeping the throttle pinned and either give it a little counter-steer or unwinding the steering a bit to open up the corner.

Eventually you'll find that you are engaging the TC on a near-continual basis and that it is actually slowing you down.

Its great that you were able to ride along with an instructor, that is always worthwhile and will help set your calibration point for what the car can really do.
For autocross I have to turn the TC off, or else it kicks on 3 or 4 times during every 60-70 second run. When it kicks in then it almost feels like the car has run out of gas.

On the track, I am much more conservative... (translate - still scared that the car is going to magically fly off the track for no reason) but I am getting better. This session, in addition to the TC going off a few times, I also very gently slid the back end around through turn 4 and turn 6. It wasn't on purpose, but it did not freak me out and I gently recovered (I can't even tell you what I did, it may have just corrected itself once I straightened out at the end of the turn) but I definitely did not lift.

We had one older 911 Targa go into the wall after turn 9, I believe he may have taken an early apex through 8/9, got onto the track out gators and then lifted which took the back end out and then put him right into the wall. Very sad.
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:40 AM   #7
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Also, thank you both for your comments and insights, it is greatly appreciated!

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