anyone else think their car needs lowered?
 

I was looking at my car a lot today and it just looks like it could use 1/2" - 1" of lowering. I think it would really add to the overall appearance.

There is a big gap now between the tires and the fenders.

Even when sitting in the car it doesn't feel nearly as low as other cars in its class.


Has anyone noticed this or read about lowering their 987s?


I can't comment on 986s because I haven't seen enough of them to tell if they need lowered.


Post thoughts

I saw a lowered 987 after a recent Mavs game I was at. It was astonishing! I cannot believe how cool it looked. Until then, I was never really a fan of lowering, but it made me want to lower my car. It was so smooth and subtle. I really wish I had a picture of that.

Post a clear side view shot of your car and I'll lower it for you in Photoshop so you can see what it'd look like.

I have a 97, I want mine done soon.

id like to do mine, but since its daily and gets driven in winter...it already scrapes everywhere

in general, most cars look better lowered

Damn son, you gotta get yo'self dems air ride suspension. You can be driving with one wheel in the air and bounce around and thatd be da illest stuff ever. You could let it be high for curbs N stuff, and drag it fo da ladies.

air rie suspension is great actually

Thanks. I'll post a side pic tomorrow when I get to school w/ my camera.



I DO NOT want to compromise performance. That wouldn't be worth it to me :o


Does lowering compromise performance or does it depend? What does it depend on?

I think it always improves it... unless you live in an area of poor road construction quality, then it might be a nightmare driving around town.

On smooth pavement you will noticed enhanced performance. On ****************ty, potholed riddled NYC roads, you will notice enhanced Kidney pains ;)

The lower the car, the less suspension travel (typically) to absorb impacts. Also, since the travel is often shorter, the compromise is to run stiffer springs to prevent bottoming out. Thus, a stiffer ride.

On the plus side you will notice even sharper handling and roadholding due to a lowering of the vehicles center of gravity.

Everything has a trade off. What do you want to live with? :)

I can live with bumpiness in the name of tighter handling!!!


Now this is an area I've done ZERO research on and never touched. I will get to reading some about it before I choose a product.


Are there lowering kits that help you lower the oem suspension or do you have to replace parts?

I bet my car will look 5x better. I'll get pics asap guys!


Thanks!!!

EDIT: Hopefully handle better too

New springs aren't expensive, but the labor is gonna kill you. I was quoted $800 if I supplied the springs at $350... Ouch!

You will need to replace parts.

I am not too familiar with PASM, but if your car has PASM, it may impact the type of replacements you can choose from.

Ideally, remember that Springs AND shocks work as a system. While you can certainly go with just "lowering" springs, I would encourage you to do it "right" and get matched shocks. Why tear the car apart twice, afterall.

Eibach and H&R are popular brands/products.

Bilstein makes a well regarded PSS9 kit that replaces shocks and springs with stiffer, lower and adjustable components. JIC and Cross are some other brands to look into.

________________________________-

Do you have 18" wheels on yours? We'll need to see a picture first.

Yup I have 18" 'S' wheels.


What's a ballpark figure for the shocks and springs? I can install it myself (w/ my friend)


This is something I really want to do.


Only thing I'm thinking about is speed bumps...but I don't think 1/2" will change that much.

Springs: $250-300-ish
Shocks: ?

My quote to lower was $660 + parts + alignment (RUF Auto Centre). That's another thing, you'll require an alignment when you're done. From my understanding, the rear springs are difficult to do yourself. There's a lot of disassembing to do back there.

I read about lowering Boxsters somewhere that said, when looking for a place to lower it, look for a place that has experience with your specific car. Even places that tune suspension (race shops) may not know the tricks involved for, say, a Boxster specifically.

I don't doubt the ability of you and your friend, It's just my understanding that it's a process more elaborate than a simple spring swap. I'd hate to see anything bad happen to such a nice looking 987.

The fronts are pretty straight forward. The rears, in the pics I've only "scanned" in the Bentley manual, indicate that entire rear hubs and axles and other components need to be disassembled before you can get the shock/springs out of the car. Labor is the killer. I'd imagine a shop would charge 8hrs of labor to do the whole job. Then you will need an alignment (figure $150-250).

Springs - $250-400?
Shocks - Lots$$ (Shocks could be, just a guess, $100-200 each)
Alignment - $150-250
Time spent - figure a whole day or weekend if trying it yourself for the first time (or say 8hr shop time X about $80-100/hr)

Please don't take these numbers as gospel. Just a regurgitation of what I've read elsewhere, plus the personal experience of redoing the entire suspension on my 911 a few years ago.

Hi,

I agree with your estimates. One might be able to lower them slightly by prudent shopping or having say a lift, but in general, your's are good numbers...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

if you are going to do a suspension mod...do a suspension mod.

if you have the means go with a full kit, new shocks and springs. On an expensive car like this I wouldn't consider anything other than coilovers which allow you to adjust the ride height. If you pass up on the coilover kit you are stuck at the ride height which you may not like at all.

I had a very experienced mechanic I once used refuse to install a set of eibach springs on a previous sports car on principle. He said there is no point in having to do all this labor, re-align the car and then face the possibility that the ride may be all wrong. You need to do some proper driving in a similar car with the exact set up you are considering before you pull the trigger.

Also, lowering a car that is often driven on public roads, particular one on 18" wheels and higher, is going to take a toll on your car. All the joints and connections through out the car will slowly start to loosen. The car will start to rattle and before you know it things are starting to break. If your car is a Sunday driver with few miles clocked in a year its probably safe. But if you drive that thing allot know what you are doing. Lowering a car is not a cosmetic adjustment, its a performance mod. Needs to be tested on the road before you make a change that you will be stuck with or have to pay allot of labor to undo.

Not lowering a car is like not putting braces on your kids teeth when they have big gaps. :)

If you're going to do it, do it right. Go with coilovers. Yes just adding springs will give you the better look and a slight increase in performance, but adding coilovers will be a night and day difference in ride quality and handling.

I spend just under $4k out the door for Cross coilovers, installation, alignment, corner balance, and tax. Well worth it in my opinion.

-David

That sounds a bit high. How much did you pay for the CC's?
You can get a set of Bilstein PSS9's installed for under $3K with alignment--
and if you're lucky they'll let you sit in it during the alignment.

I'm definitely going this route when it comes time to swap out the shocks and springs.

I think the suspension was like $2700-2800. Then the labor, alignment, and corner balance was another $700-800. Then tax was another $300-320 or so.

I could have gone with the PSS9s, but I wanted something a little higher end. I autocross the car and was looking for that extra edge over all the cars with PSS9s.

Not overpriced in my book. Yes I could have gotten the suspension for cheaper online, but cheaper is not always better. I purchased them and had them installed from one of the few distributors in the US. The customer service was top notch, and that itself is worth more $$$ in my book.

-David

I'm surprised that the way you're addressing what you describe as the "big gap between the tires and fenders" is by lowering the car rather than getting 19 inch tire/rims, which I think is what Jeff Squire was getting at. My previous base 987 had the 17" OEM rims and that gap you're alluding to was horrendous (not to mention that the 17" rim design is pretty uninspiring). I would agree that while not as bad, the gap is still present with the OEM 18" rims you have. The 19" (Carrera S) wheels on my current car eliminate that gap and make the car appear lower (although the rim design remains uninspiring).

The 987 wheel wells are designed to look flush, and therefore more appealing, with the 19" upgraded tires that Porsche sells for that model, just as the 986 with 16"s looks like poo when compare to the upgraded 18" wheels.

PASM, which I have, lowers the car by 10mm (just shy of half an inch) and anyone who tells you that they can spot a car with PASM from the outside is pretty much FOS (a non-Porsche acronym), so I don't think lowering your car by that amount will achieve the effect you're looking for.

As far as how the car feels on the inside, compared to its competitors, Im curious what your reference point is, as both the SLK and Z4 "feel" like you're riding higher, than in the 987.

Getting the 19" rims will not increase the diameter of wheel (the rim + tire combo), as 17", 18" and 19" rim + tire combos produce wheels of about the same overall diameter. Actually, the diameter of the 18" wheels (rim + tire) is slightly larger than the diameter of the 19" wheels.

The only way to fill out the gap without lowering is by using a larger diameter wheel. This means getting larger profile (vertically fatter) tires than recomended for each particular rim size. This will actually raise the car a bit but will fill the wheel well better. This will also affect the suspension, and the speedo and odometer measurements as they have not been calibrated for these larger diameter wheels.

Z.

Thanks for all the ideas.


I went onto bilstein's website and there are some adjustable suspensions w/ shocks & springs for the boxster (not sure if it has coilovers) or not, but there was also no price on the site.



The idea of 19" wheels and fatter tires seems logical, but I worry about adding too much unsprung weight. Lightweight 19" wheels will be VERY expensive!


Can I buy and use coilovers independently or do I need to replace multiple suspension parts?


Adjustable ride height does make sense. I wish I had PASM but I don't :-(

Bilstein PSS9 is a complete adjustable height solution. I have heard many good reviews about it and it is widely used by Porsche enthusiasts. It costs about $2k + installation, more or less.

Hi,

Interesting debate and no one answer will fit all owners. As I see it, there are really only 3 reasons to lower the car, each has it's own merits and drawbacks:

• A. To make a better Track car by lowering the CG.
  
  B. For the aesthetics, to remove any wheel well gap.
  
  C. It's the one area where you haven't modded the car.

For A., lowering the car also lowers the CG, decreases body roll and weight shift, which reduces the inside wheel's potential for lift. But, suspension travel is also reduced altering the ride quality. Notice I didn't say negatively altering ride quality because this is somewhat subjective. What some may deem too harsh or jarring, others appreciate as more feedback or tauter feel.

B. while reducing the wheel well gap, will also alter ride quality in addition to reducing ground clearance, which on a primarily street driven car could have some inherent negatives (which one may well be willing to assume) such as grounding out or not clearing obstacles. Be sure to re-aim your headlights if you do.

C. for some people is an obsession. They are never done. So, after Wheel, Tire, Intake, Exhaust, Interior, Sound System and the like are completed, this may be the only remaining area to be modded. Perfectly OK, it's their car, their money; Porsche even recognizes owners desire to customize their car(s) and encourages it.

There have been a few reports of people lowering the car and regretting the results, while many others praise this mod. The smartest thing is to objectively evaluate what you want from the car and how you use it. This may mean that lowering doesn't make sense for you, or maybe it does. If it does, people will often use any, or some combination, of all 3 reasons to justify it.

For me, it doesn't make sense to do it (already have 18" Turbos and am satisfied with it's appearance, don't Track this car), but it did make sense for one of my other cars (for some of each reason - A., B., & C.).

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Based on comments from another forumite and the posted measurements of lowered vs stock cars, I am about positive my S was lowered by the original owner. Is there an easy way to visually verify what was done, i.e. any sort of identifying marks on springs, etc? Is this something that the car would have to be on a lift to look at? I guess the obvious answer would be to try to track down the original owner and ask him...

Okay, that was easy. Googled the original owner and called him. Sho nuff, Eibach springs. Dang, there's like NOTHING left to do to my car except the turbo or supercharger....

Just a question:

Can I lower my car w/ just lowering springs? Do I NEED the entire setup?

If so, I would like to do this. They aren't that expensive!

Well... You could...
You could also take a blow torch to the springs to collapse them, thatd be "cheaper" if thats what your looking for. Oh ya, they wouldnt work any more and itd be like driving a cinder block.

Well, is it realistic to just use the springs? I guess that's a better question.

Ya, people do it all the time. You wont get the same benefits as a full coil over suspension, but if you dont track the car you wont mind too much. The reasoning against only getting springs is that if your gonna blow $600 bucks on install, you might as well pay another $700 for the shocks.

Do you recommend just saving a couple hundred more and getting the entire pss9 suspension?

I found it for 1795 I think...

Yes, it may take longer, but it will be done. For good. I learned half assin things just makes you do it over and over again, in the end, costing more than it would have originally. Plus, by selling your whole suspension instead of just your stock springs your likely to have more buyers.

I would like to lower mine, but the roadways where I travel just won't allow it. Instead I added 7x14mm spacers and the look is improved. The wider stance creates a bit of an illusion so it's not a bad compromise . . .

http://members.cox.net/rewound/7x14space.jpg

Do you have spacers on the front also? Hows the cornering with them on now?

7mm on front, 14mm on rear, I haven't been able to tell much difference from standard as far as cornering goes. Probably a slight amount of improvement just because of the slightly wider track. I think it looks a lot better though, which was my main goal.

Hi,

One drawback to using only springs to lower the car is that the geometry is not preserved. You will increase the negative camber which will increase the car's tire-eating abilities...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Any drawbacks to using spacers like lwc did?

Hi,

Generally not, but there are a couple of caveats.

• Not all spacers are created equal. Be sure to use quality hub-centric spacers. The cheaper ones are often not machined to exacting tolerances and vary considerably. This can induce a tire imbalance. Also, they must be installed carefully, it's very easy to introduce some variation just by installing them willy-nilly.
  
  Keep the spacers to no more than 17mm. Going wider effectively softens the Spring Rates because you are essentially lengthening the lower control arm and it's angles. Too wide, and again, you induce greater negative camber. It will also change your steering response at the limit, something which may cause someone unfamiliar with the feel to improperly respond with negative consequences.
  
  Finally, whenever doing any work to the Wheels, Tires, Suspension, you need to get a full 4-wheel alignment. Alignment isn't as permanent as many people seem to think. Hit one good bump or Pothole, and you'll likely throw it off. Everytime I auto-x my cars or track my formula vee, the alignment is altered. This needs to be done much more often than many people think to remain spot on. On a Street Car, it should be done annually, or whenever doing any work to the areas mentioned above.

Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99