why a hard top in the winter?
 

Since I'm new to the whole convertible thing I was wondering why I see so many comments about having a hard top in the winter. Why? Is it because of the snow loads? Is it because of the insulation? Is it to keep the road salt off of the canvas? I don't have a hard top and I don't see why someone would buy one for the winter.

I live in a Chicago suburb and as most of you know we got a good amount of snow this year, but I've never had a problem with too much snow on my top. It can't be because of the cold outside because I've driven in -4 degree weather and the car feels fine on the inside when the heat is on. As for the road salt, well I don't drive it when there's salt out there, so I don't know about this.

So why is it deemed necessary to have a hard top for the winter?

(BTW, djomlas's picture thread got me thinking about this. He made a comment about there being snow on the ground so he'll keep his hard top on.)

well its well worth the money. Siginificantly quieter, saves the expensive soft top from aditional wear, improves the ride and performance with more rigidity
and you can sell the top for equal to what you paid for it most of the time. Its like driving a completely different car in my opinion.
Its a win win.

But you didn't mention anything specific for the winter.

And if a Boxster owner wants to save on wear and tear on the canvas and have a better ride, why not buy a Cayman?

I don't think the hardtop being used has much to do with 'load' from the elements... the soft top is pretty sturdy, and can probably take some good weight.

I'd think it's more for insulation, improved rear visibility due to the larger window (this could be good since you'll more than likely have the top up anyway during the long winter months of inclement weather), and it also saves the top from wear from the elements.

The functional reasons are probably not all that great, but I'm sure it's a nice thing to have. I might try to find a hard top sometime, since my car is my daily driver.... although it's kinda harder to justify down here, as we do get some nice weather over the winter months.

The larger rear window I guess I can understand, but is that so imporatant to require a hard top in the winter?

I'm wanting djomlas to see this so he can chime in on why it is important to have his hard top on during the winter. ;)

it really is just not that important.....this is my third convertible and I have never had a hardtop for any of them...my brother doesn't have one on his roadster, I think they are pretty pointless.....

as to improved ride performance and rigidity.....I don't know if that's a benefit in the winter....I think you said it best, the cabin warms up just fine....

I wonder the same thing when people say get snow tires and a hardtop when someone says they are thinking about driving it in the winter, snow tires yes....hardtop, save the money....

EXACTLY!!!! The snow tires I can see, but why is a hardtop so necessary?

I store mine in the winter, but I always just assumed that extreme cold could take a toll on the plastic window, even if you aren't putting it up and down. I could be wrong though?

The only problem I've had with my plastic windown was when my dumb-ass put it down when it was about 30 degrees in my garage. That caused a small tear on the edge (there's a thread about it). Other than that my window held up great in the winter.

Hmmm.... still puzzled over this.


BTW, 986 Girl, I would store my Box in the winter too if I lived in Rochester. You have had massive amounts of snow this year. Every morning I send alerts to passengers flying out of Rochester Airport due to deicing I think to myself, "glad I don't live there." ;)

This is my first real winter ever... for some god awful reason I moved here from Southern California... but I plan to move back there at the end of this summer, if all goes as planned, then I don't have to worry about this anymore!

My hardtop is still hanging on the wall. I didn't put it on this winter.

However, if it's cold and there's no possibility that you're going to be putting the top down anytime soon, why not install the hardtop? It's quieter, warmer and offers better visibility. Your stereo sounds better and there's no possibility that you'll crack your rear window by putting the top down at 30 degrees. ;)

I think the hardtop is more for looks than anything else. The softtop seems to still keep the interior warm enough for me. As for the coment about the rear plastic window cracking in the winter, I would have to agree. It does tend to get harder when it's cold and more elastic and soft when it heats up in the summer making it more flexable and less likely to crimp in on itself when you lower the top. I would also preffer a hard top if I was racing and my car flipped over. I don't trust any kind of role bar to save my head from being crushed. I think it's also a good deterant for thieves. I plastic window is allot easier to cut and get into from the rear than a glass hard top would be. So there are pros and cons for having one as an option. I know if my car wasn't always in a garage I would want a hard top on it, while outside all day. To many of my past cars have been broken into. :cheers:

well atleast when you decide to move back, you have something look forward too like the light skin and freckles fading away into a yellowish bronzeish tan.

this is my second roadster, I skipped hardtops in the begining since I only drive on the weekends. Once I got one I kicked myself for not doing it sooner. Drive a car with the hardtop and you will see right away that the car is better in all driving aspects with a proper roof on it.
Its not so much the weather but the fact that since you won't really be lowering the top for months and months, there is no point in compromising the structure of the car. No matter how well designed a roadster is, the abscence of a roof comes at a cost. Cowl shake and turbulence over rough roads, less rigidity in cornering, more noise, aerodynamics etc..
For a mere $1500 your car essentially becomes a true sports coupe in a five minutes, ideal when top down driving isn't in the cards for a big chunk of the year.

The flurry of retractable hard tops like in the VW EOS, Miata and BMW 3 series tries to bring together the best of both worlds but the extra weight seems to affect most of them. Its really not perfected in any roadster yet.

Nothing to do with winter
 

When I order my new box I will get a hard top ... not for the winter which we do get here in Ont but purely from an aesthetic POV.

Before the Cayman was released, the early spy photos of the hardtop box was that of a notchback, not a hatchback as the Cayman turned out to be.

Hardtop is the only way to turn my box to notchback Cayman.

Bottom line - you either like the looks of it or you don't.

Some track events won't allow a car without a hardtop to participate. That is one of the reasons I got mine. I also like the looks of the hardtop. For those of us that have a pre-2003, having a glass back window with defroster is a plus. We get lots of rain during the winter time and I have used my rear defroster on a number of occasions. I just pulled mine off the other day when it was nice out. Now it's raining and I have the soft top up. The hardtop does not squeek like the soft top does. Since we will have rain for the next week or so, the hardtop is going back on. It's lightweight and only takes a minute to put on.

-David

The hardtop isn't a necessity, but if your car is a daily driver like mine, the hardtop is certainly nice in the winter. The main reason, a rear defroster.

The hardtop is nice for the previously mentioned sound deadening and keeping the salt stains off of the fabric but I think the rear defrost is the real reason for me. With 3.6L and over 325 hp you like to see who you just passed, even in the winter :)

Todd

Just wondering, how much do they weigh anyway? Can one person do it without any help if he is carefull? :cheers:

Pardon my ignorance, but I have never seen a Box with a HT in person. I'm assuming the cloth top is lowered so the HT can be put in place. For us poor souls who have plastic rear windows, doesn't the cold cause problems with a folded window? At the least I would think it puts a nasty curve / crease in the window and at worse cracks it? I'm sure this isn't an issue with those of you who live in warm weather all year long or only take your cars out in nice weather. But for those of us who live in the cold and drive our Boxsters everyday, sitting in the cold while we are making our livings can't be good for the rear window.

What say ye?

They weigh about 50 lbs. Taking them off by yourself it not horrible, but can be done. I have done it several times. Getting it back on is a little easier with 2 people as you are laying it down, instead of pulling it off. You just have to be a little more careful when putting it back on not to drop it or scratch your car. I just ask my wife for a minute of her time and it's back on in no time. I've considered the hoists that they sell, but have not yet needed it.

-David

They weigh around 80+ lbs.

When I bought my '01 (used), the salesman had the hardtop brought out at the last minute because the used car manager at the dealership had been storing it in his office and was glad to be rid of it. I had cut the deal thinking that it didn't come with a hardtop.

I drove around for the first couple of months with the hardtop on and actually enjoyed driving my boxster more with it on, than without it. But then came spring time and I took it off and for some reason have never put it back on. It doesn't get that cold here in Dallas, so I've never got around to putting it back on, 'cause if I do, I may leave it on for a while.

I like the looks of it, but it is a bit of a hassle taking it on and off without some assistance. I can pick it up and hang it on the wall by myself, but it's a precarious endeavor to say the least.

The hard top isn't a necessity, but it has its practical benefits as others have already noted.

If you can find a used one at a good price it will be like having two different cars - a roadster in the summer and a coupe in the winter - for less that $1000. If you find you aren't using it, the resale market for hard tops is pretty strong.

Personally, I like the look with the hard top on.

Perfectlap and DavidJ,

I didn't know you guys had hardtops. Any pics?

As a relatively new hardtop owner, I love it! It really does change the character of the car, and can be reversed very quickly which is great.

ddb

Here you go.

http://www.emeraldcitycustoms.com/im...6/PC306918.jpg

-David

Two reasons for me:

You can't scrape ice off of a plastic window. The defogger in the hardtop window works great.

I have no issue driving my car through a touchless car wash in the middle of the winter when I have the hardtop installed.

Here is a pic of the wall storage unit that came with mine. It makes summer storage much easier and does not take up garage space. I loved having the hardtop on during the winter as it makes me feel like a new car here in the spring.


http://i15.tinypic.com/2we98is.jpg
http://i17.tinypic.com/30kpys6.jpg

as all said, its nice to have a BIG rear heated window, its MUCH quiter inside the cabin, when driving in winter and parking the car, it doesnt get cold inside as fast as it would if you had the ragtop on, and put simply, car looks sexy as hell w a hardtop, bo be honest the cloth one looks ugly, but does what it should.
so i plan on either having a hardtop on, or no top at all...well at least most of the time couse i know ther will be those tandom rains, color, or whatever.. ;)

I wouldn't buy the boxster without the hard top mostly just because I like the look of them either top down, or with the hard top on. Don't like the look of the soft top up but that's just me. I also like the extra sound reduction with the hard top, and if I lived in snow country and actually drove the boxster, I would want to be able to scrape windows and not have to worry about the plastic or caring for the top fabric during the cold months.

Another reason to have a hard top is that people like cutting soft tops to take a peek inside your ride. I've had two tops cut open, one on a miata, one on a wrangler, but nothing stolen (because I don't leave anything of value in the car). What was even lamer was that the damn jeep wasn't even locked at the time, the 'tard just cut it open anyway.

I'm assuming you don't mean buy a Cayman for winter driving and a Boxster for summer driving but a Cayman instead of a Boxster.

I didn't buy a Cayman because I wanted a convertible so buying a Cayman instead of a Boxster wasn't an option to save wear and tear on the rag top. The hard top is however an option on the Boxster to save substantial wear and tear on the rag top from snow, salt and grit in the winter. Compare any ragtop driven throughout the winter with one that had a hard top and you will notice a substantial difference in wear. You also get a lot more crud in all of the spaces between the rag top and the body that you don't get with the hard top on in the winter.

Outside of the the Cayman forums there are a lot of people who don't think the Cayman provides a "better" ride than the Boxster for the very reason that the Cayman is more rigid. Throw in the trunk thump and change in air pressure created when the Cayman goes over bumps and the Cayman can be unsettling for some. I never really noticed that much difference between the handling and feel of the Cayman and Boxster but have been disparaged as a complete idiot with no sense of how a car handles for expressing that opinion. Maybe there is a difference though because many of those who claim to want the additional rigidity of the Cayman also opt for PASM to overcome the harshness of the ride. Particularly if they add 19" rims.

In short, I think you'll find an awful lot of people who think the Boxster provides a better ride because it is less rigid than the Cayman. Throw in the added benefits of a roadster in the summer and a hardtop in winter thereby extending the life of the ragtop and many people conclude that the Cayman offers less, not more.

1JB, that is what I was looking for. Now I completely understand why someone would want a hardtop for the winter. Very good explanation.

And yes, I meant a Cayman instead of a Boxster all together. My first thought is if people like hardtops so much, why did they buy a convertible? Your post explains it well.

I didn't know soft tops took so much abuse during the winter. That would be the primary reason for me to get a hard top for the next winter. My Box isn't my daily driver, but I do like to take it out as often as I can.

Thanks. Now I will start saving my pennies. I don't care for the look of the OEM hard top and I'd like to get the one from ZEINTEC. Too bad it costs so damn much. lol

Chills - I like the Zeintec top as well but don't know if they have any fit issues. I'd lean toward the Porsche top. When you see it in person it looks pretty retro but I think you either like it or really hate it.

From the pictures I've seen I'm not really into the Porsche top, but I haven't seen one in person so my mind isn't made up yet. I might end up liking the look and buying an OEM one... it sure would save me a bunch of cash.

Has anyone used that hardtop hoist you can find on eBay? It looks like a good way to remove the top and keep it out of the way.

For people who live in climates where it gets very cold in the winter and you will be driving for months without ever a thought of putting the top down, then I can see a hardtop being a good idea. For me in British Columbia, however, the winter never really gets that bad and there are many times between November and April when it's reasonably warm (50-60°F) and sunny. I just couldn't bear the thought of having a hard top on my car on one of those days and not be able to drop the top. Also, since Halle sleeps in a nice garage every night and I don't take her out when there is actually any snow on the ground (or in the air), I don't think her convertible top gets any more wear than in the summer time.

As for aesthetics, each to his own. I think the convertible top looks pretty good especially compared to other drop tops.

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but I bought a boxster that had a hard top on it long-term. It was a Utah car and probably had a hard top on it at least 4-5 months a year for three or four years straight.

What happend to my soft top was that the cables that run along the sides of the top by the windows stretched and all the elastic inside that pulls the top and window back as it retracts stretched as well.

Because of this, I have to stop raising the top and insure the sides of the top are in the plastic frame (not riding partially outside it), and I have to do a double chop, one for the window and one for the fold above the window.

It's a real pain in the butt. Anyone using a top long-term on their boxster will probably have similar problems and from what I have found, the best solution is to have the top replaced... even if the window is in pristine condition like mine is!

Have any 987 owners had issues with the hardtop as Randall has described? Obviously, we don't chop since it is a glass window, so... were there general upgrades in the pieces/parts of the 987 ragtop that make it more conduce to being in the down position with a hardtop on top? Or would people say there is no difference?

I have an EZ-Top Hoist. It is a little pricey, but I paid only $610 for my hard top, so I felt like I could splurge a little on the hoist. It makes installation and removal a one-person job. It also keeps the hard top away from careless spouses and children.

I have a one car garage that my wife has claimed. If I had a spacious garage and someone to help me install and remove the top, I would have bought a wall rack and saved a few dollars.

KEVIN1990, where did you find such a good deal on the hardtop? I am looking for the exact same one as yours actually :) so I would love a few tips!!!

I bought it on eBay. The seller lived in South Carolina (about 300 miles away) and wouldn't ship it. The listing ended on July third (not exactly prime hard top weather) and the seller wanted it picked up by July 10th because he was moving.

I think I was lucky that I was looking at the right time and no one else could meet the tight pick up schedule. Also, I doubt too may people living in South Carolina and parts south were in the market.

I also bought hard tops for the two Miatas I owned. I checked eBay, Craigslist and the local paper. If I saw someone selling a car with a hard top, I would make an offer on the hard top alone. I had a few rejections, but eventually found willing sellers.

Before I had found the eBay top, I had located 4 other Arctic Silver hard tops that were possible deals. One was in California, but my college room mate lived nearby and was willing to crate it and ship it. Another was in DC (about 100 miles away from me), but it was damaged. The third was in Philadelphia (my brother was going to hold that one for me until I could get it.) The final one was in Virginia Beach, but it had started life red and had been repainted.


So, the tops are out there. Good luck finding one.

if 987's have glass window soft tops.. can these be installed on 986's?

The shape of the windows is different on a 987, so that is at least one point where it won't fit.

Search for threads on GAHH tops and Robbins. They make aftermarket glass window tops for the 986, and there have been quite a few healthy discussions about aftermarket tops.

Starting in 2003, the 986 also had a glass rear window. You could probably retrofit that top, but I believe you would also need the frame and some other components. It might be economically feasible if you could get what you need from a wrecked car.